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Giant Semaglutide Thread (and other GLP-1 / GIP agonists)

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Ghoul said:
With extraordinarily rare exceptions, Tirz has fewer side effects than Sema.
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Friend of mine had a site reaction to tirz. Had to switch to sema. A review of the literature showed that site reactions to tirz are relatively common by comparison to sema. This data showed up in the clinical trials as an observation. To my knowledge, no other studies have been done. The conclusion in the papers that I saw was that site reactions didn’t reduce efficacy.

I realize that’s not a comprehensive list of all the potential side effects, but one that stood out to me.
 
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egruberman said:
Friend of mine had a site reaction to tirz. Had to switch to sema. A review of the literature showed that site reactions to tirz are relatively common by comparison to sema. This data showed up in the clinical trials as an observation. To my knowledge, no other studies have been done. The conclusion in the papers that I saw was that site reactions didn’t reduce efficacy.

I realize that’s not a comprehensive list of all the potential side effects, but one that stood out to me.
Click to expand...

It's a thing, but truly a rarity (with pharma), so much so that when it happens they write entire papers on the individual's case.


I'd say discontinuance for this reason is almost unheard of. Interestingly, this guy didn't have the same with Sema either.

I know Sema and Tirz induce immunogenic reactions that don't cross over. In other words, you can develop an immunity to Sema that doesn't neutralize Tirz, luckily.

I'll note I've heard of painful site reactions to UGL at what seems like a much higher rate.

Hardly surprising, with reconstitution ratios all over the place, unknown excipients and contaminants, degraded peptides and aggregates forming from poor handling, all putting immune systems on high alert.
 
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Ghoul said:
It's a thing, but truly a rarity (with pharma), so much so that when it happens they write entire papers on the individual's case.
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My recollection, which I can verify, is that site reactions were somewhat common. I.e. >5% or something. It seems that in most cases, as you wrote, it didn't require discontinuation of treatment.

That wasn't the case for my friend who had quite large welts and swelling. We tried different vials, different BAC water, and different batches, none of which I had a reaction to.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that it's a common problem, but something I did observe that seemed to happen more frequently with tirzepatide than semaglutide.
 
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Ghoul said:
I'll start by saying you don't even realize it's there until it stops. You feel a sudden, dramatic, unexpected change, Something that's always been there, suddenly goes quiet. Only coming back when you legitimately need to eat.

Here's the best parallel I can make.

When you feel hunger, and for whatever reason, can't address it, and time keeps passing but you can't get any food, the preoccupation with eating intensifies until it's all you can think about.

Your mouth literally waters at the thought of food.

The smell of something cooking draws your attention much more than if you weren't hungry.

You aren't going to be able to pay attention to other subjects and become completely preoccupied with getting something to eat.

Most people get increasingly irritable, angry even. I'm sure you've seen this mood change in people, even animals. I think it's why so many women carry snacks with them lol.

Post Thanksgiving feast, the opposite happens. Food no longer seems palatable. The thought of another bite makes you feel ill. Your favorite foods hold no appeal whatsoever.

All of this has a biological basis (GLP's impact on the hypothalamus playing a major role).

The current hypothesis is that increasingly people aren't producing sufficient GLP hormone or have developed insensitivity to it, like insulin resistance.

Bariatric surgery, which shrinks the stomach, induces weight loss because when the stomach stretches, GLP receptors are released, increasing sensitivity to GLP, quieting "food noise", aka, the drive to eat.

You can easily overlay this to other compulsive behaviors. Cigarette smokers experience this in the absence of nicotine, getting crankier and more desperate the longer they go without, alcoholics as well, opioids, cocaine, you name it all experience something similar in the absence of whatever is being craved.

It's no coincidence GLPs look like a potent treatment for all of these addictions. They all influence behavior via the malfunctioning of this psychological "noise" mechanism, that GLPs, normally released after eating, shuts down.
Click to expand...

Man food noise is akin to wanting to fuck… its all consuming… mouth literally watering… until its time to ffff aaauuuuuckkk… then it subsides…. And goes away… then comes back and fuck fuck fuckety fuck fuck… yeasssss
 
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Ghoul said:
Eli ran out of room on the peptide chain to include more of a GIP component. Not chemically, legally.

Sema is 31 amino acids. Tirz 39. Reta 39.

TLDR: an obscure part of Obamacare allows peptides over 40 amino acids to be copied by competitors almost immediately.

As a result, nearly all new peptide/protein drug development projects have been focused on sub 40 amino acid peptides, even when larger chains would make the drug better.
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That is wild to think about, I’m surprised some of the manufacturers making the grey market haven’t added more amino acids, or someone in business doing that.
 
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iris said:
How are you?

Hope you aren't out of diet coke.
Every time I see one now, it makes me think of you.
And also Donald Trump, lol.
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Funny

Im alright, I have dark tren thought times and sunshine times, I am in a sunshine time right now like a little butterfly blasting Poppy All The Things She Said 24/7
 
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I've searched the forum and read this thread and wondering if theres any further information on the shelf life of UGL/generic semaglutide when mixed with BAC water (and kept refrigerated?) Most web searches point to 28 days but this I imagine may be less to do with the peptide and more to do with the BAC water usage protocol?

There are main suppliers with amazing deals but the smallest vials are 5mg, the largest 36iu or so, for anyone to start at the normal recommended dose would mean throwing most of the 5mg vial away the first month, half the month after and the bigger vials only make sense for very large people, unless we are keeping it for longer, much longer?

Obviously I'd prefer to buy the bigger vials and if there was a known degradation over time it would still be financially viable to use them but with soo little info about I'm wondering what others are doing?
 
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MrGrant said:
I've searched the forum and read this thread and wondering if theres any further information on the shelf life of UGL/generic semaglutide when mixed with BAC water (and kept refrigerated?) Most web searches point to 28 days but this I imagine may be less to do with the peptide and more to do with the BAC water usage protocol?

There are main suppliers with amazing deals but the smallest vials are 5mg, the largest 36iu or so, for anyone to start at the normal recommended dose would mean throwing most of the 5mg vial away the first month, half the month after and the bigger vials only make sense for very large people, unless we are keeping it for longer, much longer?

Obviously I'd prefer to buy the bigger vials and if there was a known degradation over time it would still be financially viable to use them but with soo little info about I'm wondering what others are doing?
Click to expand...

Ghoul

Post in thread 'Retatrutide'

By the time the peptide gets to you, the 99% could be 94% and the 97% could still be 97%, so don't concern yourself too much with that. 96% or above imo is fine.

Pharma reconstituted GLPs (pens) last for two years under refrigeration. That's under perfect conditions you cannot replicate.

User reconstituted pharma proteins in multi dose containers, using the specific BAC they supply, are universally instructed to be discarded after 28 days.

No one can say for certain how long before a UGL peptide degrades. On top of all the variables, each batch will vary in stability as well.

What...
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I already buyed QSC Tirze and iam now on 4Week with two weeks soage of 5mg and i feel nothing, not just me also my friend.

Sema works pretty well on me, but now nothing.

Juice Fake? Or just have to wait, or more MG?
 
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Schmeity said:
I already buyed QSC Tirze and iam now on 4Week with two weeks soage of 5mg and i feel nothing, not just me also my friend.

Sema works pretty well on me, but now nothing.

Juice Fake? Or just have to wait, or more MG?
Click to expand...

Two things.

People switching from Sema to Tirz expect to "feel" side effects like Sema. Tirz is much more gentle, even at the maximum dose, but it will give you appetite suppression, you just won't feel as "sick" as you do on Sema.

Also, 5mg is a very low dose, especially for males. When I switched I didn't feel like it was working until 10mg, and that was using pharma pens.

Since you're experienced with Sema, I'd say its safe to increase to 7,5mg. It does take 4 weekly doses to get the full effect of the new dose. After 4 weeks go to 10mg if you want, then 12.5mg 4 weeks later, and finally 15mg.

Even at 15mg, it won't feel as "strong" as Sema even though you'll still lose weight.
 
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Ghoul said:
Two things.

People switching from Sema to Tirz expect to "feel" side effects like Sema. Tirz is much more gentle, even at the maximum dose, but it will give you appetite suppression, you just won't feel as "sick" as you do on Sema.

Also, 5mg is a very low dose, especially for males. When I switched I didn't feel like it was working until 10mg, and that was using pharma pens.

Since you're experienced with Sema, I'd say its safe to increase to 7,5mg. It does take 4 weekly doses to get the full effect of the new dose. After 4 weeks go to 10mg if you want, then 12.5mg 4 weeks later, and finally 15mg.

Even at 15mg, it won't feel as "strong" as Sema even though you'll still lose weight.
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Thanks mate, this will help me alot. I will do it now, but i go straight a little bit higher. :)

Acutally i feel nothing i have good appetite, Sema works so great maybe i shouldnt change to Reta :D
 
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Ghoul said:
We always have to keep in mind despite the long track record of humans using this this class of drugs, the best evidence for safety, there's a long, long way to go in understanding all the effects, By which we're really looking at the effects of what had been a somewhat obscure natural metabolic hormones, GLP and GIP.

To answer your question, here's one possibility Tirz will help with your goals, even lowered to a non-weight loss dose (just keep lowering until you stop feeling appetite suppression, but keep in mind, it takes 4 weeks to fully adjust to a new dose).

I'm basing this theory on recent, very early "low powered" research into this area:

A study on some diabetics (of course) found that Tirz:

-Did NOT increase resting metabolism.

-DID significantly increase fat oxidation and reduced protein oxidation, compared to subjects not using Tirz in a caloric deficit.


They didn't speculate in the mechanism of action that caused this positive effect on recomposition, but I will.

Seperate animal studies showed that Tirz increased the expression of certain genes in Brown Adipose Tissue, boosting thermogenesis, ie, the ability of brown fat to oxidize fats to keep internal organs warm. It's been observed "naturally thin" and underweight people have greater Brown Adipose Tissue mass that's also more reactive than normal and overweight subjects.

Here's the killer part of this, if it holds up in future research. The effect is CUMULATIVE. The longer one is treated with Tirz, the greater the increase in thermogenic capability becomes.

Tirzepatide induces a thermogenic-like amino acid signature in brown adipose tissue - PMC

Tirzepatide, a dual GIP and GLP-1 receptor agonist, delivered superior glycemic control and weight loss compared to selective GLP-1 receptor (GLP-1R) agonism in patients with type 2 diabetes (T2D). These results have fueled mechanistic studies ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So, for that reason among others, if I were in your shoes, on a bulk, just keep the Tirz dose below where you feel appetite suppression. There's no reason to believe appetite suppression is required for the other aspects of these drugs to work. In fact, at a "maintenance" dose, the balance between weight and dose, you should feel nothing. It's neutral with regard to appetite and side effects. 15mg Tirz and I feel nothing. It didn't stop working, that's how it's supposed to work, and I'm confident the other metabolic improving effects continue.
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At such a low dose isn't reta a Better alternative? As cost gets prohibitive only at high dosages but at 2mg weekly for example it's still super cheap to run not as appetite suppression but to reap all the benefit of these glp1 and still being able to bulk
 
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Sampei said:
At such a low dose isn't reta a Better alternative? As cost gets prohibitive only at high dosages but at 2mg weekly for example it's still super cheap to run not as appetite suppression but to reap all the benefit of these glp1 and still being able to bulk
Click to expand...

That may be the case, but Reta crosses a couple of my personal "lines".

1. For something I intend to stay on indefinitely, I don't want to be reliant on an underground source as the only way to get it. It's unlikely, but it's possible access stops before it's approved and available with a prescription. Nor can you "stock up" with several years worth like more robust compounds like Testosterone. No such concern with Tirz.

2. Though it's in Phase 3 trial, there have been "surprises" that showed up late in testing. If there was some major benefit over Tirz, I may be wiling to make the tradeoff, but I'm not sure there is. I don't need additional loss, and I'm skeptical of the "energy" claim, as I chalk that up to a side effect from initial GLP usage and the sudden calorie deficit. Once most people switch to Reta, they're beyond that and already adjusted to fewer calories, along with managing their food choices better.
 
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Ghoul said:
That may be the case, but Reta crosses a couple of my personal "lines".

1. For something I intend to stay on indefinitely, I don't want to be reliant on an underground source as the only way to get it. It's unlikely, but it's possible access stops before it's approved and available with a prescription. Nor can you "stock up" with several years worth like more robust compounds like Testosterone. No such concern with Tirz.

2. Though it's in Phase 3 trial, there have been "surprises" that showed up late in testing. If there was some major benefit over Tirz, I may be wiling to make the tradeoff, but I'm not sure there is. I don't need additional loss, and I'm skeptical of the "energy" claim, as I chalk that up to a side effect from initial GLP usage and the sudden calorie deficit. Once most people switch to Reta, they're beyond that and already adjusted to fewer calories, along with managing their food choices better.
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Make sense, we will see I guess.
 
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Here2Learn said:
Did it go away or what happened?
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Worth reading through:

WARNING: AVOID AMINOS RESEARCH AT ALL COSTS!!! DANGER!!!

So the nut job that runs AR just tried peddling a "new" peptide he claims to have invented. No papers published, no peer reviews, no rodent testing, no FDA filings, just "hey I invented this new GLP-1/GIP peptide and you should shoot yourself up with it!". This kind of dangerous behavior is...
glp1forum.com glp1forum.com
 
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