Comprehensive Guide to PCT

At what time after PCT should you check bloodwork to see if hormone levels came back to pre cycle?

I finished my PCT 6 days ago and I feel like shit. I used nolva 20/20/10/10 enclomiphene 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25
Knees still have dry ache, no drive, workouts are terrible. Is this to be expected? Wondering if this is right time to get bloodwork.
If you are limited to the number tests you can do I would suggest waiting at least 4-6 weeks for testing used to try and determine if a recovery has been made. Your body is going to take a certain amount of time to reach a balance.

With that said, if you have extra testing available to see what you could be dealing with at this moment, it’s not going to hurt. Personally I would just think 6 days after ceasing pct meds is too soon to know where you are at as far as recovery goes. So if you do decide to test now because of your side effects, testing again at a later date would be important to determine recovery.
 
If you are limited to the number tests you can do I would suggest waiting at least 4-6 weeks for testing used to try and determine if a recovery has been made. Your body is going to take a certain amount of time to reach a balance.

With that said, if you have extra testing available to see what you could be dealing with at this moment, it’s not going to hurt. Personally I would just think 6 days after ceasing pct meds is too soon to know where you are at as far as recovery goes. So if you do decide to test now because of your side effects, testing again at a later date would be important to determine recovery.
understood. just boogled by the lack of wanting to workout or having drive too as I never experienced this before. Also the achy joints is probably the worse as I cannot squat or leg press. Was concerned it could be low e2 but even if i got bloodwork to confirm, what else could I do.

Seems from what I read is to wait it out. LOL i should of never came off
 
Comprehensive Guide to PCT - Revised 04-05-2014 at 23:15 GMT

Proper PCT Protocol


PCT should only begin when the body is in an environment to stimulate LH and FSH secretion. In the case of testosterone this environment is achieved once TT begins to dip below pre cycle TT levels. Therefore not only to judge when pct has been successful but also to determine when pct should begin Pre-cycle blood levels should be taken.

How do we determine when TT levels fall below baseline aside from experiencing side effects or getting blood drawn every week?

As we know TT is directly related with the amount of exogenous testosterone we administer. In TRT studies it is generally excepted that a 100mg shot of testosterone enanthate/cyp will put blood levels at around 800-900ng/dl.
We can thus use this conversion with decent accuracy to judge at what mg TT levels will fall below baseline. (The conversion ratio somewhat lessens as doses increase therefore we should air on the side of caution when determining the optimal test mg target)

For example if pre-cycle levels are 500ng/dl then PCT should only begin when exogenous test falls to roughly 50mg. This will put TT in the 400-500ng/dl range and thus in a state where HPTA stimulation of FSH and LH release begins to become possible.

Now that we understand how to determine optimal Mg range of ex Test for HPTA restoration we must now find the length of time required to reach said levels after the last injection. To do this we must first understand Half lives of the varying esters and the variation they can have with each individual's physiology. Some users metabolize AAS more quickly or more slowly than others therefore we can only identify an average. Ill give one practical example of the commonly used ester Enanthate.

Enanthate has a half life of 5 days +/- 2.5 days (I will use a 7 day calculation to air on the side of caution)

A 12wk cycle of test e at 500mg per week will put ex Test at around 1000mg
(500mg+250+125+62.5+31.25 etc = 1000mg)

This means it will take 5 half lives to reach ex test at or below 50mg therefore time between last injection and start of PCT is 35 days.

It would be worthwhile to determine your own metabolization rate by taking a blood test after the 4th AVERAGE half life has passed. (In this case it would be at 20 days) Based on TT levels at this point you can determine YOUR half life.

Now that we understand how to accurately calculate a PCT start date based on our own physiology, what should an effective pct consist of?

HCG may be used during cycle and is consider to be a better option by many. There is a bill Roberts article that you may refer to on the subject. He suggests 500iu EOD throughout the cycle. If you did not use HCG during your cycle, here is a variation of Dr. Scally's PCT protocol for AAS users (his experience and expertise speaks for itself)

HCG 2000iu E3D for 14 days before pct start date

PCT start

1-35 Clomiphene 50mg morning and night
1-45 Tamoxifen 20mg morning and night

1-45 low dose of Exemestane 12.5mg E3D (Optional)

The combination of Clomid and Nolva has been shown to provide better results than when compared alone. Clomid has a slightly different MOA than Nolva And Torem if you must use Torem in your PCT it should be a substitute for Nolva not Clomid. An equivalent dose of Torem for 40mg Nolva would be 120mg.

This PCT will give you the best chance at achieving and maintaining pre cycle TT levels rapidly after cessation of treatment for all AAS cycles under 25 weeks of suppression. PCT requirements vary depending on the user and mainly length of shutdown.

Post pct bloods should be taken approximately 2-3 weeks after cessation of treatment to ensure restoration has been achieved without further aid from SERM's. If restoration has not been achieved restart this PCT or better yet, CONSULT A PHYSICIAN!

Switching To Short Chain Esters

A largely overlooked factor that can greatly aid in maintaining gains, reducing HPTA shutdown length or extending a cycle without lengthening HPTA shutdown is switching from Long ester AAS to short ester AAS toward the end of the cycle. When done correctly this reduces the amount of time that users must wait to start PCT and/or increases the amount of time TT levels stay supra-physiological.

Here is a practical example of how to perform a switch to Test P from a regular 12 week cycle of Test E allowing us to extend it to 16 weeks. (In both cases length of shutdown is still 17 weeks)

First we must calculate our pct start date. For this example we will be using 750mg test e a week. With Ex test at about 1500 5 half lives have to pass to reach below 50mg. A PCT start date of 35 days is again warranted. Therefore we will start test p injections 35 days or 5 weeks before the end of the cycle.

Week 1-11 Test e 750mg
Week 13 Test p 400mg
Week 14 Test p 600mg
Week 15-16 Test p 700mg

Test p half life 2 days +/- 18hours (I will use a 2.5 day calculation)

PCT start 7 days

Tapering the test p injections upward in this fashion will ensure that TT levels do not spike dramatically when the shorter more quickly metabolized half life is introduced.

As we can see This will apply the same length of shutdown to the HPTA (17 weeks in both cases) but you will be able to extend the amount of time TT levels remain supra physiological.

Or if you would like you can use this method to shorten HPTA suppression length by removing the extra weeks of injections and starting test p from weeks 8-12. (13 weeks of shutdown instead of 17)
That was awesome! Thanks for the detailed info.
 
alright well I want to start with thanking @ApeShitFuckJacked for creating the clearest/best layout of a pct protocol I have ever seen. I even knew most of the stuff on it individually but seeing it all together like that made it so much more clear in my own head. Super valuable stuff.

I am wondering what you guys would suggest for a mid cycle HCG "awakening bump" if you will. I keep my cycles very low and kinda take the minimum effective dose route. Partially for health reasons but mostly because i am teetering on the edge of hair loss so i plan to stay very mild until it HAS to be shaved. Then I will probably be turning up the dial a lot more. haha. Anyway the plan was 300/week test e and 40/day anavar. I waited a bit to introduce the var but about 12 weeks in I had a major life event that complete turned my world upside down. Long story short since, up until recently, I couldn't be constant with the gym and diet the way I wanted to, to get the most out of the compounds, so I decided to come down to 200/wk and no var. Kinda like a cruise of sorts just until I could get back to my normal life and normal routines. My testicular size/weight have been mostly ok indicating I wasn't completely turned off. Given this cycle got unintentionally extended about 5-6 weeks and noticing a slow reduction in testes size i was thinking about a mid cycle "HCG wake up alarm" lol. One does this seem like a good idea and how would you guys go about it? 2500/2500 a couple days apart, 500 eod, etc etc. Thanks for any input you guys may have ahead of time.
 
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