HGH sleep issues

400degrees

New Member
About a month in on ugl GH, 4iu every night before bed, 2hrs after dinner. First couple weeks it knocked me out all night. Past couple weeks I've been wide awake at 3am every night. Almost feels like a cortisol spike. Wondering if I should ride it out, switch to am, or if anyone has had the same experience or knows the possible science behind this regarding the gh interactions with prolactin, progesterone or adrenals.
 
About a month in on ugl GH, 4iu every night before bed, 2hrs after dinner. First couple weeks it knocked me out all night. Past couple weeks I've been wide awake at 3am every night. Almost feels like a cortisol spike. Wondering if I should ride it out, switch to am, or if anyone has had the same experience or knows the possible science behind this regarding the gh interactions with prolactin, progesterone or adrenals.
The problem here is you release 50-70% of hgh during sleep so, you should reduce to 2 or 2.5ius and take the rest at some point during the day.
 
About a month in on ugl GH, 4iu every night before bed, 2hrs after dinner. First couple weeks it knocked me out all night. Past couple weeks I've been wide awake at 3am every night. Almost feels like a cortisol spike. Wondering if I should ride it out, switch to am, or if anyone has had the same experience or knows the possible science behind this regarding the gh interactions with prolactin, progesterone or adrenals.
 
So how do we make all of this information actionable?

I can read it, nod my head, pretend to understand, mutter, "Cortisol," oh, and "beta receptors," and pretend like I am keeping up in the conversation, but what do I then do about my hgh administration?
Direct effects of GH have no solution besides, er, not using GH. So, increased nighttime awakenings like the OP posted... if you don't want that, then the solution is to not take GH anymore, try reducing dose, take a break.

For GH lethargy, an inhibitor of 11β-HSD1 would be most selective, all the way through using adrenaline:
giphy.gif
 
So no hope of a restful sleep after 3:00 am if taken at night?

I split dose @ ~7am and ~6pm. Bedtime around 11. Sleep is good but I pretty much always get up to pee at least once. I don't remember the last time I slept for 8 hours straight but that goes back way before hGH.

Disclaimer: hGH never influenced my sleep quality but I have decent sleep hygiene so probably less likely to be affected (consistent pre-bed routine, no TV or doom scrolling on phone in bed, etc.)
 
I can read it, nod my head, pretend to understand, mutter, "Cortisol," oh, and "beta receptors,"

Don't forget vasopressin, also very important for sleep stability/fragmentation and I'm guessing GH probably affects it's release, receptor expression, ... if nothing else, via increases in plasma osmolality due to increased sodium retention ... : D

I'm not going to pretend like I know the answer to this, as I don't think the science community has a clear understanding of it, but anything that increases sleep pressure should help. Although any agents in this regard will have a noticeable effect on your brain chemistry (think sleep medications like H1 antagonists which increase SWS, ...) and overall mood/cognition.

For me, most of the awakenings happen during REM, so if I was to base my hypothetical over my personal experience I'd go in the direction of decreasing REM density (5HT1a agonists do this, for instance CBD) or maybe vice versa, increasing REM stability, make it harder to wake from REM (cholinergic's, I had success with phosphatidyl serine, although combining two drugs which make REM sleep more vivid might be a wild experience).

Also seeing how GH increases NREM2 and decreases SWS, anything that increases SWS should help. But now we are again at H1, 5HT2a antagonists, pregabalin, etc. GHRH (ie. cjc1295) which increases SWS might be worth a try. Maybe dual orexin receptor antagonists? but purportedly, they also tend to increase REM ...

In regards to cortisol I'd potentially try some natural adaptogens like bacopa or ashwagandha, rhodiola, as mentioned phosphatidyl, etc. But everything here will again have an effect on your mood/cognition and I'd be weary of ashwagandha.

One thing which is for sure is that what ever will down regulate/calm the HPA axis and the amygdala should help (providing that some deficits aren't the issue in the first place) as GH related sleep issues are most probably more prevalent in people who have problems in this department already. I'm talking about taking care of anxiety, stress, etc. It takes about 3 months for the HPA axis to normalize.https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.15252/msb.20209510 A hyperactive HPA axis will fragment your sleep as is and will react with a greater intensity to any agent which has an inclination of modulating it, GH being such a substance ofc.

Maybe there is a protocol out there which doesn't include the use of such psychotropic drugs, if so, I hope someday somebody finds it. I'd look at electrolytes and blood glucose management first ... I personally found that I was sleeping even poorer when sodium ingestion was higher for instance.
 
Don't forget vasopressin, also very important for sleep stability/fragmentation and I'm guessing GH probably affects it's release, receptor expression, ... if nothing else, via increases in plasma osmolality due to increased sodium retention ... : D

I'm not going to pretend like I know the answer to this, as I don't think the science community has a clear understanding of it, but anything that increases sleep pressure should help. Although any agents in this regard will have a noticeable effect on your brain chemistry (think sleep medications like H1 antagonists which increase SWS, ...) and overall mood/cognition.

For me, most of the awakenings happen during REM, so if I was to base my hypothetical over my personal experience I'd go in the direction of decreasing REM density (5HT1a agonists do this, for instance CBD) or maybe vice versa, increasing REM stability, make it harder to wake from REM (cholinergic's, I had success with phosphatidyl serine, although combining two drugs which make REM sleep more vivid might be a wild experience).

Also seeing how GH increases NREM2 and decreases SWS, anything that increases SWS should help. But now we are again at H1, 5HT2a antagonists, pregabalin, etc. GHRH (ie. cjc1295) which increases SWS might be worth a try. Maybe dual orexin receptor antagonists? but purportedly, they also tend to increase REM ...

In regards to cortisol I'd potentially try some natural adaptogens like bacopa or ashwagandha, rhodiola, as mentioned phosphatidyl, etc. But everything here will again have an effect on your mood/cognition and I'd be weary of ashwagandha.

One thing which is for sure is that what ever will down regulate/calm the HPA axis and the amygdala should help (providing that some deficits aren't the issue in the first place) as GH related sleep issues are most probably more prevalent in people who have problems in this department already. I'm talking about taking care of anxiety, stress, etc. It takes about 3 months for the HPA axis to normalize.https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.15252/msb.20209510 A hyperactive HPA axis will fragment your sleep as is and will react with a greater intensity to any agent which has an inclination of modulating it, GH being such a substance ofc.

Maybe there is a protocol out there which doesn't include the use of such psychotropic drugs, if so, I hope someday somebody finds it. I'd look at electrolytes and blood glucose management first ... I personally found that I was sleeping even poorer when sodium ingestion was higher for instance.
Mirtazapine would probably work really well. It can have some nasty side effects though in the morning...
 
Mirtazapine would probably work really well. It can have some nasty side effects though in the morning...

It's a particularly dirty drug, one of it's side effects leptin resistance, might be an issue when combined with higher gh dosages. I forgot about this particular side and I'd actually think twice before recommending mirtazapine to enhanced users who use supraphysiological gh dosages.
 
It's a particularly dirty drug, one of it's side effects leptin resistance, might be an issue when combined with higher gh dosages. I forgot about this particular side and I'd actually think twice before recommending mirtazapine to enhanced users who use supraphysiological gh dosages going back to your previous post.

Going back to your previous post about fragmented sleep and HGH. Have you actually tried taking CJC-1295 together with HGH before bed and did it work for you? I like the effects of HGH but just can't seem to tolerate it before bed...
 
nasty side effects though in the morning...

side effects leptin resistance

Great points. Tried 7.5 mg before bed once and then tried it again one more time a few weeks later (I know, dumbass move). You might as well just forget about the following day. Absolutely useless for the next 24 hours.

Makes you hungry and puts you in fat mode while also making you a zombie!
 
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Going back to your previous post about fragmented sleep and HGH. Have you actually tried taking CJC-1295 together with HGH before bed and did it work for you? I like the effects of HGH but just can't seem to tolerate it before bed...

Yes. It helped. The sleep promoting effects of GHRH aren't tied to GH release (which is blocked when on exogenous gh).
 
Great points. Tried 7.5 mg before bed once and then tried it again one more time a few weeks later (I know, dumbass move). You might as well just forget about the following day. Absolutely useless for the next 24 hours.

Makes you hungry and puts you in fat mood while also making you a zombie!

H1 receptors desensitize rather quickly. So the grogginess goes away with continued use. And the strong alpha adrenergic 2a antagonism is very stimulating, which counteracts the sedating antihistamine effects. This is why lower dosages are more sedating, namely around 3.5 - 4 mg think.

It's also the reason why mirtazapine can be very calming, especially if an ssri is added to the equation. You've got the sedating effects of H1 and lots of dopamine from a2a, which is mostly released in the PFC, where most of a2a receptors are located. But if you are sensitive to adrenergic stimulation, mirtazapine can be dangerous and this is when an ssri is a welcomed addition. I tried this combo once, and the feeling was as if "the war was over" as if "I've arrived to where I was running to my whole life", a rather pleasant feeling. I get a similar effect from yohimbine, but also must be paired with something to lower anxiety.
 
H1 receptors desensitize rather quickly. So the grogginess goes away with continued use. And the strong alpha adrenergic 2a antagonism is very stimulating, which counteracts the sedating antihistamine effects. This is why lower dosages are more sedating, namely around 3.5 - 4 mg think.

It's also the reason why mirtazapine can be very calming, especially if an ssri is added to the equation. You've got the sedating effects of H1 and lots of dopamine from a2a, which is mostly released in the PFC, where most of a2a receptors are located. But if you are sensitive to adrenergic stimulation, mirtazapine can be dangerous and this is when an ssri is a welcomed addition. I tried this combo once, and the feeling was as if "the war was over" as if "I've arrived to where I was running to my whole life", a rather pleasant feeling. I get a similar effect from yohimbine, but also must be paired with something to lower anxiety.
I am grateful for the 1 year of escitalopram that got me through the panic mode with AFIB/arythmmia. Maybe a smidge of mirtazipine with the escitalopram would be the ticket (although the leptin issue is deal breaker), but at this point I am going to keep things as simple as I can. Solving some of the sleep pressure issues would be beneficial for those gains and productivity though. Thanks again. Very helpful posts.
 
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