accidentaljedi173
Well-known Member
Excuse my confusion, but are you saying that dhb is closer to primo? If so what are the comparisons in relation to response. Is dhb a cheaper primo essentially?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
DHB (misnomer, it is 1-Testosterone) versus Tren: is it more like Primo or a "Tren lite"? [Author: Type-IIx]
- Thread starter Type-IIx
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In my opinion, DHB is a much better drug when it comes to anabolism and overall sports benefits
On the downside, it is completely untested by science and may be toxic
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
There's no evidence that long-term AAS use affect prostate meaningfully (either by increasing benign prostatic hyperplasia risk, nor by increasing prostate cancer risk).
Often, when guys post elevated PSA here, they're homos. Seriously. Anal penetration dramatically increases PSA.
Estradiol seems worse for prostate cancer risk than DHT in the same animal models by which the DHT/BPH&C risk is apparent.
And some AAS seem to actually be protective against PSA/prostate cancer marker elevation, including trenbolone, whose metabolites may actually shrink prostate size.
See also Do Anabolic Steroids Make the Prostate Grow? - MESO-Rx
Just because testosterone & androgen deprivation is a treatment used in prostate cancer does not imply that T/DHT is causal in BPH/prostate cancer.
Know what totally does increase PSA & bona fide BPH & prostate cancer risk? RhGH.
Since rhGH increases IGFBP-3, to which PSA itself is a protease (breaks down the IGFBP-3 protein), & increases IGF-I, which is directly mitogenic, rhGH actually does what AAS are incorrectly believed to. It may claw back some mutagenic effects on prostate by increasing "inhibitory" IGFBP-2 levels though.
P.S. I'll take a look at the study, if you can find it. I assure you this is not a realistic concern.
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Type-IIx
Well-known Member
accidentaljedi173
Well-known Member
So also within your opinion, is dhb worth running or at least trying out for a decent cycle. I'm currently on masteron but want to try primo. Unfortunately primo is expensive and dhb is not.
this study,
I didn't even read it yet, I just took it from Peter Bond's article on DHT anabolism, where he mentioned that some people had to stop the study because of high PSA
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
Oh yeah, this is a good study to see the metabolism of exogenous DHT & how it's totally anabolically inert.this study,
I didn't even read it yet, I just took it from Peter Bond's article on DHT anabolism, where he mentioned that some people had to stop the study because of high PSA
Insane concentrations
70 mg transdermal DHT ⇒ 25 nmol/L DHT (blood) = 725 ng/dL DHT (blood), which is insanely high and not something relevant for us. This is five-fold higher than I've ever seen in bloodwork.
Not relevant to practical human use, and certainly not to a few hundred mg of 1-Testo.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
Right, so 130 ng/dL. In elderly men (more prone to 5α-reduction), 600 mg testosterone enanthate weekly gives 143.5 ng/dL (mean).
Until we have few dozen bloodwork reports of increased DHT and E1 on DHB, it is pure speculation. So far I've seen maybe two anecdotes and both without specifics. I plan to do a DHB run in April and will test it, but until then I am not convinced.
I'll go in a few days, so next week we can expect the first result I've seen on the internet on this topic
buzzingonaas
Well-known Member
Those numbers are completely fine and don’t really warrant retesting. I assume you train and didn’t take multiple days off from the gym before getting bloodwork? Those are barely elevated and very normal in someone who trains hard and takes aas
I didn't train the day before the test, but I fucked a girl three times at night, so it's hard to judge
But I never rested long before liver tests and they were almost always 20
buzzingonaas
Well-known Member
I wouldn’t worry about those values or just take a little tudca and nac and you’d be right back in range. I’d be thrilled with those numbers on test and DHB
what numbers did you have?
buzzingonaas
Well-known Member
highest I’ve gotten was in the 80s on both alt and ast. But it drops into range in a few weeks off cycle or a couple days off training, so I never worry when I see it 40-65 if I’m on cycle. I’m expecting to get up into the 90s or 100s towards the end of prep but that’s what cruises and health supps are for lol
AlexDavis43
Member
For context: a hard resistance training program can increase those enzymes as much as a moderate cycle of orals, and is similar to moderate drinkers.
Gotta factor all that in when looking at your blood test results.
Denicnut2427
Member
Ggt is a better indicator if there is actual damage to the liver or liver ducts or even liver disease…that’s the number you need to look at ast /alt are very acute and can fluctuate greatly if you get off orals, take milk thistle/NAC or glutathione, over compensate for hydration …like you mentioned they drastically drop but ggt will tell you if your getting where you don’t want to be
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