High E2?

[Shiza]

Hello everyone I hope the holidays are doing you all well.. I'm curious for input.

I've been on a 500/week test E cycle for 4.5 weeks (first one) and am loving it. I'm actually thinking of going up to 600/week as I will have leftover oil at 500/week. I initially planned to run Aromasin during my cycle but I was very concerned about crashing my E2. I have decided to play it by ear as so many people do (start taking AI and SERM as needed if symptoms arise) as this also allows me to truly gauge how my body reacts to Test.

I noticed some minor, *possible* tenderness in my nipples but no serious itching or burning sensation. My nips are not always hard and there's no lump underneath the nipples that I can feel. I say possible because I've definitely touched them to see if there's any lumps or soft tissue developing underneath which may cause additional tenderness. I have noticed they feel slightly different, but it isn't overwhelming or painful in any way. I figured this had to do with my levels of E2 rising, but I'm not sure that it merits running Aromasin yet. My initial plan was to run Aromasin on cycle to be safe, but I'm pretty concerned about crashing my E2. To me, it seems like taking additional drugs without the need welcomes unnecessary side effects.

The facts:
1. I have Aromasin along with Nolva, Clomid, and Torem.
2. I'm up good weight and don't look super bloated.
3. My libido is still here and kind of excessive.. One day 2 weeks ago I noticed I had issues staying hard, but that happened one time and hasn't since (could just be how often I was piping).
4. I've had a few moments where I had very minor depressive episodes that lasted hardly any time (I'm guessing the spike in E2 or just unrelated to AAS altogether).

My questions:
1. I'm curious to know firsthand how some of you guys gauge and know when to start taking an AI.. I know and have read that itchy/painful/hard/burning/puffy nips are an indicator.. Should any of those be EXTREMELY obvious, or kind of how I described it above (barely noticeable..minor at best). Like, should puffy nips be super obvious? Should they practically hurt?I haven't seen an exact answer on this and am curious.

2. Should I just run Aromasin?.. If I start dosing Aromasin, what can I take to assure that I don't crash E2? I've seen as low as 6.25 EOD and 12.5 EOD as a starting point.. but know everyone's different.

3. Should the *very* minimal, occasional mood change (may be unrelated) be taken as a sign of high E2?

4. How much weight should I approximately expect to put on if my diet is in check and I'm running 500-600 mg Test E if I'm already up 8 lbs in 4.5 weeks (just curious)?


***I'm sorry it's so long winded, but I'm curious for some opinions as this cycle is what I will base everything off of in the future... I want to make sure I notice and pickup on things when I need to.

Happy holidays everyone!

 

[Dr JIM]

Hello everyone I hope the holidays are doing you all well.. I'm curious for input.

I've been on a 500/week test E cycle for 4.5 weeks (first one) and am loving it. I'm actually thinking of going up to 600/week as I will have leftover oil at 500/week. I initially planned to run Aromasin during my cycle but I was very concerned about crashing my E2. I have decided to play it by ear as so many people do (start taking AI and SERM as needed if symptoms arise) as this also allows me to truly gauge how my body reacts to Test.

I noticed some minor, *possible* tenderness in my nipples but no serious itching or burning sensation. My nips are not always hard and there's no lump underneath the nipples that I can feel. I say possible because I've definitely touched them to see if there's any lumps or soft tissue developing underneath which may cause additional tenderness. I have noticed they feel slightly different, but it isn't overwhelming or painful in any way. I figured this had to do with my levels of E2 rising, but I'm not sure that it merits running Aromasin yet. My initial plan was to run Aromasin on cycle to be safe, but I'm pretty concerned about crashing my E2. To me, it seems like taking additional drugs without the need welcomes unnecessary side effects.

The facts:
1. I have Aromasin along with Nolva, Clomid, and Torem.
2. I'm up good weight and don't look super bloated.
3. My libido is still here and kind of excessive.. One day 2 weeks ago I noticed I had issues staying hard, but that happened one time and hasn't since (could just be how often I was piping).
4. I've had a few moments where I had very minor depressive episodes that lasted hardly any time (I'm guessing the spike in E2 or just unrelated to AAS altogether).

My questions:
1. I'm curious to know firsthand how some of you guys gauge and know when to start taking an AI.. I know and have read that itchy/painful/hard/burning/puffy nips are an indicator.. Should any of those be EXTREMELY obvious, or kind of how I described it above (barely noticeable..minor at best). Like, should puffy nips be super obvious? Should they practically hurt?I haven't seen an exact answer on this and am curious.

2. Should I just run Aromasin?.. If I start dosing Aromasin, what can I take to assure that I don't crash E2? I've seen as low as 6.25 EOD and 12.5 EOD as a starting point.. but know everyone's different.

3. Should the *very* minimal, occasional mood change (may be unrelated) be taken as a sign of high E2?

4. How much weight should I approximately expect to put on if my diet is in check and I'm running 500-600 mg Test E if I'm already up 8 lbs in 4.5 weeks (just curious)?


***I'm sorry it's so long winded, but I'm curious for some opinions as this cycle is what I will base everything off of in the future... I want to make sure I notice and pickup on things when I need to.

Happy holidays everyone!

Bc the signs and symptoms of a “high or low” E-2 are vague and unreliable, I don’t know why anyone posts an E-2 “concern” in the absence of LABS

 

[ironwill1951]

labs are the only way to know. for many years I thought my e2 was fine because I had no sides that indicated it was high or low, when I did bloods it was 135 4 times what it should be.

 

[Inmate]

The first 2 responses took the words right out of my mouth. Like ironwill1951, I was also surprised by bloods. While running my second cycle consisting of 30mgs daily Dbol and 500mgs weekly Test, I began having nipple sensitivity. Tender to the touch and even with the movement of my shirts. I got bloods done and my e2 was just barely out of range when I was convinced I needed to really adjust my ai. Just get your levels checked. Having definitive answers about where you stand during cycle is totally worth the time.

 

[Shiza]

Bc the signs and symptoms of a “high or low” E-2 are vague and unreliable, I don’t know why anyone posts an E-2 “concern” in the absence of LABS

labs are the only way to know. for many years I thought my e2 was fine because I had no sides that indicated it was high or low, when I did bloods it was 135 4 times what it should be.

The first 2 responses took the words right out of my mouth. Like ironwill1951, I was also surprised by bloods. While running my second cycle consisting of 30mgs daily Dbol and 500mgs weekly Test, I began having nipple sensitivity. Tender to the touch and even with the movement of my shirts. I got bloods done and my e2 was just barely out of range when I was convinced I needed to really adjust my ai. Just get your levels checked. Having definitive answers about where you stand during cycle is totally worth the time.

I agree with all you're saying. I had already planned on getting BW done around week 5 once my levels have completely stabilized.. So I'll have more to add within a week or so. Since I'm likely upping the dose it won't show the whole T picture, but I'm curious where I stand with everything. I'd be psyched to know I don't have to take an AI with 500-600 mg/week. Honestly, I've felt great!

I started this thread mostly because I'm curious to hear what generally causes people to jump on an AI.. Do they have extreme itchy/sore nips? Do they have extreme lethargy? Are they bloating like crazy? Or is it all barely noticeable? Most of what I've read just states "I noticed I had some itchy nips so I hopped on an AI". Vague to me. BW will tell exactly what's going on, but going off of feel prior to BW results I'm curious how it's gauged.

I'm also curious - at this rate - How much weight and how much muscle would you guys expect me to put on if my diet is in check and I'm running 500-600 mg Test E if I'm already up 8 lbs in 4.5 weeks (just curious)?

Thanks for anyone that takes the time to read.. Hope everyone's Christmas has been as great as mine has

 

[RealET]

Without labs you could take a SMALL maintenance dose. If your joints become sore, low energy etc you’re probably taking too much and should take less.

That’s how I gauge for myself. Labs are always the best choice. Watch for bloat/water retention as that will generally come before your tits

As for gains, my first cycle was just like yours and I noticed a peak in my physique at around weeks 8-10 from pictures. Although it seemed like my body changed, I’d only gained 8lbs up until week 8-9. Then all of a sudden week 10 from what almost seemed like overnight my strength shot up and I mean fucking shot up and I gained 10lbs with no noticeable physique change (in my opinion). So in total I gained 18lbs with not much water retention

 

[Throwback]

Op...
At this point continue with no ai.
At 7 weeks pull bloods.
Compare them to your precycle numbers.
Dont freak out if your e2 is in the 40 to 60 range...m
If your e2 is high 60s upward the most common initial symptom that your getting close to the e2 being to high will be emotional.
Like easily tearing up at puppy commercials or nearly sobbing during a chick flick/hallmark moment.
Thats how i know when the symptoms taken alongside validating bloodwork need to be addressed.
For me emotional symptoms show up usually with e2 in the 70s sometimes a lil higher.
Without an ai expect some puffiness in your nipples due to fluid retention....it can look alot like early gyno....but unless your prone or its pre existing...the nipple puffiness is likely fluid retention only.
If your bf % is lower than 18%... and your average converting test to e2...you may not need the ai at all.
Running e2 high has its own merits when adding mass so a higher e2 value is not a bad thing.
Im in a couple trt groups that are huge groups and half if not most of those guys feel best with e2 in the 40 to mid 50 range.
So i would give it 2 more weeks pull bloods...post again the number and how your feeling.....then decide.

 

[Throwback]

I agree with all you're saying. I had already planned on getting BW done around week 5 once my levels have completely stabilized.. So I'll have more to add within a week or so. Since I'm likely upping the dose it won't show the whole T picture, but I'm curious where I stand with everything. I'd be psyched to know I don't have to take an AI with 500-600 mg/week. Honestly, I've felt great!

I started this thread mostly because I'm curious to hear what generally causes people to jump on an AI.. Do they have extreme itchy/sore nips? Do they have extreme lethargy? Are they bloating like crazy? Or is it all barely noticeable? Most of what I've read just states "I noticed I had some itchy nips so I hopped on an AI". Vague to me. BW will tell exactly what's going on, but going off of feel prior to BW results I'm curious how it's gauged.

I'm also curious - at this rate - How much weight and how much muscle would you guys expect me to put on if my diet is in check and I'm running 500-600 mg Test E if I'm already up 8 lbs in 4.5 weeks (just curious)?

Thanks for anyone that takes the time to read.. Hope everyone's Christmas has been as great as mine has

The one thing you are thinking about correctly from the beginning is dont add shit you dont need.
Adding drugs ...and they all have sides..is the last thing you want unless its needed.

 

[Shiza]

Without labs you could take a SMALL maintenance dose. If your joints become sore, low energy etc you’re probably taking too much and should take less.

That’s how I gauge for myself. Labs are always the best choice. Watch for bloat/water retention as that will generally come before your tits

As for gains, my first cycle was just like yours and I noticed a peak in my physique at around weeks 8-10 from pictures. Although it seemed like my body changed, I’d only gained 8lbs up until week 8-9. Then all of a sudden week 10 from what almost seemed like overnight my strength shot up and I mean fucking shot up and I gained 10lbs with no noticeable physique change (in my opinion). So in total I gained 18lbs with not much water retention

Wow alright .. So your thought is to take a small amount of AI and if you get joint pain back off a bit... I'll have labs in 1-2 weeks. Throwback below is recommending 7 weeks in.. I'll probably do 6 weeks as that is basically 1-1.5 weeks from now. I'm amazed already at the weight gain and strength increases.. I have some water retention no doubt, but at most I've gained 1-2 lbs of fat out of 8 lbs gained weight. I've increased my protein intake and a bit more carbs so that adds to it as well.. But I'm just so curious to know how much I'll add..I'm guessing around 18-25 based on what I've read and what you've said.

Op...
At this point continue with no ai.
At 7 weeks pull bloods.
Compare them to your precycle numbers.
Dont freak out if your e2 is in the 40 to 60 range...m
If your e2 is high 60s upward the most common initial symptom that your getting close to the e2 being to high will be emotional.
Like easily tearing up at puppy commercials or nearly sobbing during a chick flick/hallmark moment.
Thats how i know when the symptoms taken alongside validating bloodwork need to be addressed.
For me emotional symptoms show up usually with e2 in the 70s sometimes a lil higher.
Without an ai expect some puffiness in your nipples due to fluid retention....it can look alot like early gyno....but unless your prone or its pre existing...the nipple puffiness is likely fluid retention only.
If your bf % is lower than 18%... and your average converting test to e2...you may not need the ai at all.
Running e2 high has its own merits when adding mass so a higher e2 value is not a bad thing.
Im in a couple trt groups that are huge groups and half if not most of those guys feel best with e2 in the 40 to mid 50 range.
So i would give it 2 more weeks pull bloods...post again the number and how your feeling.....then decide.

This is great advice I think.. Thanks for the input! Between 1-2 weeks I'll pull bloods.. Maybe as late as 7 weeks as I'll be upping the dose to 600 mg/week so it may be more stabilized.. If I experience obvious puffiness or itching in the nips I'll hop on a low dose of Aromasin .. Maybe like 6.25 EOD to start? Or 12.5 EOD?

 

[Throwback]

Dont stay so focused on the titties...its secondary to emotion libido drop and ed issues associated with high e2.
I cant say on the aromisin dose cuz ive never used it.....only used arimidex personally.
If you do use any ai and i wouldnt unless i had pulled bloods already you wont need much to just knock it back.
You dont want to knock it so far back that your joints etc are sore cuz then your in the close to crashed level and you lose the synergy of the higher e2 level working alongside the higher test levels for mass growth.
Sore joints are a good way to gauge if you have used enough ai if you dont or cant get bloods but u really need to know your body well.

 

[Shiza]

Dont stay so focused on the titties...its secondary to emotion libido drop and ed issues associated with high e2.
I cant say on the aromisin dose cuz ive never used it.....only used arimidex personally.
If you do use any ai and i wouldnt unless i had pulled bloods already you wont need much to just knock it back.
You dont want to knock it so far back that your joints etc are sore cuz then your in the close to crashed level and you lose the synergy of the higher e2 level working alongside the higher test levels for mass growth.
Sore joints are a good way to gauge if you have used enough ai if you dont or cant get bloods but u really need to know your body well.

Understood.. I'll monitor closely as I have and assume that I don't need to jump on AI until signs are pretty apparent.. I'll post bloods in 1-2 weeks and go from there.

Thank you much for the input everyone

 

[EcpertRealistic]

Hello everyone I hope the holidays are doing you all well.. I'm curious for input.

I've been on a 500/week test E cycle for 4.5 weeks (first one) and am loving it. I'm actually thinking of going up to 600/week as I will have leftover oil at 500/week. I initially planned to run Aromasin during my cycle but I was very concerned about crashing my E2. I have decided to play it by ear as so many people do (start taking AI and SERM as needed if symptoms arise) as this also allows me to truly gauge how my body reacts to Test.

I noticed some minor, *possible* tenderness in my nipples but no serious itching or burning sensation. My nips are not always hard and there's no lump underneath the nipples that I can feel. I say possible because I've definitely touched them to see if there's any lumps or soft tissue developing underneath which may cause additional tenderness. I have noticed they feel slightly different, but it isn't overwhelming or painful in any way. I figured this had to do with my levels of E2 rising, but I'm not sure that it merits running Aromasin yet. My initial plan was to run Aromasin on cycle to be safe, but I'm pretty concerned about crashing my E2. To me, it seems like taking additional drugs without the need welcomes unnecessary side effects.

The facts:
1. I have Aromasin along with Nolva, Clomid, and Torem.
2. I'm up good weight and don't look super bloated.
3. My libido is still here and kind of excessive.. One day 2 weeks ago I noticed I had issues staying hard, but that happened one time and hasn't since (could just be how often I was piping).
4. I've had a few moments where I had very minor depressive episodes that lasted hardly any time (I'm guessing the spike in E2 or just unrelated to AAS altogether).

My questions:
1. I'm curious to know firsthand how some of you guys gauge and know when to start taking an AI.. I know and have read that itchy/painful/hard/burning/puffy nips are an indicator.. Should any of those be EXTREMELY obvious, or kind of how I described it above (barely noticeable..minor at best). Like, should puffy nips be super obvious? Should they practically hurt?I haven't seen an exact answer on this and am curious.

2. Should I just run Aromasin?.. If I start dosing Aromasin, what can I take to assure that I don't crash E2? I've seen as low as 6.25 EOD and 12.5 EOD as a starting point.. but know everyone's different.

3. Should the *very* minimal, occasional mood change (may be unrelated) be taken as a sign of high E2?

4. How much weight should I approximately expect to put on if my diet is in check and I'm running 500-600 mg Test E if I'm already up 8 lbs in 4.5 weeks (just curious)?


***I'm sorry it's so long winded, but I'm curious for some opinions as this cycle is what I will base everything off of in the future... I want to make sure I notice and pickup on things when I need to.

Happy holidays everyone!

I'm sorry to tell you but you are a jackass. You run 500mggs test er week with absolutely no AI? At least you should have been running 12.5mgs Aromasin twice a week to mitigate estrogen sides, until your blood work and adjust from there.

Nipple sensitivity and still thinking undecided to control or not your estrogen? I don't know wtf you have on your mind but you one of those idiots who are living on a fantasy world.

 

[Cramps88]

Without bloods you can't tell him the exact dose he should take because how every persons body will react to test and an ai differently. I'm running 750 test e and only take 6.25mgs of aromasin per week and I'm fine but I do bloods so I know how to dial it in while on cycle. If he is getting sides then he should probably take an ai but the dose will be body dependant. The dose you suggested could very well crash his e2. He needs to start low get bloods and adjust from there.

 

[NFRCR]

Without bloods you can't tell him the exact dose he should take because how every persons body will react to test and an ai differently. I'm running 750 test e and only take 6.25mgs of aromasin per week and I'm fine but I do bloods so I know how to dial it in while on cycle. If he is getting sides then he should probably take an ai but the dose will be body dependant. The dose you suggested could very well crash his e2. He needs to start low get bloods and adjust from there.

How many days after taking Aromasin are you usually doing bloods? It's really not suitable for such infrequent dosing.

 

[Cramps88]

I'll take my ai mid week around Wednesday last pin on Friday then bloods Monday morning for my mids. Unless I'm running multiple aromitizing compounds I don't take a whole lot of ai. Once a week keeps the bloat down from the test e and unless I'm getting other sides I try to run as little as possible. I don't mind my e2 numbers being out of range as long as I don't suffer any sides.

 

[Cramps88]

My last cycle I had to take 12.5 aromas on pin days to keep everything in check because I was running 900 test/600 npp. I listen to my body instead of chasing numbers.

 

[Shiza]

I'm sorry to tell you but you are a jackass. You run 500mggs test er week with absolutely no AI? At least you should have been running 12.5mgs Aromasin twice a week to mitigate estrogen sides, until your blood work and adjust from there.

Nipple sensitivity and still thinking undecided to control or not your estrogen? I don't know wtf you have on your mind but you one of those idiots who are living on a fantasy world.

It's minor sensitivity at best and I never had any major burning, pain, or extreme tenderness. I had some kind of sensation in my pec but I figured it was unrelated.. I've read that some minor sensitivity is normal when introducing your body to AAS and is not automatically indicative of gyno or major E2.

I've read a lot of people don't advise using an AI unless needed and I anticipated the sides to be more obvious so I never started my Aromasin. I'm still unclear if I've even had any sides or if I'm just paranoid like so many are.. It's all something new for me to diagnose so it's hard to say.

I was anticipating something more apparent. Honestly I'm still not even sure IF I have any puffiness or additional sensitivity.. Comparing pictures of my nips from 6 weeks ago they basically look the same and I haven't been bitchy due to extra high E2, nor have I experienced insane bloating (I do notice some seems minimal).

It's all new to me and I'm definitely no idiot. I got worried about crashing E2 since I have no idea how sensitive I am to AIs. I also had started reading that multiple people don't even necessarily need one.

 

[EcpertRealistic]

It's minor sensitivity at best and I never had any major burning, pain, or extreme tenderness. I had some kind of sensation in my pec but I figured it was unrelated.. I've read that some minor sensitivity is normal when introducing your body to AAS and is not automatically indicative of gyno or major E2.

I've read a lot of people don't advise using an AI unless needed and I anticipated the sides to be more obvious so I never started my Aromasin. I'm still unclear if I've even had any sides or if I'm just paranoid like so many are.. It's all something new for me to diagnose so it's hard to say.

I was anticipating something more apparent. Honestly I'm still not even sure IF I have any puffiness or additional sensitivity.. Comparing pictures of my nips from 6 weeks ago they basically look the same and I haven't been bitchy due to extra high E2, nor have I experienced insane bloating (I do notice some seems minimal).

It's all new to me and I'm definitely no idiot. I got worried about crashing E2 since I have no idea how sensitive I am to AIs. I also had started reading that multiple people don't even necessarily need one.

Estrogen is the bodybuilder worst enemy. If you are a powerlifter and you don't give a f*ck about looking like the Michelin man then I shut my mouth. You will think your genetics suck if your estrogen is high along your cycle.

500mgs will easily throw your estrogen around 200. If you don't get gyno it's a miracle. You will for sure hold water, look fat and soft.

12.5mgs twice a week Aromasin is still a low dosage for 500mgs of test/week but will sure help bring that probable 200 down a bit.

 

[Cramps88]

@Roger rabbit. ^

 

[Roger rabbit]

500 mg of testosterone won't escalate your estrogen to 200 for everybody. This might be the case for some, but at 500mg testosterone if I took 12.5 mg twice a week of aromisin id crash my e2.

Each person needs to run before, during and after cycle lab work to.

If this is a first or even second cycle of testosterone then you need more blood work during the cycle to dial in the anti e.

If one were to choose to later run a cycle with more compounds later on then they should repeat the same blood work several times during cycle to see how that compound is affecting them and adjust from there.