If the inventor says to take this much why do we take so much more?

cvictorg

New Member
Dr. John B. Ziegler - inventor of Dianabol

Chemical History: Anabolic steroids invade football in the 50s-70s | steroidtimes.com


Pharmacologists continued work in America for developing synthetic forms of the male hormone with no harmful side effects. A goal was to create strictly anabolic steroids, envisioned to enhance body and performance without testosterones androgenic or male-producing element, side effects such as acne, baldness, testicular shrinkage, and prostate ailments. Ciba technicians made a breakthrough, at least for mass marketing of anabolic steroids, by developing methandrostenolone, marketed under trade name Dianabol.

Released in 1958 for prescription treatment of medical conditions, D-bol pills exploded in off-label use as the classic muscle drug, even though production had failed to separate the androgenic effects from the desired anabolic mechanism. Dianabol was an anabolic-androgenic steroid, retaining adverse effects associated with testosterone injections, but bodybuilders and athletes flocked, nonetheless. Dianabols big sell was its pill form, the first anabolic steroid for oral consumption, timing perfectly with consumer belief and appetite for pills to fix anything.

During this period, Ziegler renewed ties with both Ciba and the musclemen at York Barbell. Clearly the pharmaceutical age of sport was on the horizon, wrote John D. Fair, weightlifting historian, in his book Muscletown USA: Bob Hoffman and the Manly Culture of York Barbell. Later, many accounts would cite Ziegler as the creator of Dianabol. What was Zieglers role in it? I would answer his role was simply as an experimenter with [Dianabol], with the athletes, said Fair, who worked with papers of both Ziegler and Hoffman. Apparently, Ziegler obtained Dianabol from a Ciba plant in New Jersey and gave the new pill to weightlifters at York, who displayed strength gains.

Drug companies began manufacturing new anabolic-androgenic steroids, and there was no turning back for the sports world. Available and usable, roids were the rage among elite strength athletes, who gobbled and shot-up whatever they could get, from D-Bol and Deca-Durabolin to Anavar and Winstrol V. And the drugs worked, making users bigger and stronger. Young athletes ignored warnings of danger, for they were winning.

Ziegler realized athletes were prone to abuse steroids, including lifters under his supervision in York. Ziegler would prescribe 5 milligrams of Dianabol one to three times daily, but athletes took as much as 10 to 20 times that amount, enraging him. The doctor started to backtrack on steroids, feeling less and less secure about the drug-sport phenomenon he helped spawn. The development of a certifiably safe anabolic steroid had not panned out. All creations that followed Dianabol turned out to be anabolic-androgenic, including nandrolone decanoate, trade name Deca-Durabolin. Ziegler had long heard of hazards associated with male-producing hormones, but his awareness heightened in the early 1960s, particularly about potential dangers to the liver and heart. He began publicly denouncing steroids through Yorks muscle publications, but Hoffmans weightlifters only increased their use in private.

The doctor who brought steroids to America. - By Justin Peters - Slate Magazine

Weightlifters and other athletes clamored for "Doc Ziegler's mysterious pink pills." Ziegler himself only prescribed Dianabol in small doses, but iron gamers eager for a competitive edge regularly exceeded his recommendations. Ziegler was horrified by this excess, especially when he examined Dianabol users and found enlarged prostates and atrophied testes. The lifters paid little heed, as John Fair recounts in his recent book Muscletown USA. "What is it with these simple-minded shits?" complained an exasperated Ziegler. "I'm the doctor!"

History of steroids,john ziegler and dianabol - Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com / Anabolic Review Forums

Dianabol is also one of the few steroids that will exhibit great results when taken alone. Its anabolic/androgenic ratio is almost ideal, but perhaps a bit too powerful. Coincidentally, it was the East Germans who developed a less androgenic version of Dianabol. Higher dosages were possible without the suppression of endogenous testosterone production. This "milder" Dianabol was called Turinabol and it had the added advantage of being completely undetectable in a urine test three days following administration. Unfortunately, the lower androgenic ratio of Turinabol meant it didn't exhibit as dramatic an increase in strength. Therefore, it was considered a "failure" by its manufacturers, Jenapharm, and production was discontinued. Too bad. Nevertheless, if it weren't for Dianabol's overly potent androgenic properties, as well as its propensity toward toxicity, there would be no reason to take anything else. Dianabol always works. And it works on everybody.

This concern caused many of the "heads of state" of bodybuilding to call for a meeting. The legend has it that famed gym owner and bodybuilding guru Vince Gironda had organized a little pow-wow between he and the top guns of the day; men like Larry Scott, Don Howorth, and Dave Draper. Vince was opposed to external hormonal manipulation but he realized that the pros had to use them in order to stay competitive. Since he was viewed as a mentor to the muscle stars at the time, they were willing to comply with his wishes. They came to an agreement. In an effort to keep the competition among everyone equitable and in the name of maintaining a healthy body, no one would exceed the allowed dosage of two tablets a day! (Now you know Larry Scott's "secret stack" to win the Olympia!)

BUT - if you try to post info about takijng reasonable amounts of oral steroids you're either flammed or banned - so sad

Ask yourself this - in the "golden era" of bodybuilding there was no pCT available - so how come the top stars never had Gynecomastia???
 
Never Enough / Steroids in Sports: Experiment turns epidemic

Ziegler had strict instructions: no more than 15 milligrams of Dianabol per day, six weeks of use followed by five weeks of abstinence, and regular medical checkups that included a liver test every four months.

The doctor's orders were for 5 milligrams a day for lightweights, 10 milligrams a day for middleweights and 15 milligrams a day for heavyweights, with periodic medical checkups.
 
Why are you calling Ziegler the inventor of Dianabol?

He was not, and the article you posted says plainly was not.

The myth that he is the inventor is a popular one, due to being started by some steroid writer and apparently gripping the imagination, but he's not.
 
Dianabol (Methandrostenolone or Metandienone) (l7beta-hydroxy-17alpha-methylandrosta-1,4-dien-3-one) was first synthesized in 1955 by Vischer et al. by microbiological dehydrogenation of methyltestosterone. In 1956 Meystre et al. published a dehydrogenation synthesis of methyltestosterone with selenium dioxide.

Vischer E, Meystre C, Wettstein A. Herstellung weiterer 1-Dehydrosteroide auf mikrobiologischem Wege. Helv Chim Acta 1955;38:1502-6.

Meystre C, Frey H, Voser W, Wettstein A. Gewinnung von 1,4-Bisdehydro-3-oxo-steroiden. HeIv Chim Acta 1956;39:734-42.
 
Why are you calling Ziegler the inventor of Dianabol?

He was not, and the article you posted says plainly was not.

The myth that he is the inventor is a popular one, due to being started by some steroid writer and apparently gripping the imagination, but he's not.

It makes a nice trivia question. I've seen the U.S. patent for methandrostenolone (US 2900398) listing inventors of methandrostenolone as Albert Wettstein, Alfred Hunger, Charles Meystre, and Ludwig Ehmann of Ciba Pharmaceuticals referencing method for chemical synthesis in 1956.

But I also saw this in Merck Index about "microbial" synthesis of methandrostenolone in 1955 by Vischer:

Anabolic steroid. Prepn by microbial dehydrogenation of 17a-methyltestosterone: Vischer et al., Helv. Chim. Acta 38, 1502 (1955)

So who gets credit?
 

Attachments

  • methandrostenolone-US2900398.pdf
    195.9 KB · Views: 4
Dianabol (Methandrostenolone or Metandienone) (l7beta-hydroxy-17alpha-methylandrosta-1,4-dien-3-one) was first synthesized in 1955 by Vischer et al. by microbiological dehydrogenation of methyltestosterone. In 1956 Meystre et al. published a dehydrogenation synthesis of methyltestosterone with selenium dioxide.

Vischer E, Meystre C, Wettstein A. Herstellung weiterer 1-Dehydrosteroide auf mikrobiologischem Wege. Helv Chim Acta 1955;38:1502-6.

Meystre C, Frey H, Voser W, Wettstein A. Gewinnung von 1,4-Bisdehydro-3-oxo-steroiden. HeIv Chim Acta 1956;39:734-42.

Thanks! It appears they were all part of the Ciba Pharma team but Vischer doesn't get his name in the patent.
 
Because it works better to take about 50 mg/day, and unless there are estrogen concerns, few wind up deciding from outcomes that this was too much.
 
Unfortunately UG orals are not dosed anything like human grade medicine.

Heck, you'll even find people complaining about human grade generic medicine not being potent.
 
I've had good results in the past with 30-50mg per day of Naposim for first 3-4 weeks of cycle. The Napos did
fine at 30mg per day in one cycle.

I believe the ones I took were the 5mg tabs and spread out 6 tabs per day for 4 weeks and results were good but
this was just a frontload to the oil based Deca/Test I was taking. So, 30mg per day was sufficient in my stacks.
 
I have seen people blow up with sheer size over an 8 week period with as little as 20mgs of d-bol and they kept all their gains. On the contrary, I know other people that did 35-50mgs for 4-6 weeks and they kept a mere nothing.

D-bol is great at moderate dosages for a prolonged period of time when used on it's own or at high dosages when taken with A-dex but then, comes the toxicity matter which may be over-exaggerated but it's still there, especially in high dosages.

Most people lose most of their gains after d-bol only cycles because they use a very large dosage usually without adding proviron or an Al, which translates into watery gains that you piss afterwards.

Rummor has it that Arnold used to inject 100mgs Primo ed and take around 50mgs d-bol ed for cycles no longer than 6-8 weeks. The other guys he used to hang around with back then thought that what he was doing was extremely dangerous and the dosages he was using were unheard of....
 
Top