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Help interpreting blood work during and immediately after PCT

kaizoku said:
a more intense PCT can be needed
Click to expand...
There's a difference between a more intense pct and leydig cell desensitization. Lot of people get confused and haven't heard about the studies on how much hcg is safe to run.

It is unlikely that one or two weeks of high hcg can cause leydig cell desensitization, but more than that it's a risk.

You can bring your balls back to life safely with 250ius of hcg twice a week (and after then start serms) and is relatively safe to run that dosage for long periods of time. More than that is playing with fire
 
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Docd187123 said:
There can be some slight overlap with HCG and SERMs during the PCT. When I don't have an answer for your questions I just try to confuse you and make you go in circles with my nonsense. Whatever it takes to not give you a straight answer or admit I'm a moron that don't have the answer for your question :)
Click to expand...
 
EcpertRealistic said:
There's a difference between a more intense pct and leydig cell desensitization. Lot of people get confused and haven't heard about the studies on how much hcg is safe to run.

It is unlikely that one or two weeks of high hcg can cause leydig cell desensitization, but more than that it's a risk.

You can bring your balls back to life safely with 250ius of hcg twice a week (and after then start serms) and is relatively safe to run that dosage for long periods of time. More than that is playing with fire
Click to expand...

And, just what are these studies? And, those that hCG doses higher than 250 IU will be harmful?

I'll give you the opportunity to provide the studies before I proceed to cut off your balls. Metaphorically, of course!
 

I’m just going to wait and hope you even try posting something so we all can get some laughs in VVVVV

Michael Scally MD said:
And, just what are these studies? And, those that hCG doses higher than 250 IU will be harmful?

I'll give you the opportunity to provide the studies before I proceed to cut off your balls. Metaphorically, of course!
Click to expand...
 
kaizoku said:
Off the bat, yes, I know that blood work results will be skewed due to the presence of SERMS in my system, and that it will take several more weeks until I know whether or not I'll really be recovered. And yes, I know the length of my "cycle" was foolish and that it will take me quite a while to recover from, if I do at all.

With that said, can anyone help me interpret what is going on with my levels?

Been on self-prescribed TRT dose of test cyp at 150mg/wk (2x75mg/wk) for 6 months.
Wife and I are planning on trying for a baby soon so I've decided to come off of everything and try to get back to "normal"

Pre-cycle bloods:
TT 311 ng/DL (348-1197)
LH 6.3 mIU/ML (1.7-8.6)
FSH 3.9 mIU/ML (1.5-12.4)
E2 24.2 pg/ML (7.6-42.6)

Now, these bloods were taken after a long weekend of drinking at a destination wedding, and approximately 6 months post-pct from my last cycle, so my test was probably suppressed a bit from lack of sleep, travel, alcohol, etc.

Now for my PCT and PCT blood work:
PCT was started 9 days after last injection and I started with an HCG blast for 4 weeks with 20mg ED of Nolva overlapping for 2 weeks before starting Clomid and continuing for 1 week after Clomid.

Week 1-4 HCG 2000iu E3D
Week 3-10 Nolva 20mg ED
Week 5-9 Clomid 100/100/50/50/25

Blood work at end of week 3:
TT 337
LH 4.5
FSH 4.3
E2 <15 (Did not do sensitive test)

Blood work 1 week post PCT (yesterday)
TT 371
LH 17.7 <WTF!
FSH 10.9
E2 7.9

My latest blood work is what concerns me.
With LH that high and test not much higher than where it was after 2 weeks of HCG and 1 week of Nolva, I'm concerned that my balls still aren't working and that all that LH is desensitizing my LH receptors and Leydig cells.

Can anyone help me interpret what any of this means?
I'm concerned that maybe I never recovered from my previous cycle, and don't know what to do next other than wait it out.
Click to expand...

And what make you believe these labs are not reflective of effective HTPA recovery?

I mean low dose TRT is not going to end your virility for months on end and at your dosages recovery may require a couple months, which is why “PCT” is unwarranted.

Yea I know but, but, but surprise surprise surprise contrary to “low T” blog misinformation a TT level above 300ng/dL is NORMAL for many folk!

Stop focusing on the “level” and obtain a sperm count, bc chances are (unless you have infertility issues in the past) it should be fine.

Jim
 
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kaizoku said:
Off the bat, yes, I know that blood work results will be skewed due to the presence of SERMS in my system, and that it will take several more weeks until I know whether or not I'll really be recovered. And yes, I know the length of my "cycle" was foolish and that it will take me quite a while to recover from, if I do at all.

With that said, can anyone help me interpret what is going on with my levels?

Been on self-prescribed TRT dose of test cyp at 150mg/wk (2x75mg/wk) for 6 months.
Wife and I are planning on trying for a baby soon so I've decided to come off of everything and try to get back to "normal"

Pre-cycle bloods:
TT 311 ng/DL (348-1197)
LH 6.3 mIU/ML (1.7-8.6)
FSH 3.9 mIU/ML (1.5-12.4)
E2 24.2 pg/ML (7.6-42.6)

Now, these bloods were taken after a long weekend of drinking at a destination wedding, and approximately 6 months post-pct from my last cycle, so my test was probably suppressed a bit from lack of sleep, travel, alcohol, etc.

Now for my PCT and PCT blood work:
PCT was started 9 days after last injection and I started with an HCG blast for 4 weeks with 20mg ED of Nolva overlapping for 2 weeks before starting Clomid and continuing for 1 week after Clomid.

Week 1-4 HCG 2000iu E3D
Week 3-10 Nolva 20mg ED
Week 5-9 Clomid 100/100/50/50/25

Blood work at end of week 3:
TT 337
LH 4.5
FSH 4.3
E2 <15 (Did not do sensitive test)

Blood work 1 week post PCT (yesterday)
TT 371
LH 17.7 <WTF!
FSH 10.9
E2 7.9

My latest blood work is what concerns me.
With LH that high and test not much higher than where it was after 2 weeks of HCG and 1 week of Nolva, I'm concerned that my balls still aren't working and that all that LH is desensitizing my LH receptors and Leydig cells.

Can anyone help me interpret what any of this means?
I'm concerned that maybe I never recovered from my previous cycle, and don't know what to do next other than wait it out.
Click to expand...

In your Avi the devil is eating the chick and banging her at the same time! That's fucking awesome lol
 
Dr JIM said:
And what make you believe these labs are not reflective of effective HTPA recovery?

I mean low dose TRT is not going to end your virility for months on end and at your dosages recovery may require a couple months, which is why “PCT” is unwarranted.

Yea I know but, but, but surprise surprise surprise contrary to “low T” blog misinformation a TT level above 300ng/dL is NORMAL for many folk!

Stop focusing on the “level” and obtain a sperm count, bc chances are (unless you have infertility issues in the past) it should be fine.

Jim
Click to expand...

That thought had crossed my mind, but I have a few reasons:
Prior to starting cycling my TT was 500-550. I have recovered to this level or near it after every cycle except this one.

After discontinuing SERMS before my latest blood work my testicles and scrotum were practically trying to crawl back up into my body and very painful.

When my test tanked back in May (~450 to ~300 practically overnight) I felt terrible. I'm pretty confident that ~300 TT is not my new normal level.

But...these are all anecdotal and I need hard evidence.

My wife and I want to start trying to get pregnant around June/July, so I will be scheduling a sperm count test in the near future.
 
kaizoku said:
That thought had crossed my mind, but I have a few reasons:
Prior to starting cycling my TT was 500-550. I have recovered to this level or near it after every cycle except this one.

After discontinuing SERMS before my latest blood work my testicles and scrotum were practically trying to crawl back up into my body and very painful.

When my test tanked back in May (~450 to ~300 practically overnight) I felt terrible. I'm pretty confident that ~300 TT is not my new normal level.

But...these are all anecdotal and I need hard evidence.

My wife and I want to start trying to get pregnant around June/July, so I will be scheduling a sperm count test in the near future.
Click to expand...

First buy a dozen ovulation tests for your wife, they are very cheap on eBay. Hmg and hcg should get you there within a few weeks. Start on 250ius hcg twice a week and a very low dose hmg 3 weeks prior your first try(when she expected to be ovulating; with ovulation tests you can create an ovulation patron) and ramp up to Bostyn Loyd dosages 4 days before expected ovulation.

I would be surprised if you miss your first try
 
EcpertRealistic said:
First buy a dozen ovulation tests for your wife, they are very cheap on eBay. Hmg and hcg should get you there within a few weeks. Start on 250ius hcg twice a week and a very low dose hmg 3 weeks prior your first try(when she expected to be ovulating; with ovulation tests you can create an ovulation patron) and ramp up to Bostyn Loyd dosages 4 days before expected ovulation.

I would be surprised if you miss your first try
Click to expand...


Capture.PNG

I need to apologize to those that pointed out just how much of a fucking idiot you are. I now see their point and agree.

Your pea brain was unable to provide the cites so instead you insert words into my post to infer a message apart from that written. [See Image Above]

Here is the actual post:

Michael Scally MD said:
There only needs to be a week overlap between hCG/SERM. The only reason why they were administered at the same time in the published studies was for patience compliance. It might seem easy, but getting patients to take meds according to different schedules is harder than it appears.
Click to expand...

You are one really sorry worthless shit pile.

Spermatogenesis takes ~100 days. The statement "should get you there within a few weeks" further shows your ignorance.

DWU4q8ZW0AE67ck.jpg
 
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Did the math and based on half-life I should have less than 5mg of Clomid still in my system on Monday 3/12, so I’ll start the HCG stim test that morning
 
Had blood drawn, waiting for results.
I’ve felt fantastic since shortly after starting the HCG stim test...balls are nice and plump, skin is oily, strong morning wood, etc.

Am I assuming the following correctly?

If TT has increased, and LH/FSH are low, discontinue HCG and start another round of SERM treatment?

If TT has increased and LH/FSH are normal, discontinue everything and wait to see what happens?
 
kaizoku said:
Had blood drawn, waiting for results.
I’ve felt fantastic since shortly after starting the HCG stim test...balls are nice and plump, skin is oily, strong morning wood, etc.

Am I assuming the following correctly?

If TT has increased, and LH/FSH are low, discontinue HCG and start another round of SERM treatment?

If TT has increased and LH/FSH are normal, discontinue everything and wait to see what happens?
Click to expand...

LH won’t be normal if you’re taking hcg. The hcg Stim test is just to measure the responsiveness of your testes in making testosterone.
 
Last edited:
Gotcha.

I’ll just wait until bloodwork comes back, post it, and go from there.

Anecdotally, I feel like test levels have definitely increased compared to where I was.
 
@Docd187123

Results just came back:

TT 563 ng/dL (Range 264-916)
E2 (sensitive) 13.7 pg/mL (8.0-35.0)
LH 11.4 mIU/mL (1.7-8.6)
FSH 7.5 mIU/mL (1.5-12.4)
SHBG 42.2 nmol/L (16.5-55.9)

So, looks like testes are working, or at least starting to work. Didn’t expect LH to still be so high. Concerned about SHBG creeping up.

Any suggestions on where to go from here?
 
Was tapering off Clomid at 12.5mg ED.
Last dose was 3/3/18.

Clomid was taken at weekly ED doses of 100/100/50/50/25/12.5.

LH is probably elevated from Clomid, just didn’t expect it to still be so high.
 
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