Comprehensive Guide to PCT

[BirdieNumNum]

Yea Ive seen mate. I do have hcg and clomid at home gonna get some nova too. But still gonna see if my body can sort itself out given enough time first

 

[Burrr]

Jay, blood work is always a good idea. You can see if your pituitary is still spitting out LH and FSH, and just what kind of test level you have .

 

[BirdieNumNum]

Yea Im gonna get my test levels checked again the try get referred to an endo. Is there another way for blood work without having to see a specialist ?

 

[Burrr]

labsmd.com, do it yourself blood work

 

[BirdieNumNum]

Thanks, im from uk can i still get it checked through that?

 

[cflow69]

Very helpful...some great notes to take in doc !!!

 

[Shortfuse11]

Comprehensive Guide to PCT - Revised 04-05-2014 at 23:15 GMT

Proper PCT Protocol

PCT should only begin when the body is in an environment to stimulate LH and FSH secretion. In the case of testosterone this environment is achieved once TT begins to dip below pre cycle TT levels. Therefore not only to judge when pct has been successful but also to determine when pct should begin Pre-cycle blood levels should be taken.

How do we determine when TT levels fall below baseline aside from experiencing side effects or getting blood drawn every week?

As we know TT is directly related with the amount of exogenous testosterone we administer. In TRT studies it is generally excepted that a 100mg shot of testosterone enanthate/cyp will put blood levels at around 800-900ng/dl.
We can thus use this conversion with decent accuracy to judge at what mg TT levels will fall below baseline. (The conversion ratio somewhat lessens as doses increase therefore we should air on the side of caution when determining the optimal test mg target)

For example if pre-cycle levels are 500ng/dl then PCT should only begin when exogenous test falls to roughly 50mg. This will put TT in the 400-500ng/dl range and thus in a state where HPTA stimulation of FSH and LH release begins to become possible.

Now that we understand how to determine optimal Mg range of ex Test for HPTA restoration we must now find the length of time required to reach said levels after the last injection. To do this we must first understand Half lives of the varying esters and the variation they can have with each individual's physiology. Some users metabolize AAS more quickly or more slowly than others therefore we can only identify an average. Ill give one practical example of the commonly used ester Enanthate.

Enanthate has a half life of 5 days +/- 2.5 days (I will use a 7 day calculation to air on the side of caution)

A 12wk cycle of test e at 500mg per week will put ex Test at around 1000mg
(500mg+250+125+62.5+31.25 etc = 1000mg)

This means it will take 5 half lives to reach ex test at or below 50mg therefore time between last injection and start of PCT is 35 days.

It would be worthwhile to determine your own metabolization rate by taking a blood test after the 4th AVERAGE half life has passed. (In this case it would be at 20 days) Based on TT levels at this point you can determine YOUR half life.

Now that we understand how to accurately calculate a PCT start date based on our own physiology, what should an effective pct consist of?

HCG may be used during cycle and is consider to be a better option by many. There is a bill Roberts article that you may refer to on the subject. He suggests 500iu EOD throughout the cycle. If you did not use HCG during your cycle, here is a variation of Dr. Scally's PCT protocol for AAS users (his experience and expertise speaks for itself)

HCG 2000iu E3D for 14 days before pct start date

PCT start

1-35 Clomiphene 50mg morning and night
1-45 Tamoxifen 20mg morning and night

1-45 low dose of Exemestane 12.5mg E3D (Optional)

The combination of Clomid and Nolva has been shown to provide better results than when compared alone. Clomid has a slightly different MOA than Nolva And Torem if you must use Torem in your PCT it should be a substitute for Nolva not Clomid. An equivalent dose of Torem for 40mg Nolva would be 120mg.

This PCT will give you the best chance at achieving and maintaining pre cycle TT levels rapidly after cessation of treatment for all AAS cycles under 25 weeks of suppression. PCT requirements vary depending on the user and mainly length of shutdown.

Post pct bloods should be taken approximately 2-3 weeks after cessation of treatment to ensure restoration has been achieved without further aid from SERM's. If restoration has not been achieved restart this PCT or better yet, CONSULT A PHYSICIAN!

Switching To Short Chain Esters

A largely overlooked factor that can greatly aid in maintaining gains, reducing HPTA shutdown length or extending a cycle without lengthening HPTA shutdown is switching from Long ester AAS to short ester AAS toward the end of the cycle. When done correctly this reduces the amount of time that users must wait to start PCT and/or increases the amount of time TT levels stay supra-physiological.

Here is a practical example of how to perform a switch to Test P from a regular 12 week cycle of Test E allowing us to extend it to 16 weeks. (In both cases length of shutdown is still 17 weeks)

First we must calculate our pct start date. For this example we will be using 750mg test e a week. With Ex test at about 1500 5 half lives have to pass to reach below 50mg. A PCT start date of 35 days is again warranted. Therefore we will start test p injections 35 days or 5 weeks before the end of the cycle.

Week 1-11 Test e 750mg
Week 13 Test p 400mg
Week 14 Test p 600mg
Week 15-16 Test p 700mg

Test p half life 2 days +/- 18hours (I will use a 2.5 day calculation)

PCT start 7 days

Tapering the test p injections upward in this fashion will ensure that TT levels do not spike dramatically when the shorter more quickly metabolized half life is introduced.

As we can see This will apply the same length of shutdown to the HPTA (17 weeks in both cases) but you will be able to extend the amount of time TT levels remain supra physiological.

Or if you would like you can use this method to shorten HPTA suppression length by removing the extra weeks of injections and starting test p from weeks 8-12. (13 weeks of shutdown instead of 17)

This has been the single most informative read for me yet. I actually feel like with some practice with your formula I can correctly do my proper pct! Thank you.

 

[taco33150]

Can you take clomid at night before bed...? And take nolvadex in the morning?? If clomid makes you lathargic..
Hcg- would it be good to run it mid cycle , through the two week waiting period to start pct and using all through pct?
I've read a few pages back pct can run longer than 2 weeks , say a month? On the hcg dosage would 2x250iu a week sufficient? Seems there is no one fit for anyone, which I understand..

 

[add2016]

HI Guys

i am at last week of Test Enth

My Test Cycle: Test Enth 500mg/weekly for 13Week

and already have big gynomastia+Testical atrophy

so i need a good pct please include (hcg-nolvadex-clomid)



and what you think about this PCT please

after last Test Enth shot by 2weeks start HCG alone without nolvadex or clomid for 16day

HCG 5000ui every 4days for 16day (4shots in total)

-notice i can only from my country getting HCG 5000ui shots and wont split because its very expensive here

-and need to know please what is best HCG trademark there available here in my country only (Choriomon 5000ui / Profasi 5000ui / Pregnyl 5000ui ) what is best one of these and more effective ?

-Nolvadex and Clomid start together after last shot of HCG by 4days

Nolvadex 20mg for 45day

Clomid 100mg for 30day



so what you think please about this PCT is it good enough to fix this test atrophy and gyno or these better one ?

-and is it good idea to do not take hcg together with nolvadex and clomid ?

-and is 4days after last hcg shot to start clomid/nolvadex is enough period ?

-or its better if took all together in the same time ?



thank you for your time i hope a good answers please as fast possible

 

[Spooby]

Enjoy a pair of tits with that much hcg.

This made me start giggling uncontrollably

 

[Spooby]

@Hughesythelegend

Read through this entire thread and take note. It gets more detailed. Good luck!

 

[Hughesythelegend]

@Hughesythelegend

Read through this entire thread and take note. It gets more detailed. Good luck!

Thanks bro..

 

[Hanibal]

Good info! Thx. I have a question regarding when I come off cycle. Last 8 weeks of cycle will b just 100 prop eod and 50mg anavar a day. I am running .5 arimadex eod throughout cycle. Long cycle. Currently on 500 test cyp/ena/deconate/wk and 400 eq/week. Then in alil over a month into tren and prop and masteron then var. Test doses will actually b lowered to 300 a week once I get on tren. Tren not goin over 300/wk. So cycle will end with prop. Will do hcg for 2 weeks then clomid. Why use Nolvadex with clomid? How long after last shot of prop and last day of anavar should I start? I was thinkin 3 days UT should I wait alil more?

Also.. Why not just continue arimadex through pct with clomid..only at a smaller dose? Just curious...i never really got why they say clomid works better with Nolvadex that clomid alone.
I love fn arimadex. Helps really rid u of any extra water when diet is already clean.

 

[Ozzy619]

Bump

 

[Yuri Sa]

Is still needed to blast HCG just before PCT if you use HCG 500mg E3D since day one of the cycle?

 

[Sworder]

Is still needed to blast HCG just before PCT if you use HCG 500mg E3D since day one of the cycle?

No.

 

[Sworder]

Good info! Thx. I have a question regarding when I come off cycle. Last 8 weeks of cycle will b just 100 prop eod and 50mg anavar a day. I am running .5 arimadex eod throughout cycle. Long cycle. Currently on 500 test cyp/ena/deconate/wk and 400 eq/week. Then in alil over a month into tren and prop and masteron then var. Test doses will actually b lowered to 300 a week once I get on tren. Tren not goin over 300/wk. So cycle will end with prop. Will do hcg for 2 weeks then clomid. Why use Nolvadex with clomid? How long after last shot of prop and last day of anavar should I start? I was thinkin 3 days UT should I wait alil more?

Also.. Why not just continue arimadex through pct with clomid..only at a smaller dose? Just curious...i never really got why they say clomid works better with Nolvadex that clomid alone.
I love fn arimadex. Helps really rid u of any extra water when diet is already clean.

Long post, basically clomid and nolva act slightly differently and a smaller dose of both as opposed to a larger dose of one creates a better synergy. Arimidex is good to use during PCT imo, in combo with clomid and nolva ofc.

 

[Kash89]

@jujus For a first cycle of 500mg of test a week, a smaller dose should do.
Something like 40/20/20/20 of nolva only would be enough.
Of course this depends on you age, base line TT.
Just make sure you wait 3 weeks minimum, at that dose, from last pin to start PCT

So if its a 12week cycle on test e, wait at least 21 days from the very last pin on week 12 to start pct ( taking clomid and nolva)?

 

[Pied]

I have a lot of friends who are professional body builders. Needless to say these guys get blood work all the time and I trust what they say. I normally run 750 test cyp and 500 deca for a 12 week cycle. However, week 10 they recommend of course stopping the deca. Week 11 they tell me to cut the test to 500, then week 12 to 250. Then to start pct 2 weeks later. Does anyone see any flaws in this method? It cuts the cycle a little shorter but is easier on your nuts and supposedly gets your body right faster. I also pop a nolvadex every 3-4 days when on cycle to keep estrogen low. I don't particularly like arimidex on cycle. I've never had gyno and I always seem to rebound quickly once my pct is close to being over. I also only use hcg at end of cycle to jump start my nuts.

 

[MR10X]

Dont know why you would taper the Test dose at week 11,just stopping it completely tapers it off.........if you stop test at week 10 you will still have a lot of test in your system at week 12.....