HGH sleep issues

400degrees

New Member
About a month in on ugl GH, 4iu every night before bed, 2hrs after dinner. First couple weeks it knocked me out all night. Past couple weeks I've been wide awake at 3am every night. Almost feels like a cortisol spike. Wondering if I should ride it out, switch to am, or if anyone has had the same experience or knows the possible science behind this regarding the gh interactions with prolactin, progesterone or adrenals.
 
It's a particularly dirty drug, one of it's side effects leptin resistance, might be an issue when combined with higher gh dosages. I forgot about this particular side and I'd actually think twice before recommending mirtazapine to enhanced users who use supraphysiological gh dosages.
I wonder if adding tirz to the stack might be a solution to counter the leptin resistance issues.

Mirtazapine does not directly cause leptin resistance, it can lead to weight gain and metabolic disturbances that may contribute to the development of leptin resistance.
 
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I am using 15mg/evening of Mirtazapine along with hgh&tirz and I can't complain but I am more than willing to take it out once I find someting better....

Has anyone experienced megadosing with Melatonin like 150-250 mg/night?
 
The increased leptin secretion and subsequent resistance is beyond pure changes in weight.


Results:
The mean ± SD body weight increased from 63.6 ± 13.1 kg to 66.6 ± 11.9 kg during mirtazapine treatment (p = .027). Fat mass increased in study subjects from 20.9 ± 9.6 kg to 22.1±9.3 kg (p=.018). Insulin, glucose, and the homeostasis model assessment (HOMA) index for insulin resistance and lipid parameters remained stable. Leptin concentrations increased from 23.0 ± 17.1 ng/mL to 40.9 ± 27.2 ng/mL (p = .018), whereas the soluble leptin receptor concentrations remained stable during mirtazapine treatment. In the control subjects, the investigated parameters remained stable

I got fat just reading the study results.
 



I got fat just reading the study results.

Haha indeed.

Histamine plays an important part in heat production, energy balance/expenditure beyond leptin. So decreasing histamine signaling, as far as I know, decreases energy expenditure. But it's also important for leptin signaling pathway. And beyond that it also ties in many other processes revolving around energy balance/expenditure (brown adipose tissue, neuropeptides, etc.). I mean, blocking histamine as profoundly as mirtazapine does (it's the strongest antihistaminergic psychotropic drug to my knowledge) just wrecks pure havoc; from the immune system, energy expenditure to friking gut motility. It's why I said it's a dirty drug. I tried justifying it's use once to myself, so I did a little research, but this is as far as I went.

What's interesting though is that it kinda seems that people who have poor sleep (certainly something which is highly influenced through the histamine - orexin systems) seem to be more on the skinny side and have an easier time loosing weight and a harder time gaining weight. Might be a connection there involving, broadly speaking, histamine. And such people might not be at such a peril when using antihistaminergic drugs.

I'm to tired and today I've been on-line way beyond what's mentally healthy for me, so I can't further debate/research this (albeit interesting) topic now. But it certainly does disrupt leptin beyond increases in BMI and it certainly does predispose one to weight gain beyond pure increases in appetite (which is also down to mirt's 5HT2c antagonism btw, not just it's anti histamine action).


 
Haha indeed.

Histamine plays an important part in heat production, energy balance/expenditure beyond leptin. So decreasing histamine signaling, as far as I know, decreases energy expenditure. But it's also important for leptin signaling pathway. And beyond that it also ties in many other processes revolving around energy balance/expenditure (brown adipose tissue, neuropeptides, etc.). I mean, blocking histamine as profoundly as mirtazapine does (it's the strongest antihistaminergic psychotropic drug to my knowledge) just wrecks pure havoc; from the immune system, energy expenditure to friking gut motility. It's why I said it's a dirty drug. I tried justifying it's use once to myself, so I did a little research, but this is as far as I went.

What's interesting though is that it kinda seems that people who have poor sleep (certainly something which is highly influenced through the histamine - orexin systems) seem to be more on the skinny side and have an easier time loosing weight and a harder time gaining weight. Might be a connection there involving, broadly speaking, histamine. And such people might not be at such a peril when using antihistaminergic drugs.

I'm to tired and today I've been on-line way beyond what's mentally healthy for me, so I can't further debate/research this (albeit interesting) topic now. But it certainly does disrupt leptin beyond increases in BMI and it certainly does predispose one to weight gain beyond pure increases in appetite (which is also down to mirt's 5HT2c antagonism btw, not just it's anti histamine action).


Get some rest man! Thanks for the link and thoughts. Very nice.
 
Haha indeed.

Histamine plays an important part in heat production, energy balance/expenditure beyond leptin. So decreasing histamine signaling, as far as I know, decreases energy expenditure. But it's also important for leptin signaling pathway. And beyond that it also ties in many other processes revolving around energy balance/expenditure (brown adipose tissue, neuropeptides, etc.). I mean, blocking histamine as profoundly as mirtazapine does (it's the strongest antihistaminergic psychotropic drug to my knowledge) just wrecks pure havoc; from the immune system, energy expenditure to friking gut motility. It's why I said it's a dirty drug. I tried justifying it's use once to myself, so I did a little research, but this is as far as I went.

What's interesting though is that it kinda seems that people who have poor sleep (certainly something which is highly influenced through the histamine - orexin systems) seem to be more on the skinny side and have an easier time loosing weight and a harder time gaining weight. Might be a connection there involving, broadly speaking, histamine. And such people might not be at such a peril when using antihistaminergic drugs.

I'm to tired and today I've been on-line way beyond what's mentally healthy for me, so I can't further debate/research this (albeit interesting) topic now. But it certainly does disrupt leptin beyond increases in BMI and it certainly does predispose one to weight gain beyond pure increases in appetite (which is also down to mirt's 5HT2c antagonism btw, not just it's anti histamine action).







I got fat just reading the study results.

More on mirtazapine: "Thus, high leptin levels apparently are ineffective in the control of weight gain, indicating leptin resistance" (ref).
 

500 mcg to 2 mg. But cjc has a long half life so like 2 mg 2 x a week or less. However for igf1 elevations you want 60 mcg / kg / week. I did experience better results on the night when I pinned then the next day ...

Mod grf I tried anything between 100 mcg up to 1 mg. I remember that 500 mcg was all right. The bigger the dose the better, ie. the longer the sleep benefits lasted. I also inject right before turning the lights off. But intranasal also worked.

I'd try tesamorelin ... Haven't tried it yet. I think it's effects last for some hours more then mod grf.
 
I am grateful for the 1 year of escitalopram that got me through the panic mode with AFIB/arythmmia. Maybe a smidge of mirtazipine with the escitalopram would be the ticket (although the leptin issue is deal breaker), but at this point I am going to keep things as simple as I can. Solving some of the sleep pressure issues would be beneficial for those gains and productivity though. Thanks again. Very helpful posts.
Did you sort your AFIB in the end? Did AAS induce it?

I may be genetically predisposed as my mother has it, and I share her higher-than-average RHR, so often worry about the possibility that I will end up with it at some point.
 
Did you sort your AFIB in the end? Did AAS induce it?

I may be genetically predisposed as my mother has it, and I share her higher-than-average RHR, so often worry about the possibility that I will end up with it at some point.
Yeah it did sort out. Thanks for asking.

I've got Hashimoto's and I am pretty sure the TRT/AAS exacerbated the issue (high TSH over 10 for a while; it was hard to control TSH once I started TRT with more standard T4 dosing). I now medicate with 336 mcg/day T4 and 12.5 mcg/day T3. The T4 amount is a whopping dose. Keeps my TSH stable at ~3.

Knock on wood but I haven't had any more AFIB incidents. Good learnings on the interplay of thyroid and AAS that I had to learn the hard way. AFIB can rear is head from being hypothyroid too, not just hyper.
 
Yeah it did sort out. Thanks for asking.

I've got Hashimoto's and I am pretty sure the TRT/AAS exacerbated the issue (high TSH over 10 for a while; it was hard to control TSH once I started TRT with more standard T4 dosing). I now medicate with 336 mcg/day T4 and 12.5 mcg/day T3. The T4 amount is a whopping dose. Keeps my TSH stable at ~3.

Knock on wood but I haven't had any more AFIB incidents. Good learnings on the interplay of thyroid and AAS that I had to learn the hard way. AFIB can rear is head from being hypothyroid too, not just hyper.
Thanks for the response. I'm glad you've got it under control. From what I hear, it's really uncomfortable. My Mum is currently on the waiting list for an ablation, so fingers crossed that will sort it for her as it's been years now, and so far, they have just been doing cardioversions, which usually fail within a couple of months.
 
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