HCG timing and dosing for shut down recovery....logic behind it all ??

[masterpp]

cheers guys for pointing this out

great thread, though im not really sure of the conclusion to make. smale's statement that appropriate trt will maintain fertility, is reliant on the use of hcg.

my idea was that doing a half dosage, say 2.5mg of testogel, woulnt suppress the hpta too much as i would still be below baseline levels.

however some other chaps on the forum have suggested that the nature of taking exogenous testosterone, where by you take it all in one dosage, as opposed to the pulsatile nature of testicular function, means that the pituitary is tricked into believing there is more T there than there actually is.

I think icc alluded to this when he said that trippling the dossage of t shots had no greater effect on the hpta than a regular dosage, suggesting that any t supplementation will lead to a pretty uniform shut down.

is there any way to maintain pituitary gonadrophin function whilst on regular dosages of trt. CHlomid long term?- irregular dosing, ie one week on one week off?

 

[DLMCBBB]

cheers guys for pointing this out

great thread, though im not really sure of the conclusion to make. smale's statement that appropriate trt will maintain fertility, is reliant on the use of hcg.

my idea was that doing a half dosage, say 2.5mg of testogel, woulnt suppress the hpta too much as i would still be below baseline levels.

however some other chaps on the forum have suggested that the nature of taking exogenous testosterone, where by you take it all in one dosage, as opposed to the pulsatile nature of testicular function, means that the pituitary is tricked into believing there is more T there than there actually is.

I think icc alluded to this when he said that trippling the dossage of t shots had no greater effect on the hpta than a regular dosage, suggesting that any t supplementation will lead to a pretty uniform shut down.

is there any way to maintain pituitary gonadrophin function whilst on regular dosages of trt. CHlomid long term?- irregular dosing, ie one week on one week off?

I would think the obvious limitation of using Clomid in this way is that androgens themselves are quite capable of suppressing the HPTA independently of any aromatization. The Clomid would help block the effects of estrogen's negative feedback inhibition on the hypothalamus and pituitary, but it will do nothing to prevent androgen feedback suppression of LH production. HCG acts as synthetic LH to directly stimulate the testes, bypassing the problem just described that would arise if you simply attempted to use Clomid.

I would like to add that the androgenic inhibition no longer overcomes the positive benefits of estrogen antagonism at the HP for me around 250-300 mg per week. I think SWALE's cut off limit is around 200 mg.

On a side note, my LH levels are still nadir while above inhibition using intermittent doses of CC while on. I don't want to say that 2.5 g of Androgel ALWAYS causes complete inhibition. That would be patently false. There is just no way of hiding androgens from the HP

 

[DLMCBBB]

Mike,

Wouldn't HCG shots of 2500iu have a danger of causing leydig desensitization? At what point does this become a concern?

I don't think so initially after the first shot, as you are now in a state of transient hypogonadotrophism if you were. The testicular responsiveness to a single injection of hCG, say in your case 2500IU to maybe even in the range of 5,000IU is similar to that in prepubertal boys without any sign of steroidogenic lesion at the 17,20-desmolase step. This is the step we need to really stay focused on.

Dustin