Injecting hgh post workout?

[ChestRockwell]

Again, there is NO SINGULAR ANSWER to this question because the administration (timing/dose/injection method) of GH depends entirely on a person's goals.

 

[fodsod]

If your dosing pm are you fasting a certain amount of time beforehand.

Not really. I usually eat my last meal about 9:30 and take my dose around 11:00-11:30 prior to bed. At 5iu ED (night) I still see and experience everything I did back when in my early 30's using different dosing protocols so I'm getting my money's worth IMO.

I'm in my 40's so I'm sure my levels aren't what they used to be so my PM dose is most likely helping more than hurting.

 

[Evom1]

Thank you for taking the time to elaborate, and I really enjoyed reading the mindset - you get it.

Now, couple of pro-tips:
- Understand that GH is not anabolic, however it does have a great synergy with testosterone (and AAS in general)
- Because of this, getting it into the blood is much more important than trying to stress over acute timing (e.g. you won't see significant differences in hypertrophy by injecting at certain times of the day).

Now, with that said, here is my advice - inject your GH 45-60 minutes pre-workout. This allows serum GH to be maximized during, and shortly after your training session. This has numerous secondary benefits.

If you want to obtain lean mass by 35 pounds (depending on your starting point), you are going to very likely have to leverage somewhat higher GH doses alongside an aggressive AAS stack. You also may want to consider exogenous insulin, depending on development level, as this is arguably the single greatest combination for hypertrophy potential.

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. My concern with taking it 45mins pre, is that I eat my pre workout meal basically at that exact time, and I drink carbs intra. Do you feel there would be an issue taking it so close to all those carbs ?

It does seem that overall, for lean mass gain, WHEN isn't critical, just how much and being consistent with it for the long term. Maybe I will work it higher than 5iu. For now, I was more focused on making sure I could do a full year at a pretty good dose. Later in the year I may be able to go up if needed.

I've heard alot shout the synergy with aas and that makes alot of sense to me. I'm hesitant on insulin, primarily because I really want to keep as tight of a waist as possible.

 

[ChestRockwell]

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. My concern with taking it 45mins pre, is that I eat my pre workout meal basically at that exact time, and I drink carbs intra. Do you feel there would be an issue taking it so close to all those carbs ?

No, in fact if anabolism is your goal, this is pretty much exactly what I would recommend for those not using exogenous insulin. I would simply wait 15-20 minutes post-injection before consuming your meal just to ensure the GH has time to bind with the GHRs (conservative time estimates here).

It does seem that overall, for lean mass gain, WHEN isn't critical, just how much and being consistent with it for the long term. Maybe I will work it higher than 5iu. For now, I was more focused on making sure I could do a full year at a pretty good dose. Later in the year I may be able to go up if needed.

I hesitate to make blanket statements, however I do tend to find that when folks are using minimal AAS and no insulin that 5IUs of GH would be largely wasteful. I single 2-4IU injection (timed as described above) should be plenty. Only exceed 2IUs if stalls occur (and this really shouldn't happen).

I've heard alot shout the synergy with aas and that makes alot of sense to me. I'm hesitant on insulin, primarily because I really want to keep as tight of a waist as possible.

This is largely based upon fear mongering. In fact, my waist now is 1" smaller than it was when I was natural. Gut distention occurs due to abusing both GH and insulin for years...this will not happen to most individuals if they aren't consistently using over 10IUs of GH alongside 100s of IUs of insulin daily...and, at that point, gut distention is probably the least of your concerns

 

[Sampei]

What about the risk of becoming diabetic using insulin?

If using 2g or more of AAS weekly but no insuling Do you think more then 5IU/ED are worth it?

No, in fact if anabolism is your goal, this is pretty much exactly what I would recommend for those not using exogenous insulin. I would simply wait 15-20 minutes post-injection before consuming your meal just to ensure the GH has time to bind with the GHRs (conservative time estimates here).



I hesitate to make blanket statements, however I do tend to find that when folks are using minimal AAS and no insulin that 5IUs of GH would be largely wasteful. I single 2-4IU injection (timed as described above) should be plenty. Only exceed 2IUs if stalls occur (and this really shouldn't happen).



This is largely based upon fear mongering. In fact, my waist now is 1" smaller than it was when I was natural. Gut distention occurs due to abusing both GH and insulin for years...this will not happen to most individuals if they aren't consistently using over 10IUs of GH alongside 100s of IUs of insulin daily...and, at that point, gut distention is probably the least of your concerns

 

[ProfessorX]

I've ran it every way mentioned and I feel like for me anyways running one shot at night is the most beneficial.

I hope to have some numbers soon.

mands

Sent you a PM

 

[ChestRockwell]

What about the risk of becoming diabetic using insulin?

This is largely going to be genetic as some can abuse the living hell out of insulin and have zero problems and others have to be much more careful.

However, for most who don't have aspirations of becoming IFBB pros, the amount of insulin we are talking here is baby doses and run for short bursts. Both of these factors tend to suggest the risk is low.

If using 2g or more of AAS weekly but no insuling Do you think more then 5IU/ED are worth it?

Personally, no. And I must clarify that all my GH related advice is based upon FDA grade rHGH as I do not advocate nor recommend the use of gray market GH brands. They are just too much of a crapshoot...

 

[Sampei]

This is largely going to be genetic as some can abuse the living hell out of insulin and have zero problems and others have to be much more careful.

However, for most who don't have aspirations of becoming IFBB pros, the amount of insulin we are talking here is baby doses and run for short bursts. Both of these factors tend to suggest the risk is low.



Personally, no. And I must clarify that all my GH related advice is based upon FDA grade rHGH as I do not advocate nor recommend the use of gray market GH brands. They are just too much of a crapshoot...

But do you think that 5IU/ED can be run without insulin or I should decrease the hgh dosage or start with insulin?

How would you use insulin in someone that have no aspiration to compete but do have quite high personal goal.
I mean those baby cycle of insulin you were talking in your post

 

[ChestRockwell]

But do you think that 5IU/ED can be run without insulin or I should decrease the hgh dosage or start with insulin?

How would you use insulin in someone that have no aspiration to compete but do have quite high personal goal.
I mean those baby cycle of insulin you were talking in your post

Well, I'm not certain of your level of development however (blanket statement) if you aren't as developed as top Golden Era competitors then there is a very good chance you have ample room for development on AAS, by itself.

Adding GH isn't a bad thing to a well designed AAS stack, however don't use more than you need and practice a minimum effective dose methodology. Rhetorically speaking, are you going to have greater anabolism potential on 5IUs of GH versus 2IUs? And would this potential be worth the financial and potential health consequences?

Insulin is something you always want to treat with respect, when using for the first time. And not something that can be discussed quickly since there are a lot of considerations (from dose to insulin type to timing to glucose requirements, etc).

 

[Sampei]

I don't have that kind of body and I don't really want to go much past those type of body. I love those golden era physique.

I don't want to be a mass freak.
So I'm not really looking forward to insulin especially because if I were to become diabetic I would lose my job.

I don't get much side effect from hgh at the moment.
My hgh seems legit because I have a very high IgF but the usually side effect with time have really diminished, I have almost no cts at all and the only bad thing is a bit of water retention.

My BG on the other hand during GH cycle is always high 120-125 fasting.

Well, I'm not certain of your level of development however (blanket statement) if you aren't as developed as top Golden Era competitors then there is a very good chance you have ample room for development on AAS, by itself.

Adding GH isn't a bad thing to a well designed AAS stack, however don't use more than you need and practice a minimum effective dose methodology. Rhetorically speaking, are you going to have greater anabolism potential on 5IUs of GH versus 2IUs? And would this potential be worth the financial and potential health consequences?

Insulin is something you always want to treat with respect, when using for the first time. And not something that can be discussed quickly since there are a lot of considerations (from dose to insulin type to timing to glucose requirements, etc).

 

[ChestRockwell]

I don't have that kind of body and I don't really want to go much past those type of body. I love those golden era physique.

I don't want to be a mass freak.
So I'm not really looking forward to insulin especially because if I were to become diabetic I would lose my job.

I don't get much side effect from hgh at the moment.
My hgh seems legit because I have a very high IgF but the usually side effect with time have really diminished, I have almost no cts at all and the only bad thing is a bit of water retention.

My BG on the other hand during GH cycle is always high 120-125 fasting.

We all must get away from this "if I take insulin I'm going to become a mass freak with diabetes" mindset. Nothing could be further from the truth...

GH plus insulin is an anabolic synergy biscuit that can really push folks past sticking points, however I tend to urge folks to leverage AAS until they begin to maximize their genetic potential on AAS, for a myriad of reasons (and what I mentioned above are not any of the reasons)...

 

[Sampei]

I'll come
Back in 5-6 years to see if insulin will be an option. For now I have much to improve

Thanks for taking the time to answer me

We all must get away from this "if I take insulin I'm going to become a mass freak with diabetes" mindset. Nothing could be further from the truth...

GH plus insulin is an anabolic synergy biscuit that can really push folks past sticking points, however I tend to urge folks to leverage AAS until they begin to maximize their genetic potential on AAS, for a myriad of reasons (and what I mentioned above are not any of the reasons)...

 

[Sampei]

@ChestRockwell

What do you think about using glyburide to keep your body to become insuling resistance?
Glyburide: Uses, Dosage, Side Effects - Drugs.com

I had a coach that lives in my town suggesting me to take 0.5mg of euglucon (glyburide) to make my pancreas release more insulin.

I never seen this suggestion online used. I know many have said that metformin is stupid to use during hgh cycle even if on paper it looks like a miracle synergy. Tough I never seen anyone talking about glyburide.

They should work differently, the latter works on the pancreas for what I understood.

 

[ProfessorX]

@ChestRockwell

What do you think about using glyburide to keep your body to become insuling resistance?
Glyburide: Uses, Dosage, Side Effects - Drugs.com

I had a coach that lives in my town suggesting me to take 0.5mg of euglucon (glyburide) to make my pancreas release more insulin.

I never seen this suggestion online used. I know many have said that metformin is stupid to use during hgh cycle even if on paper it looks like a miracle synergy. Tough I never seen anyone talking about glyburide.

They should work differently, the latter works on the pancreas for what I understood.

This is not my current Doc/HRT Clinic but...

I was a patient of Dr. John J Pierce years ago

He was one of the Doctors that explained (to me) dose timing and the effects related to "anti-aging" Vs Growth Hormone Deficiency

(A) Growth Hormone Deficiency

- Subcutaneous injections are usually administered in the evening to mimic physiologic nocturnal GH secretion.

How Is GH Deficiency Diagnosed?

Growth Hormone Treatment - Dosing and Monitoring

- Off-label use (anti-aging/bodybuilding)

Off-label Prescribing in Medicine – GH Notable Exception!

Another good watch: (Dave Palumbo/ John Romano)

The entire video is good

T3/T4 discussion starts at 21:30 along with: (Same opinion as Dr Rand McClain)

Fasting/ no carbs not necessary with exogenous GH

A.M. Dosing for a more "anabolic" effect as to not disrupt natural pulse

Insulin is also discussed



Metformin Info:

Metformin: is it an anti-aging pill?

 

[ChestRockwell]

@ChestRockwell

What do you think about using glyburide to keep your body to become insuling resistance?
Glyburide: Uses, Dosage, Side Effects - Drugs.com

I had a coach that lives in my town suggesting me to take 0.5mg of euglucon (glyburide) to make my pancreas release more insulin.

I never seen this suggestion online used. I know many have said that metformin is stupid to use during hgh cycle even if on paper it looks like a miracle synergy. Tough I never seen anyone talking about glyburide.

They should work differently, the latter works on the pancreas for what I understood.

I have never used, nor had any of my athletes use, "insulin sensitivity" compounds and control this largely via dietary means.

Since I don't have first or second-hand experience, I would not feel comfortable giving advice on the topic...

 

[The Rock]

I use 3 iu norditropin at night and have had good results .If I added insulin when would I take it?How much would I use? And do you think I'd see dramatic results?


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[ChestRockwell]

I use 3 iu norditropin at night and have had good results .If I added insulin when would I take it?How much would I use? And do you think I'd see dramatic results?

These are all very general questions and it would be nearly impossible to answer without very specific information about your goals, experience levels, hormone stack, etc...

 

[The Rock]

I'm 255 10 % bf or less I want to hit 240 super lean. Running 500 cyp a week 700 primo a week 50 mg proviron a week 3 iu a day


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[ChestRockwell]

I'm 255 10 % bf or less I want to hit 240 super lean. Running 500 cyp a week 700 primo a week 50 mg proviron a week 3 iu a day

Okay, so there are going to be just a ton of ways to approach this and each have their pros and potential cons. And, although insulin can be used as part of a structured fat loss plan, this is what I consider to be very individual and advanced, and beyond the scope of this thread. In fact, I would hesitate to put a template down simply for fear some may try and emulate it with poor results.

Running that amount of AAS might suit you better for what is traditionally called a "recomp" as opposed to a short dietary phase. If you were wanting to simply diet, I'd probably urge you to lower AAS amounts simply because there is often a direct correlation between AAS amounts and hunger.

I'd also urge you to reconsider shooting for an objective number on the scale. Reason I say this is that during recomps, you may find that the scale doesn't move as much (have had numerous clients stay relatively the same weight over 8-16 recomps while simultaneously changing the look of their physique dramatically).

Other things worth mentioning:
- One of GH's core strengths is anti-atrophy of skeletal muscle (by way of suppressing intracellular leucine oxidation) - so if you decide to drop AAS volume, extra peace of mind
- GH's signalling pathways for anabolism and catabolism (lipolysis) are influenced largely by external stimulus, meaning that depending on one's goals, dosing and timing of injections are vastly different depending on which they are after

 

[Just Fish]

Lol, you ain't kiddn

That's why I posted some of this info up for Mands to look at

I do appreciate the Medical
Studies being posted....but appreciate even more the "real world" experience, blood work, etc that he is doing

Looks like Sampei is getting very good results with his p.m. dosing

I've experimented with different protocols and blood work to follow up

I've always come back to a simple a.m. dose

But that's just me

Recently dropped GH completely and started using IGF1 LR3

Lots of different protocols with that one also

I am interested in your dosing and injection protocol for IGF1 LR3