Do you plan to blast in old age (40+)?

[pierrebobin]

I'm 52 and on TRT for 2 years with 3 cycles so far.
I'm a weightlifting addict since teen
Did only one cycle in my 20's but luckily didn't like the ""cheating"" aspect so i stopped and was happy with my natty physique : 6 feet 200 pounds lean.
NOW since my TRT i did :
3 months on 300mg test
3 months on 200 test 120 equipoise
4 months on 200 test 120 deca
The results i have one those cycles are enough for me so i plan on pursuing for years on.
I enjoy testing compounds after a life time natty only dreaming about gear.
I am VERY happy with my choices and my labs are great.
A have about the same physique i had at 35, only 5/10 pounds heavier.
I plan on staying on """safe""" AAS like test, var, deca, mast, equipoise.
I plan on upping the dosage ONLY if i see it os necessary to maintain.
I plan on never going over 600mg total AAS.
Did tons on research and listened thousands of hours of podcasts and videos of Dr only....Rand, O'connor, Touliatos, etc.

 

[Ateam2023]

I'm 52 and on TRT for 2 years with 3 cycles so far.
I'm a weightlifting addict since teen
Did only one cycle in my 20's but luckily didn't like the ""cheating"" aspect so i stopped and was happy with my natty physique : 6 feet 200 pounds lean.
NOW since my TRT i did :
3 months on 300mg test
3 months on 200 test 120 equipoise
4 months on 200 test 120 deca
The results i have one those cycles are enough for me so i plan on pursuing for years on.
I enjoy testing compounds after a life time natty only dreaming about gear.
I am VERY happy with my choices and my labs are great.
A have about the same physique i had at 35, only 5/10 pounds heavier.
I plan on staying on """safe""" AAS like test, var, deca, mast, equipoise.
I plan on upping the dosage ONLY if i see it os necessary to maintain.
I plan on never going over 600mg total AAS.
Did tons on research and listened thousands of hours of podcasts and videos of Dr only....Rand, O'connor, Touliatos, etc.

i'm 51 and am into longevity and optimum health and performance, BUT , i still want to run a couple more cycles of the more friendly test, npp, eq, hgh and a little tne for a kick in the pants before training and like you said nothing extreme as i do have old injuries i must work around so that being said ,,, good day

 

[Mongo966]

I'm 41 and just did my first blast above 1g this summer. It was a lot of fun to feel 20 again for a couple of months. I'll be paying close attention to my health so I can do it as often as possible. What is life without quality?

 

[hungryalways]

I'm 41 and just did my first blast above 1g this summer. It was a lot of fun to feel 20 again for a couple of months. I'll be paying close attention to my health so I can do it as often as possible. What is life without quality?

Which compounds? How were bloods?

Tempted to increase a bit on my next blast also but feel pretty great <500mg with some DHT compounds included.

 

[Mongo966]

Which compounds? How were bloods?

Tempted to increase a bit on my next blast also but feel pretty great <500mg with some DHT compounds included.

750 test, 350 npp for 12 weeks. I also took some injectable anadrol before workouts a couple times per week. It was an incredibly effective cycle. The difference between this cycle and the 250 test 200 primo that I usually run was night and day.
Bloods were a bit messed up but not as bad as expected. Primo kills my HDL but NPP doesn't, apparently.
I'm excited about running more blasts but I know I'm going to cool it here for at least 6 months, possibly a year before I take more steroids. I think it's necessary.

 

[FIna]

I've just turned 40 and am on a high cruise of ~400mg Test, 300mg Deca per week. Been running that for about 6 months. I am aware it's not overly healthy, but that wasn't in the topic title

 

[hungryalways]

Mine was 99 cash. And I think a computer analyzes it. Also check lipoprotein a, better marker for atherosclerosis than ldl etc

Early 40s. LDL(a) just came back at 52 ng/dL. Any older folks here treating high Lipoprotein a with a PCSK9 inhibitor or otherwise?

Looks like all the highly targeted drugs are still in trials but at least looks hopeful for the future.

Anyone still blast with elevated LDL(a)? Seems like possibly an unwise risk considering how additional risk factors compound risk.

 

[hungryalways]

Early 40s. LDL(a) just came back at 52 ng/dL. Any older folks here treating high Lipoprotein a with a PCSK9 inhibitor or otherwise?

Looks like all the highly targeted drugs are still in trials but at least looks hopeful for the future.

Anyone still blast with elevated LDL(a)? Seems like possibly an unwise risk considering how additional risk factors compound risk.

View attachment 306282

Also, this could be of note:

Growth hormone treatment increases circulating lipoprotein(a) in children with chronic renal failure - PubMed

Cardiovascular disease is the major cause of death in chronic renal failure (CRF) patients managed by dialysis or kidney transplantation. Whilst the use of human growth hormone (hGH) is of established benefit in CRF children particularly in those with short stature, in the present study we...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Overnight fasting blood samples were collected immediately before and after 6 months hGH treatment. In all but one of the children there was a significant increase in serum Lp(a) over the 6 month treatment period -(+)66.7% over the basal levels (range 14 to 180%)

I have been taking 2-3IU of HGH for 18 months. Stopped 6 weeks ago but wonder if that was enough time for any rise on LDL(a) to return to baseline.

 

[malfeasance]

Also, this could be of note:

Growth hormone treatment increases circulating lipoprotein(a) in children with chronic renal failure - PubMed

Cardiovascular disease is the major cause of death in chronic renal failure (CRF) patients managed by dialysis or kidney transplantation. Whilst the use of human growth hormone (hGH) is of established benefit in CRF children particularly in those with short stature, in the present study we...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Overnight fasting blood samples were collected immediately before and after 6 months hGH treatment. In all but one of the children there was a significant increase in serum Lp(a) over the 6 month treatment period -(+)66.7% over the basal levels (range 14 to 180%)

I have been taking 2-3IU of HGH for 18 months. Stopped 6 weeks ago but wonder if that was enough time for any rise on LDL(a) to return to baseline.

Ugh.

As for whether 6 weeks is enough, I have two observations. (1) blood test with lipids is cheap. (2) It is not just the return to baseline that matters, but living with lipids at normal levels.

The idea is a cycle to put on mass, cut, whatever, but live the majority of our lives during the year with things at normal levels doing no harm. Only for one or two short periods during the year do we stress our arteries and heart and liver and kidneys and eyeballs.

But instead everybody likes the superhero feeling and the look of swollen muscles so much that we stay out of range. We do not like to look "flat" so we do not even cut.

Those raised LDL levels are making deposits on our arteries. Our body tries to protect itself by calcifying . . .

That is happening when the LDL is out of range.

Having LDL return to range before immediately sending it back out of range is not really delaying all that much the reckoning when plaque on our arteries becomes severe and an acute problem for us. We are accelerating that day of reckoning.

The low harm idea was to live most of our lives with LDL in the normal ranges, and only short periods driving it out of range.

Nobody does that.

And because blood pressure is ok today, we all think we are doing no harm and push on with TRT + and or several cycles a year.

 

[malfeasance]

But instead everybody likes the superhero feeling and the look of swollen muscles so much that we stay out of range. We do not like to look "flat" so we do not even cut.

Those raised LDL levels are making deposits on our arteries. Our body tries to protect itself by calcifying . . .

That is happening when the LDL is out of range.

Having LDL return to range before immediately sending it back out of range is not really delaying all that much the reckoning when plaque on our arteries becomes severe and an acute problem for us. We are accelerating that day of reckoning.

The low harm idea was to live most of our lives with LDL in the normal ranges, and only short periods driving it out of range.

Nobody does that.

And because blood pressure is ok today, we all think we are doing no harm and push on with TRT + and or several cycles a year.

I am not excluding myself from this, preaching at the rest of you.

The temptation is real.

All of us want to have superior physiques. All of us love the feeling of being enhanced. All of us want to delude ourselves into thinking steroids are not harmful (and hgh, too, now, I am beginning to think - honestly I was thinking that outside of potentially growing a cancerous tumor if you already had one, I thought there was no real risk to hgh . . . I am starting to change my opinion)

 

[Primoisthebest]

Early 40s. LDL(a) just came back at 52 ng/dL. Any older folks here treating high Lipoprotein a with a PCSK9 inhibitor or otherwise?

Looks like all the highly targeted drugs are still in trials but at least looks hopeful for the future.

Anyone still blast with elevated LDL(a)? Seems like possibly an unwise risk considering how additional risk factors compound risk.

View attachment 306282

What is your diet, cardio, ancillary situation now?

As older guys doing aas it’s pretty much mandatory to monitor and treat as needed year round lipids, fasted glucose/insulin, bp. Something as simple as ezetimibe and a high quality fish oil will be enough for most to keep normal lipids with a good diet. If your over 10-12% bodyfat your diet needs an overhaul. You probably need to add metformin or berberine depending on your glucose numbers.

It is entirely possible for most guys to maintain normal blood work while using enough gear to be completely jacked.

I would never dismiss the whole cholesterol marker idea, however it’s awfully convenient that the medical community comes up with a new marker (Lpa) and lots of correlation to bad events and then of course has a new, single source drug (expensive I’m sure) to treat. It’s like all those years of prescribed statins will become obsolete, unnecessary as the shiny new toy is all we need.

 

[hungryalways]

What is your diet, cardio, ancillary situation now?

As older guys doing aas it’s pretty much mandatory to monitor and treat as needed year round lipids, fasted glucose/insulin, bp. Something as simple as ezetimibe and a high quality fish oil will be enough for most to keep normal lipids with a good diet. If your over 10-12% bodyfat your diet needs an overhaul. You probably need to add metformin or berberine depending on your glucose numbers.

It is entirely possible for most guys to maintain normal blood work while using enough gear to be completely jacked.

I would never dismiss the whole cholesterol marker idea, however it’s awfully convenient that the medical community comes up with a new marker (Lpa) and lots of correlation to bad events and then of course has a new, single source drug (expensive I’m sure) to treat. It’s like all those years of prescribed statins will become obsolete, unnecessary as the shiny new toy is all we need.

Diet is good but only run ancillaries from India pharma while "blasting" (never above 500mg/week) to keep BP in ideal range (nebivolol + telmisartan). I had not run any cholesterol-lowering drugs until now, as I wasn't aware it was an issue until the LPA test.

LDL is actually the best it's been since I first started recording it 7-8 years ago, but I'm wondering now if it's the HGH and/or TRT keeping it down. LDL is typically good on or off "cycle" and I put that in quotes as I know <500mg is cruise for some of you guys so possibly not expected to send LDL too out of whack.

HDL is and always has been borderline low. Cardio is lacking as it hasn't really fit with my goals short of some hopping, heavy-bag work to build bone density along with whatever walking I do day to day.

Bodyfat is usually around 10-14%.HBA1C is 28 mmol/mol / 4.9 mmol/L / 4.7%.

Interestingly, at this point, it seems most cardiologists advise patients with high LPA to simply lower LDL and adjust any other modifiable risk factors so maybe a statin/ezetimibe is on the cards.

This calculator shows some quite staggering changes in risk by dropping LDL by 30% and actually takes risks below the level assuming normal LPA (note: scores are quite a bit worse if I use older lipid values pre-HGH/TRT and I believe I was using low dose tirz at the time too which seems to benefits my lipids).


I guess the main consideration, though, is whether or not I can run some TRT+ or mild blasts without adding too much additional risk. Even with BP and lipids under control I'd imagine there is some compounding to overall risk with the addition of anabolics to supraphysiological levels.

 

[Primoisthebest]

Diet is good but only run ancillaries from India pharma while "blasting" (never above 500mg/week) to keep BP in ideal range (nebivolol + telmisartan). I had not run any cholesterol-lowering drugs until now, as I wasn't aware it was an issue until the LPA test.

LDL is actually the best it's been since I first started recording it 7-8 years ago, but I'm wondering now if it's the HGH and/or TRT keeping it down. LDL is typically good on or off "cycle" and I put that in quotes as I know <500mg is cruise for some of you guys so possibly not expected to send LDL too out of whack.

HDL is and always has been borderline low. Cardio is lacking as it hasn't really fit with my goals short of some hopping, heavy-bag work to build bone density along with whatever walking I do day to day.

Bodyfat is usually around 10-14%.HBA1C is 28 mmol/mol / 4.9 mmol/L / 4.7%.

Interestingly, at this point, it seems most cardiologists advise patients with high LPA to simply lower LDL and adjust any other modifiable risk factors so maybe a statin/ezetimibe is on the cards.

This calculator shows some quite staggering changes in risk by dropping LDL by 30% and actually takes risks below the level assuming normal LPA (note: scores are quite a bit worse if I use older lipid values pre-HGH/TRT and I believe I was using low dose tirz at the time too which seems to benefits my lipids).
View attachment 306736

I guess the main consideration, though, is whether or not I can run some TRT+ or mild blasts without adding too much additional risk. Even with BP and lipids under control I'd imagine there is some compounding to overall risk with the addition of anabolics to supraphysiological levels.

Diet is good but only run ancillaries from India pharma while "blasting" (never above 500mg/week) to keep BP in ideal range (nebivolol + telmisartan). I had not run any cholesterol-lowering drugs until now, as I wasn't aware it was an issue until the LPA test.

LDL is actually the best it's been since I first started recording it 7-8 years ago, but I'm wondering now if it's the HGH and/or TRT keeping it down. LDL is typically good on or off "cycle" and I put that in quotes as I know <500mg is cruise for some of you guys so possibly not expected to send LDL too out of whack.

HDL is and always has been borderline low. Cardio is lacking as it hasn't really fit with my goals short of some hopping, heavy-bag work to build bone density along with whatever walking I do day to day.

Bodyfat is usually around 10-14%.HBA1C is 28 mmol/mol / 4.9 mmol/L / 4.7%.

Interestingly, at this point, it seems most cardiologists advise patients with high LPA to simply lower LDL and adjust any other modifiable risk factors so maybe a statin/ezetimibe is on the cards.

This calculator shows some quite staggering changes in risk by dropping LDL by 30% and actually takes risks below the level assuming normal LPA (note: scores are quite a bit worse if I use older lipid values pre-HGH/TRT and I believe I was using low dose tirz at the time too which seems to benefits my lipids).
View attachment 306736

I guess the main consideration, though, is whether or not I can run some TRT+ or mild blasts without adding too much additional risk. Even with BP and lipids under control I'd imagine there is some compounding to overall risk with the addition of anabolics to supraphysiological levels.

AAS and everything ped has risks, but so does driving a car and swimming in the ocean. I’d say address your risk factors so they are in order and then live life to the fullest including if that involves aas, gh etc. For me if I shave a few years off the end but live the life I want until then, it’s a worthy trade off. My father died at 90 and I wouldn’t want his last 5-10 years.

 

[pierrebobin]

AAS and everything ped has risks, but so does driving a car and swimming in the ocean. I’d say address your risk factors so they are in order and then live life to the fullest including if that involves aas, gh etc. For me if I shave a few years off the end but live the life I want until then, it’s a worthy trade off. My father died at 90 and I wouldn’t want his last 5-10 years.

I guess we all try to assess the risk factor with that logic
The issue is, wether we use roids or NOT, our last years might still be painful.
This is the genetic lotery and lifestyle habits.
HOWEVER, I would even argue that roid users increase their risk of organ failure for their old age, shortened or not, making their last years at least as painful as non users.

 

[Primoisthebest]

I wouldn’t disagree as I know many aas users just ignore signs of ill health until they have big problems. Is it possible to use aas without risk to organ failure prematurely? I think if you are monitoring health and using in a way that you stay”healthy” as defined by our systems bloodwork standards, you should be able to avoid any substantial extra risks. That is not an easy task as it requires a lot of testing, ancillary use and adjustments to aas protocols that might be inconvenient and spending more money. It’s not all about being a drug user, so the positive lifestyle effects from clean eating, cardio and strength training into old age should not be dismissed in the analysis. Time will tell. I’m optimistic on my own chances.

 

[pierrebobin]

I wouldn’t disagree as I know many aas users just ignore signs of ill health until they have big problems. Is it possible to use aas without risk to organ failure prematurely? I think if you are monitoring health and using in a way that you stay”healthy” as defined by our systems bloodwork standards, you should be able to avoid any substantial extra risks. That is not an easy task as it requires a lot of testing, ancillary use and adjustments to aas protocols that might be inconvenient and spending more money. It’s not all about being a drug user, so the positive lifestyle effects from clean eating, cardio and strength training into old age should not be dismissed in the analysis. Time will tell. I’m optimistic on my own chances.

Thks. I am optimistic too. Never drank, nore smoked, always ate organic.
Plan on using gear on/off, max 600mg per week and so far (2 years and 4 cycles of 3 months) i am VERY happy with the results 300mg give me. I go see other health practitioner who are more precise and can detect organ fatigue BEFORE it shows on labs...so... i enjoy the ride and "may God be with us"

 

[hungryalways]

I wouldn’t disagree as I know many aas users just ignore signs of ill health until they have big problems. Is it possible to use aas without risk to organ failure prematurely? I think if you are monitoring health and using in a way that you stay”healthy” as defined by our systems bloodwork standards, you should be able to avoid any substantial extra risks. That is not an easy task as it requires a lot of testing, ancillary use and adjustments to aas protocols that might be inconvenient and spending more money. It’s not all about being a drug user, so the positive lifestyle effects from clean eating, cardio and strength training into old age should not be dismissed in the analysis. Time will tell. I’m optimistic on my own chances.

Assuming we keep bloodwork within the ranges known to be good, is there any evidence that this eliminates or drastically reduces harm from AAS? It would make sense mechanistically, but I'm curious if there's any data and whether this reduction in risk can be measured.

I know we can't expect to run Tren or orals that nuke HDL with no ill effect, but what if we run the safer compounds at reasonable doses and keep lipids, blood pressure, inflammation, hba1c, liver, and FBC all looking good?

 

[malfeasance]

Assuming we keep bloodwork within the ranges known to be good, is there any evidence that this eliminates or drastically reduces harm from AAS? It would make sense mechanistically, but I'm curious if there's any data and whether this reduction in risk can be measured.

I know we can't expect to run Tren or orals that nuke HDL with no ill effect, but what if we run the safer compounds at reasonable doses and keep lipids, blood pressure, inflammation, hba1c, liver, and FBC all looking good?

Is it possible to keep your bloodwork within the ranges known to be good?

Running steroids pretty much throws lipids all out of whack, and very slowly over time one is depositing plaque on the arteries.

And now everybody stays elevated for years on end, thinking there is no downside to running 200mg or more a week
or
gasp
250 test
200deca
anavar
and calling it TRT + or athlete TRT.

But, hey, if I am 30, I have low blood pressure, I do not think I am doing anything wrong, and I just never come off.

And I never run blood tests, or, if I do, I ignore that the LDL is high and the HDL is low. Because I know it will go back to how it was when I finally stop, some day. It's not doing harm on a daily basis right now, is it?

 

[Grey Spartan]

I see no issues with running ANY compound

at reasonable doses and keep lipids, blood pressure, inflammation, hba1c, liver, and FBC all looking good?

The way I see it, most older individuals end up on a shit ton of meds due to their lack of self-care. The majority of older MESO members who run AAS/PEDs take good care of themselfs. Sure, it most likly will shorten our lives but compared to the rest the population, our quality of life will be dramaticly better.

I get blood work every month and know how everything I put in my body effects that. I take my blood presure twice a day and check my glucose levels regually. I can choose to ignore everything or act on it but at least I have the information. When I am not taking AAS/PEDs I run 150mg Test and my levels on that are about 731 and I do not need an AI. This is how I do it.

 

[Primoisthebest]

I wouldn’t disagree as I know many aas users just ignore signs of ill health until they have big problems. Is it possible to use aas without risk to organ failure prematurely? I think if you are monitoring health and using in a way that you stay”healthy” as defined by our systems bloodwork standards, you should be able to avoid any substantial extra risks. That is not an easy task as it requires a lot of testing, ancillary use and adjustments to aas protocols that might be inconvenient and spending more money. It’s not all about being a drug user, so the positive lifestyle effects from clean eating, cardio and strength training into old age should not be dismissed in the analysis. Time will tell. I’m optimistic on my own chances.

I’d say 100% it’s possible by taking appropriate support drugs/supplements. I do with the exception of struggling to get hdl normal ( I’m close). I’ve got shit cholesterol genetics so it’s a given will be a challenge.