Ditch the Barbell Gents

[JesterBOB]

Such is the way of these new ideologies. Welcome back.

All workers, as a rule, have long been thought up and effectively. This is your way

 

[Daddymcd]

Nothing blows me up bigger than barbell exercises. Dumbbells do jack

 

[JesterBOB]

I have the exact opposite, dumbbells give me more response from the body.

 

[Daddymcd]

I have the exact opposite, dumbbells give me more response from the body.

Interesting. Barbell Deadlifts, bench, and squats all put massive size on me. I was plateauing when I only used dumbbells.

 

[lukiss96]

I think all major strength and resistence exercises work (compound).

As for DB vs BB, one very annoying thing is to get those heavy dumbbells up which becomes another exercise itself.

Where DB's win is that your dominant side can't compensate for weaker one. For example you can't use your right hand to help out left hand during shoulder press.

I think BB's win for strength overall and for powerlifting there is no question.

I like to mix exercises from time to time, I like to switch from bench press to heavy dips once in a while and it helped me break through plateau in the past. Also body weight exercises like pullups in my opinion are very important so you get used to carrying your own body (we are heavy people after all) and becoming more athletic in general. All in all, find out what you like and what makes you enjoy your workouts, so unless you try a lot of exercises/methods/routines and etc. You will never know what works best for you and your body.

 

[JesterBOB]

Interesting. Barbell Deadlifts, bench, and squats all put massive size on me. I was plateauing when I only used dumbbells.

I mean, at the beginning of the stage, yes, I agree, basic exercises with a barbell are a lot of progress. But with the growth of experience, skill and injuries, we switch to simulators and dumbbells and work more purposefully.

 

[JesterBOB]

I think all major strength and resistence exercises work (compound).

As for DB vs BB, one very annoying thing is to get those heavy dumbbells up which becomes another exercise itself.

Where DB's win is that your dominant side can't compensate for weaker one. For example you can't use your right hand to help out left hand during shoulder press.

I think BB's win for strength overall and for powerlifting there is no question.

I like to mix exercises from time to time, I like to switch from bench press to heavy dips once in a while and it helped me break through plateau in the past. Also body weight exercises like pullups in my opinion are very important so you get used to carrying your own body (we are heavy people after all) and becoming more athletic in general. All in all, find out what you like and what makes you enjoy your workouts, so unless you try a lot of exercises/methods/routines and etc. You will never know what works best for you and your body.

Very good text, I agree that it is important to combine loads and find your most suitable exercise. And most importantly, get high from training in the gym.

 

[Norse13]

I think all major strength and resistence exercises work (compound).

As for DB vs BB, one very annoying thing is to get those heavy dumbbells up which becomes another exercise itself.

Where DB's win is that your dominant side can't compensate for weaker one. For example you can't use your right hand to help out left hand during shoulder press.

I think BB's win for strength overall and for powerlifting there is no question.

I like to mix exercises from time to time, I like to switch from bench press to heavy dips once in a while and it helped me break through plateau in the past. Also body weight exercises like pullups in my opinion are very important so you get used to carrying your own body (we are heavy people after all) and becoming more athletic in general. All in all, find out what you like and what makes you enjoy your workouts, so unless you try a lot of exercises/methods/routines and etc. You will never know what works best for you and your body.

DBs also benefit us older dudes with various shoulder injuries. I have barely touched a barbell for 3+ years. DB gives me more freedom in shoulder movements, both on chest and shoulder press.
It's a hassle to get them up and carry them around. I'm not a strong guy, I max out at 50kg DB for 12 or so reps on chest press. For strong guys, I'm sure DBs are inconvenient.

 

[lukiss96]

DBs also benefit us older dudes with various shoulder injuries. I have barely touched a barbell for 3+ years. DB gives me more freedom in shoulder movements, both on chest and shoulder press.
It's a hassle to get them up and carry them around. I'm not a strong guy, I max out at 50kg DB for 12 or so reps on chest press. For strong guys, I'm sure DBs are inconvenient.

Of course there are a lot more benefits to dumbbells. I find body weight exercises to be the best and most versatile while also strengthening the whole body. I like to attach weight and do dips and pullups and then I like gymnastic ring push and hanging leg raises. I still love barbell, but I might just ditch it for body weight in the future.

By the way 50kg DB is a lot for us recreational trainers, I don't know who told you it's not or where you read it, if it's here just remember bunch of internet clowns always looking to troll and make you feel bad about yourself while being insecure losers themselves.

 

[Norse13]

Of course there are a lot more benefits to dumbbells. I find body weight exercises to be the best and most versatile while also strengthening the whole body. I like to attach weight and do dips and pullups and then I like gymnastic ring push and hanging leg raises. I still love barbell, but I might just ditch it for body weight in the future.

By the way 50kg DB is a lot for us recreational trainers, I don't know who told you it's not or where you read it, if it's here just remember bunch of internet clowns always looking to troll and make you feel bad about yourself while being insecure losers themselves.

I used to train at a gym that sponsored many pro strength sport athletes, Olympic weightlifting, strongman, powerlifting, bodybuilding. Whatever I could lift, someone smaller than me could lift twice as much lol I got a bit distorted view.

 

[JesterBOB]

DBs also benefit us older dudes with various shoulder injuries. I have barely touched a barbell for 3+ years. DB gives me more freedom in shoulder movements, both on chest and shoulder press.
It's a hassle to get them up and carry them around. I'm not a strong guy, I max out at 50kg DB for 12 or so reps on chest press. For strong guys, I'm sure DBs are inconvenient.

I am one of them, a person with shoulder injuries and dumbbells helped me recover and work fully in the gym.

 

[JesterBOB]

I used to train at a gym that sponsored many pro strength sport athletes, Olympic weightlifting, strongman, powerlifting, bodybuilding. Whatever I could lift, someone smaller than me could lift twice as much lol I got a bit distorted view.

In such halls, self-esteem drops below zero. But I am truly glad that there are such guys, they are my motivation, that everything is possible.

 

[lukiss96]

I used to train at a gym that sponsored many pro strength sport athletes, Olympic weightlifting, strongman, powerlifting, bodybuilding. Whatever I could lift, someone smaller than me could lift twice as much lol I got a bit distorted view.

Unless that's how you "earn your bread" I don't think one should take it seriously. But I see what you are saying though.

 

[JesterBOB]

Unless that's how you "earn your bread" I don't think one should take it seriously. But I see what you are saying though.

True words, you can't say better. I also said above that it is too early for him. I hope he listens to us.

 

[OldGHGuy]

I'm sure most will simply ignore this post, but for those of you truly opened minded, you and your joints will thank me later.

So I was watching Mark Bell's Power Podcast and he had a guy named Doug Brignole on. He is been bodybuilding for 40+ years, was Mr. Universe and a few other things. Anyway, getting to the point, he basically proves with physics and biomechanics that many of the "must-do mass builders," and several other popular movements, are inefficient and simply not worth doing, due to risk to and strain on joints; that the fitness industry is promoting myths and falsehoods based on keeping tradition and the mentality of "train hard or go home," "gotta hit the muscle from every angle," with a ton of redundant and ineffective exercises, when really, we can stimulate our muscles without destroying our bodies by avoiding exercises that "cost" a ton of energy to do, don't even load the target that well, and cause joint/tendon pain, along with an increase risk of injury.

To break it down, isolation movements are always superior for "mass-building" than compound; it is a bold statement, but irrefutably true. The term "mass-building" is very misleading in the first place, since literally any exercise that can stimulate muscle growth will result in "mass," with proper nutrition etc.

I went on to watched a ton of his interviews, aside from the two posted below, then started applying the optimal physics to my workouts. I also bought his book also so I could learn more (I highly recommend), and now I'm an advocate, and I've applied his ideas to my workouts for the last three months. Basically no more joint point, and my legs haven't shrunk, in fact they improved, without doing squats and the "must-dos."

The hardest part will be convincing yourself and all the people who have seen results with barbell movements like bench, squat, SLDL, barbell curls, skull crushers, deadlift etc., (as we all have) to let go of these things for bodybuilding purposes. Now, no one is saying these things don't work at all, but they don't work as well. For example, you get 100% quad load from leg extensions, but only 30% from squats, so it makes no sense for us bodybuilding to use more energy than necessary to try and load the quad muscle with a less effective exercise, all while increasing the risk of injury and total systemic fatigue, when we can just do the better one for more sets, and recover faster for another session sooner than later.

Now, how did Ronnie and others build huge legs with squads and for forth? This is the typical rebuttal some "gurus" (Palumbo for example) has retorted with, always appealing to the past or other examples, but never refuting the physics. Well if you add up all the sets and exercise they did, an exercise with the efficiency of 30% here, 50% there, 20% etc, you will get 100% stimulus, but they could have done all that without doing all these different movements and instead using the most efficient ones. Could we have built a Ronnie or Jay with JUST compound barbell movements? Doubtful. And look at Ronnie now: many pros get injured doing things they don't need to be doing, but think they should be doing it, because someone before them did it, and told them so. The only people who should doing compounds are those who are powerlifting or competing in strength, where such movements are REQUIRED for the sport; as for bodybuilding, there is literally no reason to do anything compound at all: the best movements are with dumbbells and cables, but not just any dumbbell or cable exercises, there are specific ones that load the muscle the best way possible because of their biomechanical profile. For example, I think we all agree that dumbbells chest presses are far superior than barbell chest presses. The reason for this is because with barbell, the hands are "locked" in the grip you put them in and do not allow the full ROM of the movement, whereas dumbbells do allow it, and also help better train the stabilizers, not hit your front delts too much, and reduce risk of pec tears.

Anyway, here's there two interviews below. The first one got people triggered; the second one clarified it more. I've been in touch with Doug via DM on Instagram, and he is ahead of his time with this stuff. It is crazy once you see what he is saying, how we didn't conclude these things on our own.

If you don't want to ditch the barbell for whatever reason, maybe you just enjoy certain movements (like I did), I suggest to at least do all isolations first, then you can do barbell movements with lighter weights, reducing the risk of injury, all while still building the muscle you want, since they will be pre-exhausted. But once you understand that compound barbell movements, by their very nature, do not hit the target muscle better than isolation, you'll start to realize why you won't need them anymore.

Also, I'm not here to argue or debate anyone, I'm just sharing my own experience and its been extremely positive. I can hit the gym 6x a week now, every muscle group with even more intensity without the systemic fatigue, sore joints, and all that noise. Each muscle group gets literally two exercises with more sets, and I train two muscle groups per session: Back/Chest, Shoulder/Arms, Legs, Repeat those days, then Sunday off.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VdX59JGEgQ&t=8319s



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG8_if1Wz-0

TRUTH. Brilliant and thanks for saying it.

 

[OldGHGuy]

Nice post

I can only say I've seen a number of BB w MS injuries over the years and the majority occurred under one or more of the following circumstances: heavy lifting, barbell, absence of a spotter, during attempts to "break thru" an injury, age > 40.

That being said the metabolic benefit of compound exercises such as squats that some have eluded to, is difficult to duplicate w isolation exercises.

Get the "Metabolic Benefit" with supersets, less time between sets, HIT, etc

 

[SirNipples]

I started my training pretty late here in my 40's I will say I've had to avoid some barbell compound lifts like bench, barbell rows and even squats. I have slowly worked on my squats, added in the barbell row, and plan to add in barbell bench to my next mesocycle. Everyone seems to respond differently so try what works for you. I personally feel now that I have dropped the ego, and found the bar path that is comfortable for my body type. I will make much more progress adding in the compound barbell lifts

 

[Soloshino]

TRUTH. Brilliant and thanks for saying it.

lol he said he no longer believes this.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Doug had some good points, and I certainly applied many of his ideas to isolations, but I have gone back to compounds.

 

[buck]

How a movement is done can be the make or break of it. When ever some one comes out with their new great way to train eat or anything else i ask what they actually did in their early years when the gained all that muscle not what they are doing now. The body is just a bunch of pulleys and levers as i see it that we apply force to. Appling the force is the best ergonomic way for that person body type seems the smart way to go. I find whether it is a compound or isolation movement setting it up to not cause damage and to make it as difficult as possible with the lightest amount of weight is best long term.