HPLC/MS Analysis on Various Substances *RESULTS*

[Dr JIM]

It's amazing how little attention this thread has gotten. What capt and dr Jim are doing is fantastic and I think the best thing that has ever happened to this forum. Meanwhile people are debating the for and color of labmax tests which makes no sense whatsoever. Save your money guys, and hope this testing takes off

Oh how true! But as is often the case, some literally enjoy the opportunity to blindly criticize the efforts of others, somehow believing they are providing a "community service", while others are interested in CONTRIBUTING so ALL may benefit!

 

[Kinikuman]

Oh how true! But as is often the case, some literally enjoy the opportunity to blindly criticize the efforts of others, somehow believing they are providing a "community service", while others are interested in CONTRIBUTING so ALL may benefit!

Question of the day is - If a lowly member of this board using his own limited resources can get this kind of testing done without any "special connections", then why can't these sources do the same with a small portion of their extraordinary profits? Now that we have definitive evidence that it can be done by anyone, there should be no excuse for any source to put out sub-standard gear. Will we see real change, though? Not from most. They will keep doing business as usual because that's the kind of people they are. Much easier to sell bunk Tren at 70 bucks a jug than toss the kilo of shitty raws you bought - so the cost is passed on to the consumer (us) in more ways than one.

 

[Dr JIM]

Interesting you mentioned the very issue I've explored at least to a limited extent.

To that end of the FOUR UGLs whose Test-E I tested (using a different name, requesting a one ML quantity only useful for analytical purposes, and a meager $100 fee) NOT ONE LAB requested additional testing on their remaining products once informed of the results,

Those results, again ALL were under dosed by at least 60 to 80%, contained only negligible amounts of AAS or were not the anabolic agent listed on the vial.

How can this be? Well the fact is bc many UGLs buy in relatively large quantities, KNOWING what they are selling is BUNK limits their options once confronted by forum members about the quality of the products sold.

Excluding the unknown frequency of UGLs deliberately stepping on their raws, understand the funds have already been spent.

Because any recourse with raw suppliers is quite limited they are pretty much screwed.

I mean the notion of raw suppliers refunding prior expenditures for a trashed product or providing "credit" towards another purchase, is what dreams are made of, so dream on

(Obviously those labs whom have an established high volume and secure relationship with a raw source, might would be an exception.)

The later likely the consequence of multiple middle men being involved before an UGL sale comes to fruition.

Of course it's not to surprising every one of these labs closed their doors some time ago, lol!

 

[barbelle]

Question of the day is - If a lowly member of this board using his own limited resources can get this kind of testing done without any "special connections", then why can't these sources do the same with a small portion of their extraordinary profits?

Playing the devils advocate, a source takes a much bigger risk getting tests done like this (from what I understand, a scientist in need of extra cash) than a random user. Besides, if the sources posted their results, we wouldn't trust them anyway.

 

[Dr JIM]

^^^^^ Their risk is likely MUCH lower bc the raw testing could easily be conducted outside of the USA.

The results WOLUD be trusted IF and only if they were legit and therefore included the many features of a bonified chemical analysis.

I've NEVER seen that done by an UGL and if you want an example of what might be missing, check out the NAPS thread where I list about 10.

Fact is I queried why these components were omitted from NAPs assays, yet NEVER received a reply.

Now that's telling, IMO, bc I'm not even a chemist fella but am fully aware of what the analytical standard is and those tests fall short by ANY registered or approved laboratory governing body.

 

[Kinikuman]

What I find really fascinating is that a staple product like Test is being so severely underdosed. But I think I see the lab's reasoning: most guys will Labmax at best. This only shows you that some hormone may be present at a very low concentration. So, all that Slimeball Labs and Lowlife Pharma have to do is use the right carrier oil to light up that UV and dose just to a level that gives a good Labmax result... Bam! Instant sales! And the poor consumer has to PIN 20ml a week just to get his TRT dose in.

I think we have discovered the new 10x rule for sources! Dose at 1/10th for 10x profit...

 

[Kinikuman]

Playing the devils advocate, a source takes a much bigger risk getting tests done like this (from what I understand, a scientist in need of extra cash) than a random user. Besides, if the sources posted their results, we wouldn't trust them anyway.

Doesn't matter if they post. Better that they don't, as you mention. But not testing is the source simply turning a blind eye to what they know may well be a bad product. Jim spells out the economics of it quite well above. Smaller sources are at the mercy of the raw supplier and will almost always make the consumer eat the costs of his purchasing mistakes. Big ones may have leverage with the raw supplier but still make the consumer eat it in the end. Even though they don't have to. What does that tell you?

Myself, I would prefer the source that tested his raws prior to sale, discarded all products that don't meet a certain standard of quality and adjusted prices on remaining products accordingly. Yeah, I may pay an extra 10 per jug for some Test E, but that doesn't bother me because I know this guy has tested his stuff with something bigger than an ampule. If it says 250/ml I can be assured it's darn close to that. This might not be the absolute most profitable model for a UGL, but I do think it would be one of the most sustainable and problem-free.

 

[curgen]

however, you'll lose all your business, why set up an operation to run for 2 months. with startup costs, I doubt you'd make any money

Again, it's all about the delay in noticing results or getting bloodwork done. A UGL can set up, advertise for free on any number of forums capturing thousands of eyeballs, build a solid rep with strong product in a short time (labmax, early adopter bloodwork), then immediately begin underdosing. Those that get underdosed gear will still see SOME results and likely chalk up their poor results to other factors like diet or training. Then, the UGL starts sending out pure oil as the writing on the wall begins to come into focus. And finally, right before it becomes obvious to all, the UGL simply picks up funds without sending anything at all.

The next part is really the kicker. The UGL changes names and styles, and rides to the rescue claiming to be a source that only got into the business because of all the "scammers" out there. There are no duplicate start-up costs aside from some new labels. The very same customers that fell into the trap or witnessed it view this "new" source as the white knight they've been waiting for, and by golly, those initial labmax and early adopter bloodwork results look pretty good!

The supplement industry has this one down pretty good, although they rely almost exclusively on the placebo effect to do the work. People, after having spent time and money on this or that extract or other homeopathic/wholistic nonsense would rather convince themselves they're feeling something than admit they've been had for a complete fool. It not uncommon for investigative reporters to analyize the industry from time to time and find absolutely none of the advertised ingredient present.

One researcher studying placebo effects described the effect as an “endogenous pharmacy...”

 

[curgen]

Studies have even shown the people taking placebos that know they are taking a placebo, report improvement in their conditions over the control group that takes nothing at all. And those taking marked placebos experience the same degree of subjective improvement in their condition as those receiving marked medications already known to be clinically effective beyond the rate of placebos.

That means that just by taking something, people will often feel an improvement even if they know that it's not the real drug. Only when they take nothing at all do they report no or very limited improvements in their conditions. Fascinating stuff, all of which works in favor of the under/no-dosing UGLs.

 

[Dr JIM]

We need a few good men!

Oh crap that's over rated bc we just need a few good suckers to spread the word to others they known, and since birds of feather flock together, well you get the idea!

Some folk need to be reminded what's being "sold" by these UGLs are scheduled substances with some pretty nasty penalties if caught selling the genuine article.

That very fact is enough to compel some UGLs to sell absolute BUNK and others to substitute designer AAS as their real McCoy!

WELL SAID CURGEN

Jim

 

[MEEKmlz]

This entire thing is depressing!!!!

 

[thegodfather7]

its listed unless you are asking what the label has is listed as.

In that case all were 10mg per pill.

I know that many say good var is hard to find but from my testing its all pretty much the same and its all var. Lab max it to make sure then chances are its just 50% purity.

Thank you for testing. I have a ton of Legend Var and some WP prop.

Those test are all Greek to me, hopefully you or someone else can tell me what was the content of the Var and Prop.

Thank you

 

[double-leg]

When we talk about legend its IP legend from china? The one with a tiger on the label? If we are then it will fail his shit is crap in IMHO

 

[double-leg]

It wont have near the amount stated on the label if not just pure oil.

 

[WMSuperSport]

When's the next round?

 

[Capt Forest]

The second round of testing is beinging this upcoming week. It's a 9 sample batch.

I will begin taking more samples as the second batch moves closer to completion.

 

[MotoHead]

Nice werk, Cap

 

[Gymjunkie70]

Thanks for all your work Cap

 

[rpbb]

Thanks Cap

 

[WMSuperSport]

The suspense is overwhelming! Not trying to rush Capt, just excited about the next results.