HGH sleep issues

[400degrees]

About a month in on ugl GH, 4iu every night before bed, 2hrs after dinner. First couple weeks it knocked me out all night. Past couple weeks I've been wide awake at 3am every night. Almost feels like a cortisol spike. Wondering if I should ride it out, switch to am, or if anyone has had the same experience or knows the possible science behind this regarding the gh interactions with prolactin, progesterone or adrenals.

 

[Jin23]

Only CJC-1295 or mixed with Ipa?

Only cjc. GHRP's aren't as good for promoting sleep as GHRH ...

 

[Ateam2023]

Someone I met one here who I deeply respect has had some success with Suvorexant.

My sleep pressure with AAS is trash.

Amazing summary, thank you Jin23.

readalot is back! Welllll Golllllllie

 

[Musmadar]

It's a particularly dirty drug, one of it's side effects leptin resistance, might be an issue when combined with higher gh dosages. I forgot about this particular side and I'd actually think twice before recommending mirtazapine to enhanced users who use supraphysiological gh dosages.

I wonder if adding tirz to the stack might be a solution to counter the leptin resistance issues.

Mirtazapine does not directly cause leptin resistance, it can lead to weight gain and metabolic disturbances that may contribute to the development of leptin resistance.

 

[Musmadar]

I am using 15mg/evening of Mirtazapine along with hgh&tirz and I can't complain but I am more than willing to take it out once I find someting better....

Has anyone experienced megadosing with Melatonin like 150-250 mg/night?

 

[AlexDavis43]

Someone I met one here who I deeply respect has had some success with Suvorexant.

My sleep pressure with AAS is trash.

Amazing summary, thank you Jin23.

I'm interested in this compound as well. Fixing circadian rhythms and perhaps making poor sleep hygiene less harmful to overall sleep quality. Like people who doom scroll on their phones in bed at night.

 

[Jin23]

Mirtazapine does not directly cause leptin resistance

The increased leptin secretion and subsequent resistance is beyond pure changes in weight.

*Not saying that leptin resistance is purely a by product of increased leptin secretion. That's more to do with the pure antihistaminergic action by it self ...

 

[readalot]

The increased leptin secretion and subsequent resistance is beyond pure changes in weight.

Effect of Mirtazapine Treatment on Body Composition and Metabolism

Article Abstract Objective: Weight gain is a common side effect of psychotropic medications. Mirtazapine, a widely used antidepressant, induces adverse metabolic effects such as an increase in body weight. The aim of this study was to investigate the influence of mirtazapine treatment on body...

www.psychiatrist.com

Results:
The mean ± SD body weight increased from 63.6 ± 13.1 kg to 66.6 ± 11.9 kg during mirtazapine treatment (p = .027). Fat mass increased in study subjects from 20.9 ± 9.6 kg to 22.1±9.3 kg (p=.018). Insulin, glucose, and the homeostasis model assessment (HOMA) index for insulin resistance and lipid parameters remained stable. Leptin concentrations increased from 23.0 ± 17.1 ng/mL to 40.9 ± 27.2 ng/mL (p = .018), whereas the soluble leptin receptor concentrations remained stable during mirtazapine treatment. In the control subjects, the investigated parameters remained stable

I got fat just reading the study results.

 

[Jin23]

Effect of Mirtazapine Treatment on Body Composition and Metabolism

Article Abstract Objective: Weight gain is a common side effect of psychotropic medications. Mirtazapine, a widely used antidepressant, induces adverse metabolic effects such as an increase in body weight. The aim of this study was to investigate the influence of mirtazapine treatment on body...

www.psychiatrist.com

I got fat just reading the study results.

Haha indeed.

Histamine plays an important part in heat production, energy balance/expenditure beyond leptin. So decreasing histamine signaling, as far as I know, decreases energy expenditure. But it's also important for leptin signaling pathway. And beyond that it also ties in many other processes revolving around energy balance/expenditure (brown adipose tissue, neuropeptides, etc.). I mean, blocking histamine as profoundly as mirtazapine does (it's the strongest antihistaminergic psychotropic drug to my knowledge) just wrecks pure havoc; from the immune system, energy expenditure to friking gut motility. It's why I said it's a dirty drug. I tried justifying it's use once to myself, so I did a little research, but this is as far as I went.

What's interesting though is that it kinda seems that people who have poor sleep (certainly something which is highly influenced through the histamine - orexin systems) seem to be more on the skinny side and have an easier time loosing weight and a harder time gaining weight. Might be a connection there involving, broadly speaking, histamine. And such people might not be at such a peril when using antihistaminergic drugs.

I'm to tired and today I've been on-line way beyond what's mentally healthy for me, so I can't further debate/research this (albeit interesting) topic now. But it certainly does disrupt leptin beyond increases in BMI and it certainly does predispose one to weight gain beyond pure increases in appetite (which is also down to mirt's 5HT2c antagonism btw, not just it's anti histamine action).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002944010601289

Central Infusion of Histamine Reduces Fat Accumulation and Upregulates UCP Family in Leptin-Resistant Obese Mice

Leptin resistance has recently been confirmed not only in animal obese models but in human obesity. Evidence is rapidly emerging that suggests that activat

diabetesjournals.org

 

[hghlover]

readalot is back! Welllll Golllllllie

The man, the myth, the legend, there can be only one!

 

[readalot]

Haha indeed.

Histamine plays an important part in heat production, energy balance/expenditure beyond leptin. So decreasing histamine signaling, as far as I know, decreases energy expenditure. But it's also important for leptin signaling pathway. And beyond that it also ties in many other processes revolving around energy balance/expenditure (brown adipose tissue, neuropeptides, etc.). I mean, blocking histamine as profoundly as mirtazapine does (it's the strongest antihistaminergic psychotropic drug to my knowledge) just wrecks pure havoc; from the immune system, energy expenditure to friking gut motility. It's why I said it's a dirty drug. I tried justifying it's use once to myself, so I did a little research, but this is as far as I went.

What's interesting though is that it kinda seems that people who have poor sleep (certainly something which is highly influenced through the histamine - orexin systems) seem to be more on the skinny side and have an easier time loosing weight and a harder time gaining weight. Might be a connection there involving, broadly speaking, histamine. And such people might not be at such a peril when using antihistaminergic drugs.

I'm to tired and today I've been on-line way beyond what's mentally healthy for me, so I can't further debate/research this (albeit interesting) topic now. But it certainly does disrupt leptin beyond increases in BMI and it certainly does predispose one to weight gain beyond pure increases in appetite (which is also down to mirt's 5HT2c antagonism btw, not just it's anti histamine action).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002944010601289

Central Infusion of Histamine Reduces Fat Accumulation and Upregulates UCP Family in Leptin-Resistant Obese Mice

Leptin resistance has recently been confirmed not only in animal obese models but in human obesity. Evidence is rapidly emerging that suggests that activat

diabetesjournals.org

Get some rest man! Thanks for the link and thoughts. Very nice.

 

[hghlover]

Only cjc. GHRP's aren't as good for promoting sleep as GHRH ...

Did you do 100 mcg before sleep? That would make a standard 2 mg vial last 20 days. Pretty cheap, assuming it's shelf life lasts that long? I'm intrigued