Insulin cycle and protocol

[Dr JIM]

After some experiments I can get by with about 6gms/iu, not suggesting anything here just telling my personal experience

Unless you're a diabetic you could also "get by" with ZERO.

But some just have to believe physiologic micromanagement of this nature "makes a difference", in spite of evidence to the contrary.

How ironic a similar homeopathic approach is not pursued with respect to the use of TT as a PED.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Unless you're a diabetic you could also "get by" with ZERO.

But some just have to believe physiologic micromanagement of this nature "makes a difference", in spite of evidence to the contrary.

How ironic a similar homeopathic approach is not pursued with respect to the use of TT as a PED.

Are you saying a proper insulin regimen combined with AAS combined with growth hormone is useless for building muscle?
As in AAS+GH is all you need?

 

[Mr_Nobody]

Diabetic here.. i use insulin for 4 years now each meal. 10g per iu is good start. Buy a meter and test, before, 2 h after. Insulin brings your blood glucose down.

If u jab 6 iu there is NO other way to remove the effects of it then eating /drinking 60 g carbs.. thats with NO exerisce

What is the best blood glucose meter you have tried or want to try?

I heard you can read blood glucose level with one of those smart wristbands, are they accurate?

 

[Docd187123]

Originally posted by Dr. Scally

Trommelen J, Groen B, Hamer H, de Groot LCPGM, van Loon LJ. MECHANISMS IN ENDOCRINOLOGY: Exogenous insulin does not increase muscle protein synthesis rate when administrated systemically: a systematic review. European Journal of Endocrinology. http://eje-online.org/content/early/2015/02/02/EJE-14-0902.abstract

Background: Though it is well appreciated that insulin plays an important role in regulating muscle protein metabolism, there is much discrepancy in the literature on the capacity of exogenous insulin administration to increase muscle protein synthesis rates in vivo in humans.

Objective: To assess whether exogenous insulin administration increases muscle protein synthesis rates in young and older adults.

Design: A systematic review of clinical trials was performed and the presence or absence of an increase in muscle protein synthesis rate was reported for each individual study arm.

In a stepwise manner, multiple models where constructed that excluded study arms based on the following conditions:
model 1) concurrent hyperaminoamino-acidemia,
model 2) insulin-induced hypoaminoacidemia,
model 3) supraphysiological insulin concentrations, and
model 4) older, more insulin resistant, subjects.

Conclusions: From the presented data in the current systematic review, we conclude that
1) exogenous insulin and amino acid administration effectively increase muscle protein synthesis, however this effect is attributed to the hyperaminoacidemia,
2) exogenous insulin administrated systemically induces hypoaminoacidemia which obviates any insulin-stimulatory effect on muscle protein synthesis,
3) exogenous insulin resulting in supraphysiological insulin levels exceeding 50,000 pmol/L may effectively augment muscle protein synthesis,
4) exogenous insulin may have a diminished effect on muscle protein synthesis in older adults due to age related anabolic resistance, and
5) exogenous insulin administrated systemically does not increase muscle protein synthesis in healthy, young adults.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Originally posted by Dr. Scally

Thank You for posting!
The intent was to prove exogenous self administered insulin in healthy young adults does not increase muscle protein synthesis. So what is the benefit of insulin? I feel like this is just a big play on words

 

[TRT]

So if I did 10ius of GH and insulin I wouldn't gain anymore muscle then if I had just GH?
I don't think it induces muscle protein synthesis but has to do something that helps.

 

[Docd187123]

Thank You for posting!
The intent was to prove exogenous self administered insulin in healthy young adults does not increase muscle protein synthesis. So what is the benefit of insulin? I feel like this is just a big play on words

Insulin on it's own IMO is really not going to do much unless extremely high doses are being used. Insulin, in combination with AAS and HGH, is a different scenario.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Insulin on it's own IMO is really not going to do much unless extremely high doses are being used. Insulin, in combination with AAS and HGH, is a different scenario.

Thats what im getting at. I dont see anyone outright refuting exogenous insulins role in building muscle. I just feel its a big play on words to draw attention away from the issue. Of course insulin on its own isnt the best idea. I get that. But the combination of AAS+GH+INSULIN is the application were all talking about. At least it should be.

 

[ChestRockwell]

As with most things, there is going to be an ebb and a flow. In this thread, you are seeing some that have a very strict anti-insulin vibe, and others on the opposite end. The truth often lies somewhere in the middle.

Is it a potent muscle building tool? Under certain scenarios, absolutely. Should it be played around by those who are less than advanced bodybuilders? Unless diabetic, an argument could be made that it should not.

Many individuals tend to rush into things, starting exotic compounds and designing outlandish stacks well beyond their level of development. This is a marathon and not a sprint, just think big picture...

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

As with most things, there is going to be an ebb and a flow. In this thread, you are seeing some that have a very strict anti-insulin vibe, and others on the opposite end. The truth often lies somewhere in the middle.

Is it a potent muscle building tool? Under certain scenarios, absolutely. Should it be played around by those who are less than advanced bodybuilders? Unless diabetic, an argument could be made that it should not.

Many individuals tend to rush into things, starting exotic compounds and designing outlandish stacks well beyond their level of development. This is a marathon and not a sprint, just think big picture...

That whole "advanced bodybuilders" argument seems like it would make sense. But in reality it doesnt. Yeah, i assume when that is said it means its not for the casual AAS user. But what im finding is it makes a whole lot more sense to lower your AAS doses and run gh and insulin with it. Which i believe is better than running obscene AAS doses alone. Which is pretty limited ive found IME.

I wouldnt really expect a medical doctor to endorse insulin use. But most dont endorse PED use either. So theres that

 

[Demondosage]

Insulin dependant diabetic here as well. I understand guys are going to do it regardless and I can tell ppl the safest way to use it, but let me just say that being tied to a meter and glucose meds on the daily is a shitty way to live.

It's not worth messing with....find other ways to grow

 

[Dr JIM]

That whole "advanced bodybuilders" argument seems like it would make sense. But in reality it doesnt. Yeah, i assume when that is said it means its not for the casual AAS user. But what im finding is it makes a whole lot more sense to lower your AAS doses and run gh and insulin with it. Which i believe is better than running obscene AAS doses alone. Which is pretty limited ive found IME.

I wouldnt really expect a medical doctor to endorse insulin use. But most dont endorse PED use either. So theres that

And you are overlooking one huge difference bt the casual user and pro BB ----- GENETICS

Seriously what's the point in the casual BB mixing a variety of PEDS including insulin if they simply don't have the genetics to compete at the pro level?

The risk benefit ratio is just to high for noncompetitive BB IMO, and that's the majority on this forum.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

And you are overlooking one huge difference bt the casual user and pro BB ----- GENETICS

Seriously what's the point in the casual BB mixing a variety of PEDS including insulin if they simply don't have the genetics to compete at the pro level?

The risk benefit ratio is just to high for noncompetitive BB IMO, and that's the majority on this forum.

I dont believe alot of those guys on the pro lvl would ALL have the required genetics to compete against the top 10 guys. If it werent for their synthetic genetics and obscene amounts at that. I think alot of em have what it takes to get that far but most you will never see grace the top 10. So perhaps they shouldnt use any PEDs. Since they dont have what it takes to be numero uno. Or perhaps we should all just forego AAS altogether. In the grand scheme of things its all too much risk. Unnecessary. And upon cessation of use we all return to normal. Yes, even the Great Arnie

 

[ChestRockwell]

Or perhaps we should all just forego AAS altogether. In the grand scheme of things its all too much risk.

I mean, we need to be honest with ourselves here. As soon as we inject ourselves with supraphysiological doses of hormones, we enter a higher risk zone. The majority of this is done for vanity-related purposes by those that are recreational users and those in that category perhaps should consider a minimum effective dose philosophy to try and limit risks.

Conversely, replacement doses as we age tends to have more of a positive effect on quality of life (foregoing discussions on longevity as that is far from conclusive).

 

[jJjburton]

Ya I've touched on this subject a few times with @Leangains4life over the last year and realize I've failed to mention that 10g of carbs per iu is without training. A mixture of complex carbs and simple carbs should be utilized throughout a regimen for beginners or advanced users.

At a beginners level you should keep the injections to once per day. You don't want insulin over lapping cause it's the easiest mistake to make. It's actually after the last peak you think your okay when you still have 6ius in the body from a 10 iu shot and you take 10 more...well your fucked. This is a mistake I made while I was past the point of "no return" as I call it.

The point of no return is:
The most my body can handle is 20ius. If I take 2 shots spread out of 14-16ius and even if half that overlaps each other during injections, I'm in trouble. Im not only unprepared but the worst part is that I'm unaware of it. Now, I may not be able to eat enough food to save myself.

These are the kinds of things that should be known PRIOR to putting together a regimen and starting the use of insulin.

-Leader of the Mesocinion group #14.
Lol

what if you take a spoon full of sugar? will that help the overdose of insulin at all?

 

[ChestRockwell]

what if you take a spoon full of sugar?

It will help the medicine go down...

 

[jJjburton]

Thank You for posting!
The intent was to prove exogenous self administered insulin in healthy young adults does not increase muscle protein synthesis. So what is the benefit of insulin? I feel like this is just a big play on words

DocD or Dr jim one of them or both LOVE to write on here and reword things, using a play on words. Saying the same exact thing just reworded. Its almost pointless sometimes.

 

[jJjburton]

e).[/QUOTE]
But then again there is no purpose in taking aas unless your in sport. Since

I dont believe alot of those guys on the pro lvl would ALL have the required genetics to compete against the top 10 guys. If it werent for their synthetic genetics and obscene amounts at that. I think alot of em have what it takes to get that far but most you will never see grace the top 10. So perhaps they shouldnt use any PEDs. Since they dont have what it takes to be numero uno. Or perhaps we should all just forego AAS altogether. In the grand scheme of things its all too much risk. Unnecessary. And upon cessation of use we all return to normal. Yes, even the Great Arnie

yea so whats the point in taking aas unless your a top 10 body bulider or in a professional sport???? This argument has no end and can go in circles.

 

[jJjburton]

It will help the medicine go down...

yea, so overdosing and going hypo and dieing from insulin is from a lack of knowledge and dumbness on the users part. referring to the middle of the thread.

 

[Docd187123]

DocD or Dr jim one of them or both LOVE to write on here and reword things, using a play on words. Saying the same exact thing just reworded. Its almost pointless sometimes.

That's pretty funny considering you tag both of us to answer even the most basic of questions.

The latest example:

Androderm patch question to increase T levels...?

So in the future I will minimize my LOVE of writing on here and ignore your desperate pleas for help when you tag me. No skin off my back.