For those of you who play the 200mg test game and then add tons of anabolics on top, which do you use? I can't tolerate masteron at any dose.

[ve79]

My ratios are
200 test
150-200 primo , depending on how sensitive you’re to primo AI effects.

Plus either
A) 400-600 deca
B) 350-500 NPP
C) 500-700 tren (for some reason I get more mental sides on lower doses of tren )


Alternative is 200 test and primo. If u run HCG you can crank up primo high because HCG helps
Make e2 in ur testes , and this isnt blocked by primo

My examples

200 test
250 HCG ED
800+ primo

Or if no HCG

200 test
300 primo.

I have yet to try primo. I guess it's because some people live it and some say it's not worth the cost. Mast to me makes the most sense

 

[rokkrul3r]

The most enjoyable experiences I had with gear was running my 125mg a week test cyp trt dose with off and on blasts of 3 to 6 week cycles using test prop and NPP. Sometimes I’d just run the test prop but I always had decent results and never felt much sides if any. I wish this was the approach I’d used from day one but sadly only started doing this the last 2 years I played around with anything above my trt dose.

I'm feeling test prop is really overlooked... Running 700mg of prop might with a DHT of your choosing might be the best way to feel, look and actually be blasty while not going overboard on toxic shit

Seriously considering just doing 0.5ml of test and mast prop ED for 3 months and assessing

 

[rexy]

I'm feeling test prop is really overlooked... Running 700mg of prop might with a DHT of your choosing might be the best way to feel, look and actually be blasty while not going overboard on toxic shit

Seriously considering just doing 0.5ml of test and mast prop ED for 3 months and assessing

I have considered the same and bought some vials to trial it out.

I'm coming to the end of a cycle on longer esters, and usually put prop/acetate in daily to make the most of the last 2 weeks whilst the long ones are still clearing. Next time, I'm just considering using the shorter esters for the entire thing.

I think the psychological effect of shorter esters is massively beneficial and under-appreciated. Not only is the same mg dose equivalent to a higher amount of longer esters due to AUC, but knowing the ester is so quickly in-and-out is also beneficial. Like, you could stop that protocol on any given day and by 24hrs it'd be all pretty much completely out the system. I think there is something to that in the back of a person's mind that helps feel better on the shorter esters.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

I have considered the same and bought some vials to trial it out.

I'm coming to the end of a cycle on longer esters, and usually put prop/acetate in daily to make the most of the last 2 weeks whilst the long ones are still clearing.

I think the psychological effect of shorter esters is massively beneficial too. Not only is the same mg dose equivalent to a higher amount of longer esters due to AUC, but knowing the ester is so quickly in-and-out is also beneficial. Like, you could stop that protocol on any given day and by 24hrs it'd be all pretty much completely out the system. I think there is something to that in the back of a person's mind that helps feel better on the shorter esters.

I'm feeling test prop is really overlooked... Running 700mg of prop might with a DHT of your choosing might be the best way to feel, look and actually be blasty while not going overboard on toxic shit

Seriously considering just doing 0.5ml of test and mast prop ED for 3 months and assessing

When I started back up on AAS, it was test prop and mast prop. 350mg of each per week I think had me feeling probably the best I've ever felt on "blast". I think there is definitely something to the quick acting in and out, peak and trough nature of it.

 

[rexy]

When I started back up on AAS, it was test prop and mast prop. 350mg of each per week I think had me feeling probably the best I've ever felt on "blast". I think there is definitely something to the quick acting in and out, peak and trough nature of it.

It's become common to focus on stable levels but I honestly don't think there is a benefit to it - and that it's a psychological one because the person thinks it's beneficial. Of course, if it works for them, it works - and I'm all for what fits the individual.

At the end of the day, blood levels show hormone sat around. Quick acting pulses from shorter esters has to be working faster because the hormone is getting cleared from the blood quicker.

I also know from experience that with long esters, I experience a benefit from bolus doses vs. smaller peaks of daily. If nothing else, it can be a beenfit to the non-genomic response - hence why some people do suspension 100mg pre-workout etc. That wouldn't work if a bolus wasn't doing somerthing stable levels don't.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

It's become common to focus on stable levels but I honestly don't think there is a benefit to it - and that it's a psychological one because the person thinks it's beneficial.At the end of the day, blood levels show hormone sat around. Quick acting pulses from shorter esters has to be working faster because the hormone is getting cleared from the blood quicker.

I also know from experience that with long esters, I experience a benefit from bolus doses vs. smaller peaks of daily. If nothing else, it can be a beenfit to the non-genomic response - hence why some people do suspension 100mg pre-workout etc. That wouldn't work if a bolus wasn't doing somerthing stable levels don't.

100% agree with you. I've come full circle. Believe that more stable does not = more better. I think some folks get some benefit from doing cyp daily to limit certain sides, while for others, that will actually make them feel worse, lower libido, etc.

I believe Cataceous (sp?) on Excel male uses a blend of cyp and prop and mimic physiologic peak and trough.

When I'm done with my current blast, I'm going right back to test p and mast p daily for some TRT++ and just going to chase that true "feel good" goldilocks zone.

 

[rexy]

100% agree with you. I've come full circle. Believe that more stable does not = more better. I think some folks get some benefit from doing cyp daily to limit certain sides, while for others, that will actually make them feel worse, lower libido, etc.

I believe Cataceous (sp?) on Excel male uses a blend of cyp and prop and mimic physiologic peak and trough.

When I'm done with my current blast, I'm going right back to test p and mast p daily for some TRT++ and just going to chase that true "feel good" goldilocks zone.

Funny you say that because I too have come full circle and part of what tipped me over the threshold was a link from @readalot

This one:

Testosterone (no ester) Suspension for Injection - Literature Review

Going to do a thread on what is often referred to as TNE (Testosterone No Ester) on here. This preparation would be crystalline testosterone in an aqueous suspension (e.g., Aquaviron). I'll see what I can find on pharmacokinetics as well. Building off of @madman 's post here...

www.excelmale.com

Lots of reading but it shows the activity for both prop and suspension is longer than we realise. This screenshot is quite far down the page:



Prior to this I'd thought that shorter esters clearing within a day from the blood meant 'that's all folks' and the compound was done and your effect was over - but clearly, clearing from the blood is only part of it, hence my comment above about blood levels just showing what's lingering around. Even prop has lasting effects that stick around longer than the compound itself. It opened my eyes quite a bit; and to the fact that even prop on a wider-injection frequency could be powerful. It also feels psychologically 'cleaner' to me personally and feels like you're more in control of the compound.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Funny you say that because I too have come full circle and part of what tipped me over the threshold was a link from @readalot

This one:

Testosterone (no ester) Suspension for Injection - Literature Review

Going to do a thread on what is often referred to as TNE (Testosterone No Ester) on here. This preparation would be crystalline testosterone in an aqueous suspension (e.g., Aquaviron). I'll see what I can find on pharmacokinetics as well. Building off of @madman 's post here...

www.excelmale.com

Lots of reading but it shows the activity for both prop and suspension is longer than we realise. This screenshot is quite far down the page:

View attachment 304986

Prior to this I'd thought that shorter esters clearing within a day from the blood meant 'that's all folks' and the compound was done and your effect was over - but clearly, clearing from the blood is only part of it, hence my comment above about blood levels just showing what's lingering around. Even prop has lasting effects that stick around longer than the compound itself. It opened my eyes quite a bit; and to the fact that even prop on a wider-injection frequency could be powerful. It also feels psychologically 'cleaner' to me personally and feels like you're more in control of the compound.

Hahaha I was looking at all this shit super in depth after I got my wife pregnant before I hopped on again. I was going to do test suspension in the AM and then enclomiphene in the PM; but not too much test suspension in the AM that it would blunt the impact of enclomiphene in the PM (completely).

Stumbled across the test prop / test suspension AQ solutions having longer half life than thought due to the crystals surviving in body (I think there is a horse study on suspension AQ somewhere).

Anyways....long story short now i'm blasting long esters and megadosing HCG + HMG hoping to maintain fertility lol.

I was mostly looking into prop and suspension from a fertility preservation standpoint to reduce the AUC as it's demonstrated shorter esters = less suppression which makes sense since less time spent at supraphysiologic blood levels.

Anyhow, not to derail this completely, but it opened my eyes to common misconceptions with prop + suspension half life and different vehicles altering half life significantly.

 

[Grey Spartan]

I'm feeling test prop is really overlooked... Running 700mg of prop might with a DHT of your choosing might be the best way to feel, look and actually be blasty while not going overboard on toxic shit

Seriously considering just doing 0.5ml of test and mast prop ED for 3 months and assessing

I found this out when I got sold Test-P instead of Tren-A. Gains and feeling were amazing.

It's become common to focus on stable levels but I honestly don't think there is a benefit to it - and that it's a psychological one because the person thinks it's beneficial. Of course, if it works for them, it works - and I'm all for what fits the individual.

At the end of the day, blood levels show hormone sat around. Quick acting pulses from shorter esters has to be working faster because the hormone is getting cleared from the blood quicker.

I also know from experience that with long esters, I experience a benefit from bolus doses vs. smaller peaks of daily. If nothing else, it can be a beenfit to the non-genomic response - hence why some people do suspension 100mg pre-workout etc. That wouldn't work if a bolus wasn't doing somerthing stable levels don't.

100%