Glute muscle infection from injection.

[Hotrods12]

This same thing happened to my buddy when we were in our 20s and it was from him injecting the same spot he ended up with an infection, but after six weeks of injecting from the same viel, I cant see it being from it, more so injection error unless he has it tested

 

[Dr JIM]

would you recommend filtering gear?

It's supposed to already be filtered so why filter it AGAIN? (And the evidence
from anabolic labs proves it IS FILTERED IMO)

And when one consideres the limited experience of most on THIS forum, filtering would likely
INCREASE the rate of infection.

The bottom line know your sources or use Pharma.

 

[synical]

Being mindful of those contributing factors I mentioned previously, that's generally true OZ!

However since "mild" infectious processees often clear spontaneously, they can readily be dismissed as "part of the deal" by users.

Consequently what can happen I eluded to earlier as an "additive effect", in that several injections in relatively close anatomic proximity can overwhelm host immunity with the end result being an overt infection.

@synical there is one question you "friend" could ask his Doc that MAY help differentiate whether this infection is the result of contaminated gear.

Have him ask the Doc WHAT bacteria were noted in the CULTURE!

Although some docs choose not to perform a wound culture esp if a "sterile abscess" is suspected and the latter would be a frequent occurance IF antibiotics were prescribed BEFORE the culture was obtained.

So he asked about the culture last night, rather then type out everything here's a screenshot of what he said even though it will get his grammar skills flamed lol.

 

[KingAlfred]

There is something that needs to be taken into consideration here. When you draw out of a vial, outside air goes in to fill the void. You either have to push some air in then draw or draw it out then air goes in when you pull the needle out. Either way, vials can be contaminated from the outside air. When you use it over and over it is impossible to keep it totally sterile because of that. Ampules are so much safer. There are a number of reasons I dislike vials. That being the biggest reason.

 

[Dr JIM]

So he asked about the culture last night, rather then type out everything here's a screenshot of what he said even though it will get his grammar skills flamed lol.

Have him obtain a COPY of the RESULTS and post them

 

[Dr JIM]

There is something that needs to be taken into consideration here. When you draw out of a vial, outside air goes in to fill the void. You either have to push some air in then draw or draw it out then air goes in when you pull the needle out. Either way, vials can be contaminated from the outside air. When you use it over and over it is impossible to keep it totally sterile because of that. Ampules are so much safer. There are a number of reasons I dislike vials. That being the biggest reason.

The amount of bacterial contamination that occurs from AIR being instilled into a multi-dose vial approximates ZIPPO,
unless you're pinning in a sandstorm.

That's bc bacteria are HEAVIER than air and tend to settle onto inanimate objects such as the vial top.

The latter is one reason why it's standard medical practice to wipe off the stopper with alcohol before each use.

I'll also mention ampules are not "safer" bc they have cut nurses and patients alike.

The reason many Pharm injectables are only available in SINGLE DOSE VIALS? They greatly limit errors with respect to the transmission of communicable disease from one patient to the next!

 

[Ozzy619]

There is something that needs to be taken into consideration here. When you draw out of a vial, outside air goes in to fill the void. You either have to push some air in then draw or draw it out then air goes in when you pull the needle out. Either way, vials can be contaminated from the outside air. When you use it over and over it is impossible to keep it totally sterile because of that. Ampules are so much safer. There are a number of reasons I dislike vials. That being the biggest reason.

The same thing would happen to the amps once you open them too. And it's uneccessary to pressurize a vial. Like Jim stated, always clean the top of the vial and use good hygiene when pinning.

 

[Dr JIM]

The same thing would happen to the amps once you open them too. And it's uneccessary to pressurize a vial. Like Jim stated, always clean the top of the vial and use good hygiene when pinning.

Based on the amount of misinformation with respect to the practice of "sterile technique" it a miracle many more cyclists don't develop infections.

The fact IS only a minority of BB
truly understand how to pin using aseptic technique CORRECTLY.!

(You name it I've seen it from Pinning
after having explosive diarrhea to injected thru residual tanning lotion
after being in a sauna for hours. And ALL said they were "very careful", right)

And the primary reason we don't note a much higher rate of infections, esp in novice users, intact host immunity and low UGL vial bacterial counts.

 

[Dr JIM]

And I'm not knocking the more veteran BB bc most know how to pin correctly and do so in a HABITUAL or almost ritualistic manner.

IDK but suppose for many seasoned BB a sense of complacency or urgency develops in which they deviate from a sound practice of pinning AAS to something much less desirable, and thats when an infection is more likely to occur.

Soft tissue infections are an inherent risk of using AAS, but like mosit other AAS related complications there are often ways to diminish RISK.

Nice thread IMO

 

[Ozzy619]

And I'm not knocking the more veteran BB bc most know how to pin correctly and do so in a HABITUAL or almost ritualistic manner.

IDK but suppose for many seasoned BB a sense of complacency or urgency develops in which they deviate from a sound practice of pinning AAS to something much less desirable, and thats when an infection is more likely to occur.

Soft tissue infections are an inherent risk of using AAS, but like mosit other AAS related complications there are often ways to diminish RISK.

Nice thread IMO

You would be surprised what I've heard some experiences guys doing including; not cleaning the vial tops, not cleaning inject site and even using same pins to inject multiple times! All of which I mentioned can be found on threads on here.

This is in fact a great topic and great to mitigate complacency for even the experienced users. Thanks for the input and clarification.

 

[KingAlfred]

The same thing would happen to the amps once you open them too. And it's uneccessary to pressurize a vial. Like Jim stated, always clean the top of the vial and use good hygiene when pinning.

No. It won't happen to an ampule because there is no time for any bacteria to grow and culture. You use it as soon as you open it, whereas a vial the bacteria carried in with the air sits in there and grows. I didn't say pressurizeing it was necessary though just that no matter how you go about it the air goes in. In the medical practice vials are rarely if ever reused, this I know because of an ex girlfriend who was a RN and she always had to dispose of a vial no matter what was left after the injection. She also told me that tje way she was trained was to pressurize it with an equal amout of air to how many ml you are taking out. Like you said though, I don't believe that that is a necessity, unless your dealing with a very small gage needle.

 

[KingAlfred]

The amount of bacterial contamination that occurs from AIR being instilled into a multi-dose vial approximates ZIPPO,
unless you're pinning in a sandstorm.

That's bc bacteria are HEAVIER than air and tend to settle onto inanimate objects such as the vial top.

The latter is one reason why it's standard medical practice to wipe off the stopper with alcohol before each use.

I'll also mention ampules are not "safer" bc they have cut nurses and patients alike.

The reason many Pharm injectables are only available in SINGLE DOSE VIALS? They greatly limit errors with respect to the transmission of communicable disease from one patient to the next!

If you get cut by a vial you need to be more caeful. I never have been. And by safer, obviously I wasn't referring to getting cut by glass which is off the subject here. And you are wrong about your theory that bacteria and yeasts in the air are only sitting on objects. They can remain suspended im the air for a LONG time. Indefinitely as a matter of fact because of air currents and how extremely light they are. Even visible dust which is orders of magnitude heavier than bacterias are suspended in the air always. Look at a light beam in your house and the air is literally PACKED with visible dust and the bacteria you can't even see. I have a super bright laser that reflects off all the dust in the air that is invisible until you turn it on. There is constantly dust and yeast and bacteria in every cubic inch of your house. I'm not giving opinions here but absolute facts.

 

[Ozzy619]

If you get cut by a vial you need to be more caeful. I never have been. And by safer, obviously I wasn't referring to getting cut by glass which is off the subject here. And you are wrong about your theory that bacteria and yeasts in the air are only sitting on objects. They can remain suspended im the air for a LONG time. Indefinitely as a matter of fact because of air currents. I'm not giving opinions here but absolute facts.

Can you cite these facts please?

 

[Ozzy619]

I didn't say pressurizeing it was necessary though just that no matter how you go about it the air goes in. In the medical practice vials are rarely if ever reused, this I know because of an ex girlfriend who was a RN and she always had to dispose of a vial no matter what was left after the injection.

I think there are much bigger factors at play here besides air and a vial over an amp. Biggest being the user and good hygiene. And I have seen only vials used in the medical setting, never seen an amp once.

 

[KingAlfred]

Can you cite these facts please?

You can look into it yourself if you think I'm wrong. I didn't just learn these things yesterday so obviously I don't have a list of references sitting here. One I already gave though, which was my ex gf who was a registered nurse. Otherwise it's knowlege I accumulated from reading.

 

[KingAlfred]

I think there are much bigger factors at play here besides air and a vial over an amp. Biggest being the user and good hygiene. And I have seen only vials used in the medical setting, never seen an amp once.

Did you miss the part where I said they don't reuse vials? Also I NEVER said the bacteria in the air was the ONLY factor. I said it was one factor noone had mentioned yet. Obviously proper sanitary procedure is the most important thing. I never said it wasn't. You should read what im saying more closely.

 

[Ozzy619]

You can look into it yourself if you think I'm wrong. I didn't just learn these things yesterday so obviously I don't have a list of references sitting here. One I already gave though, which was my ex gf who was a registered nurse. Otherwise it's knowlege I accumulated from reading.

Then this is an opinon. Second hand knowledge based on a specific set of guidelines where your gf worked does not establish a practiced scope by the entire medical world. And I don't have the time to research what you stated as fact. If I state something as fact I have the means to back it up from scholarly articles.

Did you miss the part where I said they don't reuse vials? Also I NEVER said the bacteria in the air was the ONLY factor. I said it was one factor noone had mentioned yet. Obviously proper sanitary procedure is the most important thing. I never said it wasn't. You should read what im saying more closely.

They do in fact reuse vials, I read what you posted very clearly. Get your "facts" straight. I think your "opinions" are a zero factor when it comes to infections was my point.

 

[Dr JIM]

Yea so what bacteria may cling to dust particles in the air and some of that air may gain entry into a multi-dose vial, BUT to suggest such a mechanism may increase the rate of infection IS BRO-SCIENCE and that's also a FACT!

Unless of course you can locate scientific evidence to the contrary, NOT!

 

[Dr JIM]

1) And you are wrong about your theory that bacteria and yeasts in the air are only sitting on objects.

2) They can remain suspended im the air for a LONG time.

There is constantly dust and yeast and bacteria in every cubic inch of your house.

I'm not giving opinions here but absolute facts.

1) I said: TEND to settle onto innamiate objects UNLESS your pinning in a dust storm. So why do you think I specifically mentioned DUST, or must I spell it all out for YOU!

2) But so what bacteria may cling to dust particles in the air and some of that air may gain entry into a multi-dose vial, BUT to suggest such a mechanism can increase the rate of infection IS BRO-SCIENCE and that's also a FACT!

Otherwise your nurse acquaintance would be required to FILTER air which is being injected into a multi-dose vial and I KNOW BETTER!

Unless of course you can locate scientific evidence to the contrary, NOT

Why don't you spend a little more time investigating bacterial counts in AIR and compare that to YOUR SKIN bc the former pales in comparison to the latter.

Such information's based on SCIENTIFIC FACTS and has practical applications bc SKIN FLORA is the responsible for the majority of infections related to parenterally administered drugs.

 

[Dr JIM]

There are occasions when "air filtering" can reduce the rate of infectious processes yet are generally confined to those patients who are HIGHLY IMMUNE0 COMPROMISED such as those on Chemotherapy, Bone Marrow Transplant Patients, or those with specific genetic disorders that alter WBC function or metabolism.

In those cases the PHARMACIST works under a "laminar Hood" which removes a large percentage of ambient bacteria, fungi and or yeasts.

But to suggest is smiler approach is warranted for AAS cyclists who otherwise use sterile technique is just utter nonsense.

Heck if I could convince the multitudes it's important to prep ones arse before pinning IT, i'd be delighted.