Comprehensive Guide to PCT

[Burrr]

I dont see any problem with tapering off the test, if it works for you.

Nolva will prevent gyno but it will not lower your estrogen, maybe aromasin would be more agreeable than the adex.

 

[Pied]

I dont see any problem with tapering off the test, if it works for you.

Nolva will prevent gyno but it will not lower your estrogen, maybe aromasin would be more agreeable than the adex.

Sorry I got clomid and nolvadex confused. Clomid I take every 3 days.

 

[Pied]

Dont know why you would taper the Test dose at week 11,just stopping it completely tapers it off.........if you stop test at week 10 you will still have a lot of test in your system at week 12.....

Dont know why you would taper the Test dose at week 11,just stopping it completely tapers it off.........if you stop test at week 10 you will still have a lot of test in your system at week 12.....

By tapering off the test weeks 11 and 12 I was told and believe it makes your nuts and test levels get back to normal faster combined with good pct. However, I've only ran about 8 cycles so I'm not as experienced as most of the members here.

 

[Burrr]

Clomid doesn't lower your estrogen either, just blocks it at some receptors.
Only an AI will prevent the excess test from convertingredients to estrogen

 

[MR10X]

By tapering off the test weeks 11 and 12 I was told and believe it makes your nuts and test levels get back to normal faster combined with good pct. However, I've only ran about 8 cycles so I'm not as experienced as most of the members here.

Tapering the dose instead of just stopping it at week 11 will take longer for you to recover because the test will be in your system longer...2 to 3 weeks longer

 

[Pied]

Okay thanks for the info. I guess I need to do more research instead of trusting what people are telling me. Glad I joined this forum. The information here is valuable. Especially since the information I was given was wrong.

 

[Weston]

There was so much information on this thread. I felt like some of the older posts were just people trolling because It seems hard to believe people would start a cycle without a pct plan. In scuba diving we have a saying that goes, "plan your dive and dive your plan". Seems like the same thing could be said here. "Plan your cycle and cycle your plan". There are some real horror stories in this thread that seem like they were just made up to scare people away from juicing.

 

[Wood4days]

Wait 500mg of test a week and you have to wait 35 days for PCT?

I was told you only need to wait 3 weeks after last pin to start PCT.

Hmmm

 

[Wood4days]

So if its a 12week cycle on test e, wait at least 21 days from the very last pin on week 12 to start pct ( taking clomid and nolva)?

That's what I was told. however the sticky said 35 days after last pin. or the 2nd week.

I would suggest doing bloodwork on the 3rd week a few days before PCT to check your test level.

 

[Impulse666]

So, according to the OP's post, given the PCT exemple, one would need 70 tabs of clomid (50mg) and 180 tabs of nolva (10mg), right?

The 50mg and 20mg in the morning and night, are half the dose right? The total would equal to 100mg and 40mg respectively...

 

[Wood4days]

So, according to the OP's post, given the PCT exemple, one would need 70 tabs of clomid (50mg) and 180 tabs of nolva (10mg), right?

The 50mg and 20mg in the morning and night, are half the dose right? The total would equal to 100mg and 40mg respectively...

Do you have to split it morning and night?

Can you just do 100 clomid and 40 nolvadex all in the morning? why split 50/20 morning and night?

 

[Impulse666]

Do you have to split it morning and night?

Can you just do 100 clomid and 40 nolvadex all in the morning? why split 50/20 morning and night?

So that the body can absorve it better?

My question is: Considering the example given by the OP, how much grams of each would one need to take daily?

Clomid - 100
Nolva - 40

Or:

Clomid - 100
Nolva- 20

?

 

[Wood4days]

So that the body can absorve it better?

My question is: Considering the example given by the OP, how much grams of each would one need to take daily?

Clomid - 100
Nolva - 40

Or:

Clomid - 100
Nolva- 20

?

I do

week 1-2
100 clomid
40 nolvadex

Week 3-4
50 clomid
20 nolvadex

 

[Impulse666]

I do

week 1-2
100 clomid
40 nolvadex

Week 3-4
50 clomid
20 nolvadex

Seems good enough. Thanks!

 

[Applenow]

Does this PCT look ok?

Test prop 30mg ED weeks 1-8
Tren ace 60mg ED 1-8

hcg 1000iu per week for 14 days before pct start date

Prami on hand
arimidex on hand

PCT 3 days after last pin
clomid 50/50/50/50
nolva 20/20/20/20

 

[Seanz]

This thread is pure gold! Ty op

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Danny27]

Comprehensive Guide to PCT - Revised 04-05-2014 at 23:15 GMT

Proper PCT Protocol

PCT should only begin when the body is in an environment to stimulate LH and FSH secretion. In the case of testosterone this environment is achieved once TT begins to dip below pre cycle TT levels. Therefore not only to judge when pct has been successful but also to determine when pct should begin Pre-cycle blood levels should be taken.

How do we determine when TT levels fall below baseline aside from experiencing side effects or getting blood drawn every week?

As we know TT is directly related with the amount of exogenous testosterone we administer. In TRT studies it is generally excepted that a 100mg shot of testosterone enanthate/cyp will put blood levels at around 800-900ng/dl.
We can thus use this conversion with decent accuracy to judge at what mg TT levels will fall below baseline. (The conversion ratio somewhat lessens as doses increase therefore we should air on the side of caution when determining the optimal test mg target)

For example if pre-cycle levels are 500ng/dl then PCT should only begin when exogenous test falls to roughly 50mg. This will put TT in the 400-500ng/dl range and thus in a state where HPTA stimulation of FSH and LH release begins to become possible.

Now that we understand how to determine optimal Mg range of ex Test for HPTA restoration we must now find the length of time required to reach said levels after the last injection. To do this we must first understand Half lives of the varying esters and the variation they can have with each individual's physiology. Some users metabolize AAS more quickly or more slowly than others therefore we can only identify an average. Ill give one practical example of the commonly used ester Enanthate.

Enanthate has a half life of 5 days +/- 2.5 days (I will use a 7 day calculation to air on the side of caution)

A 12wk cycle of test e at 500mg per week will put ex Test at around 1000mg
(500mg+250+125+62.5+31.25 etc = 1000mg)

This means it will take 5 half lives to reach ex test at or below 50mg therefore time between last injection and start of PCT is 35 days.

It would be worthwhile to determine your own metabolization rate by taking a blood test after the 4th AVERAGE half life has passed. (In this case it would be at 20 days) Based on TT levels at this point you can determine YOUR half life.

Now that we understand how to accurately calculate a PCT start date based on our own physiology, what should an effective pct consist of?

HCG may be used during cycle and is consider to be a better option by many. There is a bill Roberts article that you may refer to on the subject. He suggests 500iu EOD throughout the cycle. If you did not use HCG during your cycle, here is a variation of Dr. Scally's PCT protocol for AAS users (his experience and expertise speaks for itself)

HCG 2000iu E3D for 14 days before pct start date

PCT start

1-35 Clomiphene 50mg morning and night
1-45 Tamoxifen 20mg morning and night

1-45 low dose of Exemestane 12.5mg E3D (Optional)

The combination of Clomid and Nolva has been shown to provide better results than when compared alone. Clomid has a slightly different MOA than Nolva And Torem if you must use Torem in your PCT it should be a substitute for Nolva not Clomid. An equivalent dose of Torem for 40mg Nolva would be 120mg.

This PCT will give you the best chance at achieving and maintaining pre cycle TT levels rapidly after cessation of treatment for all AAS cycles under 25 weeks of suppression. PCT requirements vary depending on the user and mainly length of shutdown.

Post pct bloods should be taken approximately 2-3 weeks after cessation of treatment to ensure restoration has been achieved without further aid from SERM's. If restoration has not been achieved restart this PCT or better yet, CONSULT A PHYSICIAN!

Switching To Short Chain Esters

A largely overlooked factor that can greatly aid in maintaining gains, reducing HPTA shutdown length or extending a cycle without lengthening HPTA shutdown is switching from Long ester AAS to short ester AAS toward the end of the cycle. When done correctly this reduces the amount of time that users must wait to start PCT and/or increases the amount of time TT levels stay supra-physiological.

Here is a practical example of how to perform a switch to Test P from a regular 12 week cycle of Test E allowing us to extend it to 16 weeks. (In both cases length of shutdown is still 17 weeks)

First we must calculate our pct start date. For this example we will be using 750mg test e a week. With Ex test at about 1500 5 half lives have to pass to reach below 50mg. A PCT start date of 35 days is again warranted. Therefore we will start test p injections 35 days or 5 weeks before the end of the cycle.

Week 1-11 Test e 750mg
Week 13 Test p 400mg
Week 14 Test p 600mg
Week 15-16 Test p 700mg

Test p half life 2 days +/- 18hours (I will use a 2.5 day calculation)

PCT start 7 days

Tapering the test p injections upward in this fashion will ensure that TT levels do not spike dramatically when the shorter more quickly metabolized half life is introduced.

As we can see This will apply the same length of shutdown to the HPTA (17 weeks in both cases) but you will be able to extend the amount of time TT levels remain supra physiological.

Or if you would like you can use this method to shorten HPTA suppression length by removing the extra weeks of injections and starting test p from weeks 8-12. (13 weeks of shutdown instead of 17)

I am struggling to totally understand PCT I understand I need my testerone levels back to normal but I have also been told to take hcg and aromasin while on my cycle one for gyno one for my ''testies'' but could I just take the simpler option and run a PCT after and be quite safe ? A answer would be great as I'm really unsure what to do. Thank you

 

[fndwggn]

Comprehensive Guide to PCT - Revised 04-05-2014 at 23:15 GMT

This means it will take 5 half lives to reach ex test at or below 50mg therefore time between last injection and start of PCT is 35 days.

HCG may be used during cycle and is consider to be a better option by many. There is a bill Roberts article that you may refer to on the subject. He suggests 500iu EOD throughout the cycle. If you did not use HCG during your cycle, here is a variation of Dr. Scally's PCT protocol for AAS users (his experience and expertise speaks for itself)

HCG 2000iu E3D for 14 days before pct start date

PCT start
1-35 Clomiphene 50mg morning and night
1-45 Tamoxifen 20mg morning and night
1-45 low dose of Exemestane 12.5mg E3D (Optional)

Thanks for all the info. I am nearing the end of my first cycle and have a couple of questions. I did have a plan, but the more you read (as a beginner), the more you start to doubt/question. I am posting my bloods in hopes someone might look at them and suggest anything (if necessary). Also question about your PCT suggestions.

For PCT, I have often heard ~14 days for test e. If I am waiting 35 days (or 14), I just continue my AI during that time and then switch to PCT? I would think about tapering AI as test levels are dropping? I am on exemstane 12.5 ED (explained below).

Also, I was thinking I would start HCG during the last weeks of my cycle--from reading suggestions. Sounds like I should wait on that as well? So, 20 days after last pin with AI only, and then HCG 2000iu E3D for 14 days, then run the PCT?

Some basic info: 500mg test e per week (2x250). The mid-cycle bloods 48 hours after my first pin of week 6. I am taking exemestane at 12.5mg/day. I am erring on the side of caution here because I have a little gyno from a shitty PH cycle I started and then ditched last year. Hoping that my est. levels aren't too low as a result of this dosage.

Also, should I get a lipid test--I forgot to order it, could still get one done now if it's important?

Thanks for the help!

 

[fndwggn]

Comprehensive Guide to PCT - Revised 04-05-2014 at 23:15 GMT

HCG 2000iu E3D for 14 days before pct start date

Thanks for all the info. I am just about to start my HCG protocol. Are you mixing 2000iu of HCG per mL of bac water? Or should it be more diluted?

 

[Dogtown2017]

Awesome info on pct!!