Do not use ppl

[Derailed82]

Not at all, no. In MCT and 2/20 it’ll hold at 250. Many labs make it at 200 now with zero pip. Switching from GSO to MCT is a total game changer for stuff like primo and DHB.

A few lists that I have, make it with EO... Figured if it was doable, more labs would be selling it like that. Good to know.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

I'm taking to Janoshik as we speak, and I asked the PPL rep specifically if he would accept a test from Jano, and if so, I will get my Cyp powder tested. This was why his initial response to "go get it tested" was something I kept harping on because it was not clear if they would take any lab or if I had to get Lab4tox only.



Again, I am more than happy to being wrong and will apologize publicly if I am. I still have 10g of test left, and I will brew it without a zap cap, along with my deca and tren, so there are no mishaps. I've learned not to trust media bottles because their glass bottoms can be shaped differently and throw off readings.

But I thought of other scenarios:

Perhaps the Primo affects TT readings? My free test is sky high at 1084.6. When I had levels of 1495 test cyp from Rx, my FT was only 299. I

Perhaps my test raws were "stuck" in the Zapcap, but I ran oils through it after, and test, being cheaper, was the first things I brewed, so I made sure the Primo didn't get screwed up. But even so, those test raws would be in the primo and not lost.

Someone mentioned inj frequency but didn't explain it yet. I dont get how Rx cyp at 100mg Mon and Thursday would give me readings of 1495, whereas these raw at 160mg W,M,F would yield 1783, drawn on Weds?

I'm all ears still and I WANT to be wrong; I have other raws that I'd have to either toss or test if I am right.

Anyway, if Panda agrees, I will send it off to Jano, for the sake of both SST and Meso. Idk if I would deal with PPL again, regardless of the results, simply due to the terrible customer service.

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

Perhaps the Primo affects TT readings?

They do not. Primo is not testosterone. Total testosterone readings will read your total testosterone. This assumes you’re getting the right blood work (if you’re not then shame on you, you cheapskate). If you use the wrong assay then nandrolone will also read as TT. But even with the wrong assay (ELICA) primo will not read as testosterone.

Someone mentioned inj frequency but didn't explain it yet. I dont get how Rx cyp at 100mg Mon and Thursday would give me readings of 1495, whereas these raw at 160mg W,M,F would yield 1783, drawn on Weds?

Injection frequency would not explain that response unless the doses were similar. 480 is a lot more than 200 in terms of what your TT should be. Even broken up three times a week it should be considerable higher unless it was in the first few weeks of a blast/cycle. Otherwise that’s not a reasonable answer.

But even so, those test raws would be in the primo and not lost.

Well no, they wouldn’t be “raws” at all. They’d be fully integrated into the oil, so that’s not a feasible explanation either.

There are two explanations here, and I don’t think you’re going to like one of them.

Explanation 1: Panda’s raws are low purity and somehow, despite the fact that he supplies a shitload of domestic labs, many of whom get their raws tested, and most of whom test their finished, and somehow nobody has discovered the impurity yet. This strains credulity. The sheer volume of testing that’s done makes it almost impossible to believe that he’s been selling kilos and kilos of impure test e and it’s just whizzed right over everyone’s heads. Not saying it isn’t possible, because with Panda literally almost anything is possible. But it seems unlikely on its face.

Explanation 2: You fucked up the brew significantly worse than you think. Now I’m being gentle here because you seem like a straight shooter and you’re not trolling or causing trouble. I believe you’re genuinely trying to get to the bottom of this. So take this in the spirit in which it’s intended: the fact that you didn’t know that media bottle measurements are an approximation tells me that you’re really inexperienced at brewing. There is no circumstance under which you rely on those measurements for anything that requires precision. It’s very likely that your mistakes in the brew are in fact off by some heretofore unknown amount, meaning you weren’t wrong by 15%, you were wrong by 50%. (Those are arbitrary numbers to illustrate a point) If you were smart you’d send in the raw power and some of your finished test to have them analyzed by Jano. I bet your estimation of 160mg is off by a great deal.

 

[janoshik]

Explanation 1: Panda’s raws are low purity and somehow, despite the fact that he supplies a shitload of domestic labs, many of whom get their raws tested, and most of whom test their finished, and somehow nobody has discovered the impurity yet.

Very agreeable, but there's been widespread issues with test c being like 90% recently. While bad, I doubt it could have such profound effect on bloodwork by itself, but I cannot rule that out.

 

[Connor 25257]

Panda’s raws are low purity and somehow, despite the fact that he supplies a shitload of domestic labs, many of whom get their raws tested, and most of whom test their finished, and somehow nobody has discovered the impurity yet.

I’m only familiar with 1 source who uses panda in the USA. Every other source uses a different supplier. But if so many us sources use panda, I suppose why that explains their shitty product.

 

[Connor 25257]

Very agreeable, but there's been widespread issues with test c being like 90% recently. While bad, I doubt it could have such profound effect on bloodwork by itself, but I cannot rule that out.

Low and behold. Poor quality raws. Once again, something I preached about months ago

 

[Deleted member 123722]

They do not. Primo is not testosterone. Total testosterone readings will read your total testosterone. This assumes you’re getting the right blood work (if you’re not then shame on you, you cheapskate). If you use the wrong assay then nandrolone will also read as TT. But even with the wrong assay (ELICA) primo will not read as testosterone.



Injection frequency would not explain that response unless the doses were similar. 480 is a lot more than 200 in terms of what your TT should be. Even broken up three times a week it should be considerable higher unless it was in the first few weeks of a blast/cycle. Otherwise that’s not a reasonable answer.

Well no, they wouldn’t be “raws” at all. They’d be fully integrated into the oil, so that’s not a feasible explanation either.

There are two explanations here, and I don’t think you’re going to like one of them.

Explanation 1: Panda’s raws are low purity and somehow, despite the fact that he supplies a shitload of domestic labs, many of whom get their raws tested, and most of whom test their finished, and somehow nobody has discovered the impurity yet. This strains credulity. The sheer volume of testing that’s done makes it almost impossible to believe that he’s been selling kilos and kilos of impure test e and it’s just whizzed right over everyone’s heads. Not saying it isn’t possible, because with Panda literally almost anything is possible. But it seems unlikely on its face.

Explanation 2: You fucked up the brew significantly worse than you think. Now I’m being gentle here because you seem like a straight shooter and you’re not trolling or causing trouble. I believe you’re genuinely trying to get to the bottom of this. So take this in the spirit in which it’s intended: the fact that you didn’t know that media bottle measurements are an approximation tells me that you’re really inexperienced at brewing. There is no circumstance under which you rely on those measurements for anything that requires precision. It’s very likely that your mistakes in the brew are in fact off by some heretofore unknown amount, meaning you weren’t wrong by 15%, you were wrong by 50%. (Those are arbitrary numbers to illustrate a point) If you were smart you’d send in the raw power and some of your finished test to have them analyzed by Jano. I bet your estimation of 160mg is off by a great deal.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I figured it couldn't be the injection frequency.

I've brewed Tren Ace via Finaplix tablets with conversion kits back in the day; I never homebrewed loose raws before until recently. I also never used a Zapcap before either, with a pump. The amount of gear I brewed, its not even necessary (I know that now.)

But here is why I don't think it's the brew, although I hope it is because I still have 10g of test cyp left, along with other raws. Here is the recipe I followed:

Test cyp 200mg/ml 10g=50ml

1%BA=.5ml

20%BB=10ml

MCT=29.5ml

I brewed the 10g of Test C first, because its 20x cheaper than Primo, so if I fucked up, I'd bet out a few dollars vs $200. After mixing solvents, adding oil, and pumping it through the Zapcap, the media bottle measured 40ml. Going off the media vial, I continued to add more it reached 50ml. However, when I used the 10cc syringe to draw everything out, I drew out 10ml 6x; thus putting 10ml is six bottles. By sheer physics, how can the brew dissipate the oil unevenly, to where the 10grams would make not each vial 10ml of 160cc? This is why I don't think it is the brew because all I did was simply dilute it more than it should have been. In order to have 100mg per CC, I would have had to add DOUBLE the amount of oil to the brew.

 

[janoshik]

Low and behold. Poor quality raws. Once again, something I preached about months ago

It's still more of an exception than a rule.

 

[x666x]

There was a screw up with T-E being sent out instead of T-C.

Anyone done a slow melting point test. If you have a hot plate increasing the temp 2 C every minute until you get complete melting might help us in the meantime.

If the melting point is way off we might have a mislabeled raw or something that is clearly impure.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

There was a screw up with T-E being sent out instead of T-C.

Anyone done a slow melting point test. If you have a hot plate increasing the temp 2 C every minute until you get complete melting might help us in the meantime.

If the melting point is way off we might have a mislabeled raw or something that is clearly impure.

well my Deca came as liquid, and now it is literally a giant hard crack rock. What does that mean? lol.

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I figured it couldn't be the injection frequency.

I've brewed Tren Ace via Finaplix tablets with conversion kits back in the day; I never homebrewed loose raws before until recently. I also never used a Zapcap before either, with a pump. The amount of gear I brewed, its not even necessary (I know that now.)

But here is why I don't think it's the brew, although I hope it is because I still have 10g of test cyp left, along with other raws. Here is the recipe I followed:

Test cyp 200mg/ml 10g=50ml

1%BA=.5ml

20%BB=10ml

MCT=29.5ml

I brewed the 10g of Test C first, because its 20x cheaper than Primo, so if I fucked up, I'd bet out a few dollars vs $200. After mixing solvents, adding oil, and pumping it through the Zapcap, the media bottle measured 40ml. Going off the media vial, I continued to add more it reached 50ml. However, when I used the 10cc syringe to draw everything out, I drew out 10ml 6x; thus putting 10ml is six bottles. By sheer physics, how can the brew dissipate the oil unevenly, to where the 10grams would make not each vial 10ml of 160cc? This is why I don't think it is the brew because all I did was simply dilute it more than it should have been. In order to have 100mg per CC, I would have had to add DOUBLE the amount of oil to the brew.

And you’re very sure that it was 10g and not less than that? You trust the scale you have? Because if you do and everything is how you explained it then yes, lower purity raws would become an attractive explanation.

But even if they were 90% that still means your 9g of pure test in 60ml of solution is 150mg/ml. It doesn’t explain your blood work at all. So now we circle back to the reality that blood work is not a very useful measurement (a notion that for some reason people reflexively reject) and that your response has changed. Because if that’s not a premise you’re willing to grant then you have to proclaim that the test purity is <50%, which would be an outrageous scandal and again, someone would have noticed.

[The math says ~48% purity if you assume your response hasn’t changed at all. If you want me to lay out the formula I will]

 

[Deleted member 123722]

And you’re very sure that it was 10g and not less than that? You trust the scale you have? Because if you do and everything is how you explained it then yes, lower purity raws would become an attractive explanation.

But even if they were 90% that still means your 9g of pure test in 60ml of solution is 150mg/ml. It doesn’t explain your blood work at all. So now we circle back to the reality that blood work is not a very useful measurement (a notion that for some reason people reflexively reject) and that your response has changed. Because if that’s not a premise you’re willing to grant then you have to proclaim that the test purity is <50%, which would be an outrageous scandal and again, someone would have noticed.

[The math says ~48% purity if you assume your response hasn’t changed at all. If you want me to lay out the formula I will]

Even I don't think it could be that low.

Let's explore this response with age:

In 2015, age 31 on 100mg of Rx Cyp per week getting 922.

In 2017, age 33 on 200mg of Rx Cyp per week, split into two, getting 1495.

Because my doctor wouldn't give me 200mg anymore, I went back to UGLs.

In 2020, I took a UGL called "Chaos," where it was supposed to be 250mg per CC, and my bloods came back 684. As usualy, I split the dosage 125mg Monday and 125mg Thurs. I told my friend it must be under dosed, going off my previous responses. I was 36 at this time:

Now I'm 37, getting this 1783 reading of apparently 480mg per week.

Does this tell us anything?

 

[Connor 25257]

It's still more of an exception than a rule.

It shows that raws quality is getting worse is where I’m coming from. UGLS are only getting worse as the months grow

 

[theotherguy]

2015 was a 9x response
2017 was a 7.5x response
2020 was a 2.7x response
2021 is a 3.7x response

IIRC you said that you had the blood draw on the same day as you pinned. I do not know what the ramp up time is, but it is not instantaneous. It is possible you pulled a trough number depending on the amount of time between the pin and the draw.

Just a thought

EDIT: just for clarification, I'll help you lambast PPL if they're sending out shitty raws, but so far you have brought no reliable data to the table, only speculation

 

[theotherguy]

It shows that raws quality is getting worse is where I’m coming from. UGLS are only getting worse as the months grow

Everyone knows your OPINION on this, and you aren't changing anyones mind. It is one thing to state your opinion, it is another thing to try to force your opinion on others. No one likes that shit

 

[Deleted member 123722]

2015 was a 9x response
2017 was a 7.5x response
2020 was a 2.7x response
2021 is a 3.7x response

IIRC you said that you had the blood draw on the same day as you pinned. I do not know what the ramp up time is, but it is not instantaneous. It is possible you pulled a trough number depending on the amount of time between the pin and the draw.

Just a thought

EDIT: just for clarification, I'll help you lambast PPL if they're sending out shitty raws, but so far you have brought no reliable data to the table, only speculation

I didn't pin Weds morning; the only thing I pinned that morning was Goodlyfe GH, at 2.5iu, and my IGF came back 371, which I posted in another thread.

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

Let’s do the math.

Response rate to 200mg pharma test c was 7.47.

Response rate to (allegedly) 480mg panda test was 3.7.

That seems like an steep drop. So if it’s not you but rather the test purity then here’s the formula:
1783 (current result) / 7.47 (past response) = 238mg

So that 480mg would have to be around 238mg in actuality, which puts the purity at 49%.

Now I’m not trying to game out injection frequency and how it would change these numbers, because that’s too damn much for me today. But raws coming in below 98%, say maybe 90%, plus your splitting of the dose in a different way, plus your response rate lowering by some believable amount ends up equaling your results today.

A few things seem true here. Your response has dropped significantly, which happens. Your raws may not be of the best purity. And maybe timing of the blood draws is contributing some small amount. But overall it’s kind of weird. Unless your body has just shifted a ton OR PPL is selling 49% pure test (neither of which seem likely) then we’re looking at a combination of things that land you at that lousy number. Time to get some tested gear and go get another round of blood work.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

2015 was a 9x response
2017 was a 7.5x response
2020 was a 2.7x response
2021 is a 3.7x response

IIRC you said that you had the blood draw on the same day as you pinned. I do not know what the ramp up time is, but it is not instantaneous. It is possible you pulled a trough number depending on the amount of time between the pin and the draw.

Just a thought

EDIT: just for clarification, I'll help you lambast PPL if they're sending out shitty raws, but so far you have brought no reliable data to the table, only speculation

Well I appreciate it, but I actually hope to be convinced that this is normal with age or something else. Even I doubt that PPL is sending 50% purity raws lol. Even at 90%, I should still have a good reading. So perhaps it is me after all? I'm wiling to accept that so long as I get a logical and clear explanation. And I am more than willing to publicly apologize and have admin nuke all my threads on this matter.

 

[theotherguy]

I didn't pin Weds morning; the only thing I pinned that morning was Goodlyfe GH, at 2.5iu, and my IGF came back 371, which I posted in another thread.

So you pinned your test on Monday, and then had your blood drawn Wednesday before you pinned, is that correct? That means you got a trough value, not a peak value.

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

Well I appreciate it, but I actually hope to be convinced that this is normal with age or something else. Even I doubt that PPL is sending 50% purity raws lol. Even at 90%, I should still have a good reading. So perhaps it is me after all? I'm wiling to accept that so long as I get a logical and clear explanation. And I am more than willing to publicly apologize and have admin nuke all my threads on this matter.

Just FTR, a response of 9x or even 7.5x is phenomenal and is borderline outlier territory. Mine has always been 4-4.5x on my trt test that comes straight from a pharmacy. The only deviation was on UGL test PP and that was related to timing a different ester. It was still in that 5x range. It’s entirely possible that as you age your body is metabolizing this stuff at a different rate. All sorts of things can impact that process.