Comprehensive Guide to PCT

Discussion in 'Steroid Post Cycle Therapy and ASIH Treatment' started by ApeShitFuckJacked, Apr 3, 2014.

  1. The ole man

    The ole man Member

    Very good explanation.. I may have to reread it a few times to really grasp the math, but I think I got a pretty good idea tho from this article..
     
  2. The ole man

    The ole man Member

    Read the whole thread... Was some great info
     
  3. daniboy

    daniboy Member

    Hello guys I'm doing tbol at 50mg a day for 6 weeks and then var at 50mg Ed for 4 weeks. Drinking cranberry juice in the morning together with taurine and Liv 52ds plus multivitamin and 3 caps a day of Omega 3. I'm not looking for advice on the cycle itself I know I'll get blasted with you should use test and tren , or use test as base and then add this that and the other. I'm 29, years old 105kg at 191m and look like I'm on gear although I haven't touched it yet, this is my passion and I've thought long and hard about dipping in with an oral only cycle to get my feet wet. Needels are not an option this summer. body fat is I would say 12 to 17 percent, been training since 21 with consistency, diet is clean and regimented. My question is pct, should it be hcg, clomid and nolva? Only clomid and nolva? When to start it (taking into account I will be using var when I do start it ) dosing and length. Thanks in advance!
     
  4. picholas

    picholas Member

    You should quit the oral only cycle and start PCT...
     
  5. daniboy

    daniboy Member

    The fuck does that mean, listen I'm saying Ill be doing the oral only cycle, I want advice on the pct, dosing of it and length that's all. I'm not after the if your not going to inject stay away from aas. That's patronizing and implies that I've done no research or reading. Got no problem injecting the hcg, if you can contribute on my issue through knowledge please do so tho:)
     
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  6. picholas

    picholas Member

    It means what the fuck it says. If you did ample research you would know better than to do an oral only cycle. Especially for 10 weeks. RIP liver.

    If you are set on doing this dumb cycle - 4 weeks is the norm, 6 max.

    Orals also shut down your body’s ability to produce it's own testosterone. (That's why everyone recommends taking exogenous test as base you dumb fuck)

    Good thing PCT is all pills you big baby.

    And a slin in the belly is a big difference than injecting intramuscular.
     
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  7. daniboy

    daniboy Member

    i may have not made it clear that i would take the tbol for 6 weeks at 50mg day and then the Anavar for 4 weeks at 40 to 50mg a day. i use to buy vit b12 in spain and inject intramuscular but got the exgf to do it, i dont feel i can inject myself tho, period. yes ideally id be doing test tren or soemthing, but its not where im at, this will be my first experience with aas and just want to add an edge to my body, but want to make sure i kick start my natural test production after shutdown during cycle.i was just asking about dosing of nolva and clomid and if hcg was a must or not, i also mentioned id be running liv52ds milk thistle cranberry juice and keeping my omega 3 fatty acids on the high, im not an expert advice is welcome
     
  8. picholas

    picholas Member

    You are saying "then" meaning following, not with.

    Meaning:
    Weeks 1-6: Tbol @ 50mg ED
    Weeks 6-10: Anavar @ 40/50mg ED (pick one...not a range that's 70mg a week difference)

    That's still 10 WEEKS of orals. Which is a no-no. You could run Tbol+Anavar together for 4-6 weeks. (still fucking dumb)

    Everyone is going to tell you the same thing. You don't start with anything other then Test. Forget everything else. Just Test. That's where everyone's journey into AAS should start.

    If you're saying "i dont feel i can inject myself tho, period" then this isn't the lifestyle for you. Real real dumb to have the exgf do it unless she is a medically trained professional you should always self inject.

    Look, you're just full of bad decisions.

    Oral only cycles
    No test
    Letting other people inject you

    AI's and shutdowns are the least of your worries. You're not going to be making any Test nor receiving any exogenous Test for 10 weeks... You want advice, you got it. Sorry it's not the advice you wanted to hear. No one is going to co-sign that crazy "cycle" for you. I wouldn't recommend any pct after that because I wouldn't recommend you do that in the first place.
     
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  9. daniboy

    daniboy Member

    sound and good advice i must say , thanks for the lengthy answer, anyone with common sense would agree, so there is no oral cycle worth it then
     
    The ole man likes this.
  10. picholas

    picholas Member

    Like I said, you can. There are people that have taken dbol oral only. But the amount you would have to take to compare with test would be EXTREMELY taxing on your liver. Even with all the stuff you're going to be doing to "protect" it.

    You will retain a lot of water (10-20lbs) and if you're trying to bulk up you will initially be happy with the results. Then when you stop, you will struggle to keep ANY of your gains, and gyno can be a big issue.

    Get over your fear of needles, it really doesn't hurt that bad.

    8-12 weeks
    500mg weekly of Test E/C
    1" 23 gauge.
    Inject 2-3x a week however you split it up
    arimidex/aromasin for sides

    Try it out.
     
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  11. daniboy

    daniboy Member

    i get it, and again your spot on regarding the correct way of doing things, i dont have the cojones to stick the intramuscular, i have the cojones to go balls deep at the gym and have made this a passion, so now you know that im an ass thats scared of pointy things and not ready to take the jump with them serious things, what pct would you run on an oral only cycle that lasted 6 weeks, btw my instagram is ... can pm it as a baseline of what i look like right now
     
  12. picholas

    picholas Member

    The problem isn't the PCT.

    I'll put it this way.

    testosterone is what lets your body build muscle. When you use any steroid (oral or inject) it will suppress your natural testosterone. Then after your cycle ends you go through a period after the cycle where your natural testosterone levels are still suppressed.

    When they get around the normal level, that is when PCT begins, PCT start time varies depending on what compound you are taking. Say you ran Anavar, assuming the half-life is only 9 hours you could start your PCT the next day.

    Here is where the issue is, you're not waiting for your testosterone levels to get back to a normal range because besides suppressing it for X amount of weeks, your own body's natural production is shut down. So until you kick-start it up again, or it starts up again naturally you don't have enough testosterone in your body. That is why everyone says either use testosterone as a base, or run just testosterone.

    So while you're waiting for your body to restart its natural production after an oral only cycle there won't be enough test to support your gains and you will probably actually lose more than what you started with.

    Wait until you aren't scared to inject. Or stay natural.

    Or try creatine.
     
  13. Wood4days

    Wood4days Member

    Hey guys so it seems I may have fucked my PCT cycle and my post cycle bloods shows very low hormones. I’ll attach image. IMG_5348.jpg

    16 week cycle
    test E 500/week
    Primo 800/week
    HCG 500iu/week

    PCT 21 days after last pin (this is where I fucked up) to early and I didn’t do blood before PCT big mistake.

    Now I need to start PCT over again and I was wondering do I start PCT clomid and nolvadex exactly as stated above right after last pin of 2000iu HCG or do I wait a few days after last pin of 2000iu HCG then start pct?

    Thanks everyone
     
  14. 5millionbucks

    5millionbucks Member

    And people say test has a 4-5 day half life. Imo with the primo on top(which I dont think is the big issues also could be fake primo and really test; can explain your recovery) You should of waited 4 weeks minimum and got bloods while running hcg imo; if your primo is fake(most is) that would been you were running 1.3 grams of test the whole time delaying the test from leaving your system giving it more time to really clear out. I guess do Scalley's pct approach if that doesn't work; someone on here did low dose HCG for like 16 weeks and recovered after that even though HCG shuts down your natural LH production by just mimicing it.
     
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  15. Wood4days

    Wood4days Member

    Cool thanks. Appreciate the feedback. Yea every source swears their primo is real but who knows.

    I will shoot up HCG 2000iu tomorrow and start from there. I’ll follow the PCT that is written out on here and see how it goes.

    Luckily I have 2 vials left of the HUCOG 5000iu

    So I have exactly enough HCG 10,000 iu to finish this PCT

    And a bunch of clomid and nolvadex left from previous cycle.
     
  16. Pied

    Pied Junior Member

    I run small amounts (20 mg every 3 days) nolva on cycle. I do a 2000iu a month of hcg last 3 months of cycle. My cycles normally consist of 3 weeks of dbol, 700mg test e or c(12 weeks) and 300mg Deca for 9weeks(front load). 2 weeks after last shot I start clomid. 4 weeks after last pin 5000iu HCG to jump start my nuts. Of course my bulking cycle is different than your cycle. Everyone has their own opinions on pct but everyone’s body reacts differently. I always run blood tests and have tried earlier and later start dates for pct but the above is what works for me. I’ve done the hcg weekly and my lab results were not as good as when I do the monthly ones. I feel using hcg first month is not necessary since your nuts won’t be affected too much by atrophy since your roids are just starting to kick in. Unless your running prop or sustanon. The d bol does does not jump start my cycle but not enough to start atrophy. Keep in mind your body will build up a tolerance to HCG and have diminishing returns the more frequently used. HCG in my opinion is much more important PCT time. For me monthly injections last 3 months of cycle work best. I suggest Deca since Primo is often fake.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  17. Eyeonly

    Eyeonly Junior Member

    at the begging of this post it gives an example of

    pct start
    1-35 clomiphene 50mg morning and night
    1-45 tamoxifen 20mg morning and night

    would this be more then enough for a 10wk cycle of teste @ 500wk with hcg during cycle
     
  18. kosp

    kosp Member

    I think It doesn´t take too long to leave the system in case of Cypionate T (500 mg per week, slightly more maybe)

    Blood work during the cycle: 147 nmol/L

    Blood work 14 days after the last pin: 20,7 nmol/L

    Calculation: -9 nmol/L aprox per day.

    Range reference Total testosterone nmol/L: 8,64 - 29

    pct starts at 18 days after the last pin for me.

    I did 10 weeks and a half, 21 injections of 1ml Tcyp and will run:

    nolvadex 40/20/20/20 + 2 days 20mg ED
    clomid 50 mg all the way ED
    Total PCT drugs 30 days.

    I did hcg the last 4 weeks of cycle. 1-3 400ui aprox 2xweek
    last week 1000ui x 2
     
  19. gainzoclock

    gainzoclock Member

    I think day 35 is beyond enough for a test e cycle since you're looking at a release of 1.5mg per day on day 35. Anything under 5mg/day release would be below average, which is day 18. Nothing wrong with waiting - might lose a bit more gains but higher chance of successful PCT.

    Source: Testosterone, aging, and the mind - Harvard Health

    upload_2020-1-18_21-30-45.png
     
  20. gainzoclock

    gainzoclock Member

    Not true.

    There is a great book on this called Anabolics. It's about 1000 pages and well worth the read. There are examples of multiple oral only cycles in there and the doses are quite low (under 25mg per day). This is not overly taxing on the liver and will put you far ahead of a natty.

    People get so excited to one-up the next guy with dosages, they forget how easy it is to gain with small amounts of gear as a beginner. 10mg of dbol for 6 weeks will make you gain muscle, yes! Run it with Liv52. You don't need 50mg or 100mg and anyone who says you do is probably bald. The amount of food you eat and the quality of it matters far more than how many grams and compounds you shove into your body.

    However, I do agree with picholas that you should get over your fear of needles and just use them. It's safer and you'll get more worthwhile gains. PCTing an oral only cycle for only a few pounds of muscle is a lot of work for small reward.

     
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