Ditch the Barbell Gents

[TrenTrenTren]

I've been doing only dumbbells for chest exercises lately. I'll try anything I guess...

 

[JesterBOB]

I've not read every post in this thread coz I can't be bothered but tbh, from experience, all I can say is go and look at guys who are promoting big barbell lifts and decide if that's what you wanna look like.

Here I agree that everyone has their own choice and their own path.

 

[Soloshino]

I prefer compound exercises (BB & DB) for large muscle groups (pectorals, upper back, quadriceps, hamstrings) and isolation exercises for smaller muscle groups (biceps, triceps, side delts, rear delts, calves).

Some isolation exercises have helped me improve my mind-muscle connection (i.e. flat DB flyes for pectorals).

 

[JesterBOB]

Some isolation exercises have helped me improve my mind-muscle connection (i.e. flat DB flyes for pectorals).

I do not quite understand the essence, here are these words, if you can explain in more detail.

 

[Soloshino]

I do not quite understand the essence, here are these words, if you can explain in more detail.

A DB fly is hardest in the stretched position. I find that such exercises are good for the mind-muscle connection since initiating it is the hardest and you need to maximally exert yourself on contracting the muscle from the very beginning. A preacher curl is similar for the biceps.

 

[JesterBOB]

A DB fly is hardest in the stretched position. I find that such exercises are good for the mind-muscle connection since initiating it is the hardest and you need to maximally exert yourself on contracting the muscle from the very beginning. A preacher curl is similar for the biceps.

Ah, now I understand what you mean, thanks.

 

[MindlessWork]

I finally saw the light and decided to ditch flat barbell press due to shoulder issues. In doing flat db presses I find it better to be able to control each arm and have had less pain in shoulders.

 

[JesterBOB]

I finally saw the light and decided to ditch flat barbell press due to shoulder issues. In doing flat db presses I find it better to be able to control each arm and have had less pain in shoulders.

Yes, I also abandoned the barbell for this reason.

 

[alsameesh]

If barbell squats "only load the quads 30%", then what is the remaining 70%? Other muscles? If so then that proves the point that the barbell is useful. It builds up full body strength instead of just one single 2d motion.

Also contesting the snatch, clean and jerk with dumbbells would be silly. Not everyone is here to look pretty and bodybuild.

 

[Norse13]

Yes, I also abandoned the barbell for this reason.

Same here, after a partial tear in the shoulder, I have never touched a barbell again. Except for warmup if all the dumbbell benches are taken. DB are massively better for my shoulders in allowing me more flexibility in rotating it.

 

[canadian mutant]

I'm sure most will simply ignore this post, but for those of you truly opened minded, you and your joints will thank me later.

So I was watching Mark Bell's Power Podcast and he had a guy named Doug Brignole on. He is been bodybuilding for 40+ years, was Mr. Universe and a few other things. Anyway, getting to the point, he basically proves with physics and biomechanics that many of the "must-do mass builders," and several other popular movements, are inefficient and simply not worth doing, due to risk to and strain on joints; that the fitness industry is promoting myths and falsehoods based on keeping tradition and the mentality of "train hard or go home," "gotta hit the muscle from every angle," with a ton of redundant and ineffective exercises, when really, we can stimulate our muscles without destroying our bodies by avoiding exercises that "cost" a ton of energy to do, don't even load the target that well, and cause joint/tendon pain, along with an increase risk of injury.

To break it down, isolation movements are always superior for "mass-building" than compound; it is a bold statement, but irrefutably true. The term "mass-building" is very misleading in the first place, since literally any exercise that can stimulate muscle growth will result in "mass," with proper nutrition etc.

I went on to watched a ton of his interviews, aside from the two posted below, then started applying the optimal physics to my workouts. I also bought his book also so I could learn more (I highly recommend), and now I'm an advocate, and I've applied his ideas to my workouts for the last three months. Basically no more joint point, and my legs haven't shrunk, in fact they improved, without doing squats and the "must-dos."

The hardest part will be convincing yourself and all the people who have seen results with barbell movements like bench, squat, SLDL, barbell curls, skull crushers, deadlift etc., (as we all have) to let go of these things for bodybuilding purposes. Now, no one is saying these things don't work at all, but they don't work as well. For example, you get 100% quad load from leg extensions, but only 30% from squats, so it makes no sense for us bodybuilding to use more energy than necessary to try and load the quad muscle with a less effective exercise, all while increasing the risk of injury and total systemic fatigue, when we can just do the better one for more sets, and recover faster for another session sooner than later.

Now, how did Ronnie and others build huge legs with squads and for forth? This is the typical rebuttal some "gurus" (Palumbo for example) has retorted with, always appealing to the past or other examples, but never refuting the physics. Well if you add up all the sets and exercise they did, an exercise with the efficiency of 30% here, 50% there, 20% etc, you will get 100% stimulus, but they could have done all that without doing all these different movements and instead using the most efficient ones. Could we have built a Ronnie or Jay with JUST compound barbell movements? Doubtful. And look at Ronnie now: many pros get injured doing things they don't need to be doing, but think they should be doing it, because someone before them did it, and told them so. The only people who should doing compounds are those who are powerlifting or competing in strength, where such movements are REQUIRED for the sport; as for bodybuilding, there is literally no reason to do anything compound at all: the best movements are with dumbbells and cables, but not just any dumbbell or cable exercises, there are specific ones that load the muscle the best way possible because of their biomechanical profile. For example, I think we all agree that dumbbells chest presses are far superior than barbell chest presses. The reason for this is because with barbell, the hands are "locked" in the grip you put them in and do not allow the full ROM of the movement, whereas dumbbells do allow it, and also help better train the stabilizers, not hit your front delts too much, and reduce risk of pec tears.

Anyway, here's there two interviews below. The first one got people triggered; the second one clarified it more. I've been in touch with Doug via DM on Instagram, and he is ahead of his time with this stuff. It is crazy once you see what he is saying, how we didn't conclude these things on our own.

If you don't want to ditch the barbell for whatever reason, maybe you just enjoy certain movements (like I did), I suggest to at least do all isolations first, then you can do barbell movements with lighter weights, reducing the risk of injury, all while still building the muscle you want, since they will be pre-exhausted. But once you understand that compound barbell movements, by their very nature, do not hit the target muscle better than isolation, you'll start to realize why you won't need them anymore.

Also, I'm not here to argue or debate anyone, I'm just sharing my own experience and its been extremely positive. I can hit the gym 6x a week now, every muscle group with even more intensity without the systemic fatigue, sore joints, and all that noise. Each muscle group gets literally two exercises with more sets, and I train two muscle groups per session: Back/Chest, Shoulder/Arms, Legs, Repeat those days, then Sunday off.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VdX59JGEgQ&t=8319s



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG8_if1Wz-0

Ur cutting out the test and going deca-only, now ur cutting our the bar bells! What’s going on with you bro?

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Ur cutting out the test and going deca-only, now ur cutting our the bar bells! What’s going on with you bro?

Deca experiment worked fine. I added back compound lifts, which I felt the most. I have another log where I'm in a cut, using Test/Primo/Tren E

 

[JesterBOB]

Same here, after a partial tear in the shoulder, I have never touched a barbell again. Except for warmup if all the dumbbell benches are taken. DB are massively better for my shoulders in allowing me more flexibility in rotating it.

Yes, the same thoughts and feelings, bro.

 

[Soloshino]

Yes, I also abandoned the barbell for this reason.

A lot of people alleviate shoulder issues by adjusting the bench to either a slight incline or slight decline. You could try that as well.
I think that with benching it is kind of cumbersome to use dumbbells past 120 lbs...
It is convenient to not need a spotter, though.

 

[JesterBOB]

A lot of people alleviate shoulder issues by adjusting the bench to either a slight incline or slight decline. You could try that as well.
I think that with benching it is kind of cumbersome to use dumbbells past 120 lbs...
It is convenient to not need a spotter, though.

Without conditionally, the load and pain can be shifted on the corner of the bench. Again, you should not get carried away to take the hardest dumbbells.

 

[Soloshino]

Without conditionally, the load and pain can be shifted on the corner of the bench. Again, you should not get carried away to take the hardest dumbbells.

120 lbs is not a particularly large amount, assuming you are not natural which most people here are. For a compound exercise like this, I personally stay in the 6-8 rep range and if it were my first I would definitely need to go past 120 lbs to feel a good contraction.
I personally start with flat bb bench press and do incline db bench press second. Since I am already somewhat fatigued, I can use weights about 20% lighter than usual.
I think that if your gym has hammer strength chest machines, they might be the best option. I live in a rural area so I pretty much only have free weights and cables in my gym.

 

[JesterBOB]

Yes, simulators at different angles for working on the chest muscles will be the best option

 

[Ridethelightningbarefoot]

I mean I agree. Compound movements are better for training the nervous system. Idk what its like being as big as even most influencers are but the only thing I gotta say is in most gyms will max out weights after a while I would wager. The barbell allows for a greater load than you would be able to achieve with machines. Although I havent been to some if these specialized gyms that are more for bb or PL

 

[JesterBOB]

I mean I agree. Compound movements are better for training the nervous system. Idk what its like being as big as even most influencers are but the only thing I gotta say is in most gyms will max out weights after a while I would wager. The barbell allows for a greater load than you would be able to achieve with machines. Although I havent been to some if these specialized gyms that are more for bb or PL

I didn't quite understand what you mean.

 

[Eustac3Bagge]

For example, you get 100% quad load from leg extensions, but only 30% from squats, so it makes no sense for us bodybuilding to use more energy than necessary to try and load the quad muscle with a less effective exercise, all while increasing the risk of injury and total systemic fatigue, when we can just do the better one for more sets, and recover faster for another session sooner than later.

But, with a leg extension your strength curve is suboptimal.

And quad load with squats is 100%, it is just that other muscles are also loaded variably, which is not a bad thing. Why? Because you are going to hit them later in your workout anyway, that is why you start with compounds.

So if you do squats and you go to failure on quads, that is 100% stimulation. Now, your glutes and lower back muscles also contributed a lot. What do we do? Romanian deadlifts, leg press, lunge, hip thrusts etc etc. and make sure we stimulate all of the leg muscles, working from compounds to isolations.

And systemic fatigue is an indicator that you did some strength work that was not purely metabolic in nature, but you forget that you trade in muscular fatigue vs systemic fatigue, and a good balance is better than both of the extremes.