Liberals, truly the most delusional

[Aftermath9716]

I'm a millennial I don't know shit about cost of insurance history LOL just know my parents told me life was easier back then. I believe this has to do with the value of currency going down, demand for healthcare rising due to the growing elderly population and shrinking workforce.

If you're paying $150/month for a single person without family, then yes it is a heck of a deal. However your employer is probably kicking in another $300-500/month to make up the difference and that's money that could be going into your pocket.

If you were like me who only went to the doctor 3 times in a span of 25 years for very minor stuff that's a huge waste of money. However when I first started working after college back in the early mid 90's, my insurance was so cheap and drug prices were cheap to the point it cost practically nothing to go to the doctor and get a script, I was getting a year supply of drugs that cost $12, today those same exact drugs cost $800/yr.

The reason everything cost so much today is that people working in the healthcare industry are demanding top dollar for even the most piddly of services. They have armies of lawyers lobbying to make sure this racket isn't going anywhere soon.

 

[Aftermath9716]

If you're paying $150/month for a single person without family, then yes it is a heck of a deal. However your employer is probably kicking in another $300-500/month to make up the difference and that's money that could be going into your pocket.

If you were like me who only went to the doctor 3 times in a span of 25 years for very minor stuff that's a huge waste of money. However when I first started working after college back in the early mid 90's, my insurance was so cheap and drug prices were cheap to the point it cost practically nothing to go to the doctor and get a script, I was getting a year supply of drugs that cost $12, today those same exact drugs cost $800/yr.

The reason everything cost so much today is that people working in the healthcare industry are demanding top dollar for even the most piddly of services. They have armies of lawyers lobbying to make sure this racket isn't going anywhere soon.

 

[Uncle Ted]

I'm a millennial I don't know shit about cost of insurance history LOL just know my parents told me life was easier back then. I believe this has to do with the value of currency going down, demand for healthcare rising due to the growing elderly population and shrinking workforce.

It's not just that. Your grandparents could easily obtain employment that lasted their entire lives. They retired with pensions, higher education was dirt cheap if they wanted to go or send their kids. However higher education wasn't required to get a decent middle class job so these guys went to work straight out of highschool.

Employers loyalty to workers was gone by 2000, some of them held out until almost 2010, today employers will fire you without giving it a single thought.

This gig income mentality for younger people is gonna end in disaster because as you age you will slow down and become obsolete. You're young, strong, fast, and healthy right now. Wait until you're 50 trying to play musical chairs staying employed when a twenty something can do the same thing you can for less money and hassle.

When I was a kid growing up in the early 70's and 80's there were no men sitting on the couch. Most men worked with lots of overtime, six days a week. After NAFTA kicked in, these guys were on the couch with a beer in their hands watching TV.

 

[flenser]

It's only a matter of time before Republicans jump on the universal basic income bandwagon. What other choice will they have if technology inevitably leads to mass unemployment.

Elon Musk is already talking about it. For example, he predicts Tesla will single-handedly destroy the trucking industry and related professions with its self-driving AI and self-learning technology. Some estimates suggest 15% of the overall work force will be unemployed as a result of this alone.

https://www.fastcompany.com/4030576/elon-musk-says-automation-will-make-a-universal-basic-income-necessary-soon

Is Universal Basic Income Possible?

The debate over universal basic income is being renewed by industry leaders and billionaires like Elon Musk.

www.ibtimes.com

All the buggy whip makers must have starved to death.

Edit: Agree with the Republican stance, though. I've come to the conclusion the real difference between Democrats and Republicans is about two years.

 

[Hughinn]

All of the anarchist writers that I follow are either dead or most of them are 70+.

I primarily enjoy reading anti-left, anarcho-primitive, anti-civilization, ecophilosophy. It's a very narrow branch of Anarchism that probably most don't even know exists. Most of the better publications come out of Oregon which makes sense simply because it's a region full of people that live in a sort of natural paradise and at the same time have access to higher education to learn the craft of writing.

I don't follow skinny jean wearing hipsters, I have nothing to do with communism or radical left.

I'm sure there are people in Appalachia that have a lot to say about the beautiful place they live, they have their own culture and way of living. However they don't spend much time writing about it.

Just like when I grew up hunting, trapping, fishing. My father who was a taxidermist didn't write about his experiences, I don't know that he could have even if he wanted and he was raised as a hillbilly.

And our healthcare system is broken, the cost is grossly out of touch with the clients ability to pay. Sick people often are on the lower rung of the economic ladder. If you're going to offer services, but force people into bankruptcy then what's the point, something has to give.

If the government is going to create laws that protect hospitals ability to collect payment, creating an avenue for restitution. Then you have no choice, but to figure out a way to either provide the same service for the patients or let the hospital/clinic forfeit the ability to collect by doing away with the laws that protect service providers.

If you want people to afford Healthcare easier, then why not make sure the jobs pay more, and there are enough of them to go around so they can afford it.?

Anarchist? You are no anarchist. And you've obviously never spent much time in Oregon.

 

[Hughinn]

I agree there's a long list of middle men that are taking a cut that need to be removed from the equation. However these groups are fantastic lobbyist, so they aren't going without a fight.

As it is right now though, the high cost of healthcare forces Americans to go without, to tough it out and suffer in silence. If they ever open the flood gates to free healthcare in America you would see a huge wave of patients desperately seeking service.

America for the most part is a big lie, everyone outside of this country thinks we're all rich, they never see the 50% of this nation that are completely sustained on credit, one payment short from living in a dumpster.

Western Europe seems to have faced reality and admitted that the Right Wing Conservative mantra of doing everything on your own doesn't work in the real world. It's a great slogan, but that's all it is.

A few posts back, your dumb ass called for more middlemen and bean counters,, your solution was literally to make more middleman.

Now you say too many middleman are the problem?

And you're an anarchist crying for more government help, because the idea of people doing things on thier own, for themselves doesn't work?

Dude, you are a grotesque of inconceivable stupidity. I sincerely hope nobody is dumb enough to listen to you, or buy the bull rap you talk.

 

[Aftermath9716]

If you want people to afford Healthcare easier, then why not make sure the jobs pay more, and there are enough of them to go around so they can afford it.?

Anarchist? You are no anarchist. And you've obviously never spent much time in Oregon.

Unless we can advance healthcare tech to that of something like star wars where robots fix you right up I don't see how healthcare premiums can drop, US healthcare is not really capitalist if so many old, poor, and chronically sick patient will die on the streets while the young and healthy premiums will drop drastically as they will no longer be forced to cover their costs like in the past.

 

[Aftermath9716]

Now we can discuss the moral of that issue but it's a two way street, if the old and sick don't get drop then the burden will be place on the working, young, and healthy.

 

[Hughinn]

The problem with those on the Right is that they don't take the time to explore other opinions.

Right Wing media is very skewed and biased. I'm not saying that left wing outlets aren't, but damn. You can't expect to get an entire world view from such a narrow source as the few right wing idiots that spew the same talking points over and over.

We all now what the Right Wing objective is, it's to keep the rich filthy rich without question.

It's to keep you from looking into a system that has allowed you to become so brainwashed, that you actually enjoy and relish the sadism the rich are serving you up with their bought off politicians.

When the Covid 19 stimulus allowed Billionaires in this country to pocket $435 billion dollars from tax payers, or from money just printed up. You won't see your Right Wing news sources ever disparage that, but if you get $1200 they shit themselves because these greedy rich fucks want that money in their pockets as well.

The Rich can never get enough, they have a screw loose and so Right Wing media exist and is wholly created and owned by them to make sure you buy into a political philosophy that is obviously working against you.

You don't want welfare, but can't the right wing brainwashed pull their heads out of their ass and realize the far right loves golden parachute welfare for the rich.

Lol. Right bud. Because the "right" has a monopoly on media huh? And the billionaire class, wall street, silicon Valley, park Avenue , Washington DC and Hollywood, ie. America's richest and most powerful places full of it's wealthiest and most priveledged people, are all such right wing controlled strongholds right? And the dozens of mainstream media outlets are all owned by right wing billionaires and right leaning big tech executives huh? And those darn right wing billionaire tech giants censoring other opinions that aren't right wing huh?

Man, the crap you say would be funny, if it wasn't just so plain stupid.



Man, I really hope you ain't this ignorant in real life.

 

[Hughinn]

The problem

Unless we can advance healthcare tech to that of something like star wars where robots fix you right up I don't see how healthcare premiums can drop, US healthcare is not really capitalist if so many old, poor, and chronically sick patient will die on the streets while the young and healthy premiums will drop drastically as they will no longer be forced to cover their costs like in the past.

Isn't as much the cost of Healthcare, as it is the decline of wages and means to pay by the American working class.

Don't listen to these idiots on here.

American Healthcare is more expensive than most in the world, but its also the most advanced and cutting edge. The problem is the working class cannot afford to buy it. Because the decline of wages and rise of cost of living.

It would make more sense to spend the trillions we dump into building the middle east and start building the mid west.

Stop sending manufacturing jobs to china so they can ship cheap good here to sell broke unemployed people.

It's not hard to see. Unless your a hypocritical idiot like that Ted guy.

 

[Aftermath9716]

By 2030, all baby boomers will be older than age 65. This will expand the size of the older population so that 1 in every 5 residents will be retirement age.

Debt is being cause by the old population.

The problem

Isn't as much the cost of Healthcare, as it is the decline of wages and means to pay by the American working class.

Don't listen to these idiots on here.

American Healthcare is more expensive than most in the world, but its also the most advanced and cutting edge. The problem is the working class cannot afford to buy it. Because the decline of wages and rise of cost of living.

It would make more sense to spend the trillions we dump into building the middle east and start building the mid west.

Stop sending manufacturing jobs to china so they can ship cheap good here to sell broke unemployed people.

It's not hard to see. Unless your a hypocritical idiot like that Ted guy.

Wages didn't decline for me !


Your wages are in the stock market lol

 

[Aftermath9716]

15 20 25 30 dollar an hour it doesn't matter dollar always loses it's value so cost of living goes up.

 

[Aftermath9716]

Stock market it good for pension funds but not good for working people who don't invest and are poor xD

 

[Hughinn]

I'm a millennial I don't know shit about cost of insurance history LOL just know my parents told me life was easier back then. I believe this has to do with the value of currency going down, demand for healthcare rising due to the growing elderly population and shrinking workforce.

You're on the right track. But it's not a shrinking workforce. It's a growing workforce and decline of American jobs.

 

[Hughinn]

By 2030, all baby boomers will be older than age 65. This will expand the size of the older population so that 1 in every 5 residents will be retirement age.

Debt is being cause by the old population.

Wages didn't decline for me !
View attachment 138564

Your wages are in the stock market lol

Good for you.

But, you know what a mean. And you know what I'm saying is true.

 

[flenser]

Unless we can advance healthcare tech to that of something like star wars where robots fix you right up I don't see how healthcare premiums can drop, US healthcare is not really capitalist if so many old, poor, and chronically sick patient will die on the streets while the young and healthy premiums will drop drastically as they will no longer be forced to cover their costs like in the past.

You're half right. The cost is set by supply and demand as are all things, but due to city, state and federal regulations supply is artificially limited. Hospital beds, doctors, nurses, drugs, insurance, etc. All of them are heavily regulated such that they demand a much higher price than would otherwise be the case, and provide services that rarely fit the patient's medical and economic needs.

As long as supply is artificially limited, prices will be artificially high, and government subsides will drive them up even higher. In the absence of the artificially limited supply the medical industry would have to lower its prices to be competitive. That would make health care more affordable to more people even while those services became more effective and more advanced.

Try comparing computer prices and technology from the 90 to now with the same medical services over the same period. What you will see is limited advancement and rapidly rising prices of the regulated medical industry compared to the not so regulated computer industry. And that's with the computer industry providing massive decreases in medical service overhead costs and increases in its capabilities.

 

[Hughinn]

You're half right. The cost is set by supply and demand as are all things, but due to city, state and federal regulations supply is artificially limited. Hospital beds, doctors, nurses, drugs, insurance, etc. All of them are heavily regulated such that they demand a much higher price than would otherwise be the case, and provide services that rarely fit the patient's medical and economic needs.

As long as supply is artificially limited, prices will be artificially high, and government subsides will drive them up even higher. In the absence of the artificially limited supply the medical industry would have to lower its prices to be competitive. That would make health care more affordable to more people even while those services became more effective and more advanced.

Try comparing computer prices and technology from the 90 to now with the same medical services over the same period. What you will see is limited advancement and rapidly rising prices of the regulated medical industry compared to the not so regulated computer industry. And that's with the computer industry providing massive decreases in medical service overhead costs and increases in its capabilities.

In other words : the industry as whole is grossly over regulated and horribly mismanaged by government. Which is obvious to anybody as truly a problem.

And has logical people scratching their heads in astonishment that so many idiots are calling for - more or even total government management and regulation.

 

[Test_Subject]

American Healthcare is more expensive than most in the world, but its also the most advanced and cutting edge.

It's the most expensive in the world.

If you look at the actual numbers, instead of, again, using talking points, you'll see that the US is not the "most advanced" healthcare system by any means. When it comes to research, absolutely, the US is a top performer -- but that doesn't translate to quality of care, necessarily.

[URL='https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-age-standardized-disability-adjusted-life-year-daly-rate-per-100000-population-2017

That site lists some of the metrics taken from OECD studies. Read through it. If you follow the source link there are a ton of other metrics not used in the article. The US is not the clear winner by any means. In fact, you're dead last in access to care (somewhat important when you don't want to die) out of all 37 member countries

The title of this thread is pretty ironic, seeing as the person who posted it is displaying a high level if delusion.

Stop buying what the lobbies are selling you, man.

 

[flenser]

It's the most expensive in the world.

If you look at the actual numbers, instead of, again, using talking points, you'll see that the US is not the "most advanced" healthcare system by any means. When it comes to research, absolutely, the US is a top performer -- but that doesn't translate to quality of care, necessarily.

[URL='https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-age-standardized-disability-adjusted-life-year-daly-rate-per-100000-population-2017

That site lists some of the metrics taken from OECD studies. Read through it. If you follow the source link there are a ton of other metrics not used in the article. The US is not the clear winner by any means. In fact, you're dead last in access to care (somewhat important when you don't want to die) out of all 37 member countries

The title of this thread is pretty ironic, seeing as the person who posted it is displaying a high level if delusion.

Stop buying what the lobbies are selling you, man.

I agree with a lot of that, but the data you posted needs to be adjusted for obesity which is extremely high in the US and greatly impacts mortality before, during and after treatment.

 

[Test_Subject]

I agree with a lot of that, but the data you posted needs to be adjusted for obesity which is extremely high in the US and greatly impacts mortality before, during and after treatment.

That's definitely a consideration. Some of the metrics, such as lower 30-day mortality rates from heart attacks and strokes when compared to other member nations, potentially reflect a proficiency in treating obesity-related conditions.

But absolutely, fat people on average have more health issues and are harder to treat.