Karius - ALP / BAL Lists -

[darkseid]

You wouldnt be talking like this if you seen me face to face. Ill bet money on that. Id hit you so hard, id knock johnnyballz and cbs dick taste right the fuck out of your mouth..turd!

Love it when fuckbags say how big they are hiding behind a comp screen. "turd" I don't give a flying fuck how respected you are, stop being a cunt

 

[alphastrength50]

hey i have dick taste in my mouth wtf italian....

 

[tipdog]

Now whenever I think of karius I also think of IM. I was considering order from him but now I have such a bad impression of karius because of IM bullshit comments. I'm no longer interested.

 

[brutus79]

So we've seen IM and graniteman defending karius like kids and regular has spoke his piece like an adult, but where is karius? He made one post here and one on AB and its all quiet on the western front since.

We are easy to ignore- two yankees fans in the middle of that shithole they call fenway (ab)... I wouldn't take cash or product from him.

 

[Mr.Bravo]

Hey Italian muscle I don't appreciate you shooting your fuckin mouth off about saying Brut is a child's molester now ether show us the evidence or say you were just being stupid.

 

[whodatnation]

I would fuck boy and your time here trolling this board is getting old. It's hot here but in one week I have thirteen gator tags opening up and you'd be great fucking bait.Something about these swamps down here that are kinda eery. Almost like there are ghost on every spoil bank.
East Zone - Opens last Wednesday in August (season lasts 30 calendar days)

Your whole spill about only being known here only shows your stupidity. I'd rather be great somewhere then be nothing everywhere. Quit the act bro. You don't have any of the crazy it takes to be a killer.

You wouldnt be talking like this if you seen me face to face. Ill bet money on that. Id hit you so hard, id knock johnnyballz and cbs dick taste right the fuck out of your mouth..turd!

 

[Big_paul]

Child molester crosses a line that should not be crossed. Imo this is over. Fucked up. Everyone understands this

 

[Big_paul]

That's one level lower than calling a man a cop. This is serious shit. This kind of language has no place here. And when you say it no one hears you.

 

[brutus79]

You know bp- I must be hitting nerves with these people- they say the damndest things when they get called out.

Everything ok with you my friend?

 

[regular]

The nolva tested positive for dbol. It did not test positive for nolva. I gues that means he just thought he was doing pct when in fact he was doing a light dbol cycle.

You know regular- I have quite a bit of respect for you... the facts are that I ran the "anadrol" personally for a couple weeks with doses increasing up to 200mg a day with absolutely no effect. I had anadrol from another ugl I used with success in the past and three days at 100 a day had me prcticallt bedridden after 100mg at once pre workout on the third day- I have strong reaction to anadrol... if it is real. I sent the var in for labmax and it failed.... as I knew authenticity of labmax results would be called in to question I have been running at 80mg a day- typically a back pump inducing dose of crippling proportions- and yesterday was day 10. I did frigging squats and deads yesterday with no taurine and no issues. The nolva was used by jb and resulted in gyno flare up and great pumps for pct- due to the aforementioned dbol within. Cialis was taken at quadruple dose by a previous cialis responder with no effect- and one of the loudmouth cocksuckers who keeps haunting my claims told me he had issues with the cialis as well- until he made public claims it was great.

The bulk of your claims are difficult to quantify. I've seen guys claim drol was bunk, I later found out that the person making that claim put on 8lbs in three weeks and he was using nothing but drol. Clients can claim products are bunk to get free gear or have unreasonable expectations. Scamming can occur on either side of a transaction.

You may very well be correct that there was an issue with four of the products you received, but I haven't received any reports of any issues from anyone else. You're complaining that you received extra var, which is something I've never seen someone be ungrateful for until now.

Labmax is a kit purchased on the Internet for the purpose of testing hormones. How does someone send a product "in for a labmax?" Labmax tests are thin evidence because they rely on color indicators and unskilled testing personnel. A labmax might be a decent indicator of what a sample is, but that initial indication needs to be followed up with testing from a reputable and verifiable lab that uses real analytical instruments. ALP's var has tested as var, with a real analytical lab: http://www.ecstasydata.org/results.php?start=0&search_field=all&s=anavar

If someone was taking dbol, in lieu of clomid or nolva, it seems like a real stretch for that person to have grown a gland that needs to be removed. Nolva and clomid can cause the same bloating dbol does. Per his post, JB already had gyno. Your portryal of K's products causing your friend to need "gyno surgery" is misleading:

EDIT: Again so there's no confusion, I had minor gyno way before I used K and was already planning on doing this surgery.. It did get a little worse over the past few months but he didn't cause this.

I did not think this was an intentional scam by k- I thought greedy remailer or something. Based on the facts and what I call evidence-
1. Products mentioned were of extremely low quality with off counts and mislabeled compounds... dangerously mislabeled.
2. He says he tests everything, but his response to my claim was to send a DIFFERENT batch out for testing which is suspect a. Because it should have already been tested
B. Because what does a different batch have to do with my batch?
3. Repeated demands I send awat to ecstasy data when they only test compound and not purity, so if 1% compound exists it passes. Worthless and more smoke and mirrors.
4. Two weeks in and karius has not responded to pm's or multiple emails. Absolutely fucking pathetic imo.
5.the wave of people (well two) who supposedly have no financial interests in this fight amd the lengths they went to discredit me and my issues was disturbing to say the least... I know they are not taken too seriously elsewhere, but the silver lining is they permanently discrediteded themselves here.
6. I saw no posts deleted on AB- just a lot of chatter induced to bury the issue posts. TID was guilty of winning the post deletion war by a long shot.

1. The mislabeling is a claim for which you have presented no evidence. You could very well be right, mistakes get made by vendors, but I've personally never seen this issue come up with K before. I'm amazed you feel getting extra var is a problem, which according to your post, is cause of the "off counts."

2. Vendors typically rely on certificates of analysis that come from their chemical supplier. This is how the entire chemical / scientific industry works. When a quality issue arises, testing is conducted to be sure the next highest guy on the ladder is being honest. I have seen K mention that he has access to testing and that he was sending samples to be tested for his own QC about two months ago. Sources themselves are interested in having their products tested for QC purposes or because they are confident their products are proper, but they are limited by legal barriers.

B. The testing of one batch is relevant to another because it is likely coming from the same supplier further up the ladder. Depending on the volume of orders a suppler processes, the supplier may be pulling the product he is shipping from a drum or pail that could last for a long time. There is a chance the same product you received will be tested.

Which source in the community tests every product they sell every time?

3. Millard and I discussed crowd-funding a certified testing authority. Unfortunately, the feds demonstrated that they will not allow a DEA licensed lab to test PEDs for PED users. San Rafel Chemical Services was raided, had all of their information seized, and had to surrender their DEA license to test controlled substances because they were providing analytical testing to PED users. Obtaining concentration information from a lab, will cause that lab to get hammered by the feds, if the lab is discovered.

I was the person who proposed that the community use estacydata.org, over a year ago, well before joining the staff at AB. I made that proposal because it appears the community can not legally obtain concentration data. Estacydata.org is the most public, legitimate, and reliable testing authority I am aware of. Although they do not provide a milligram count, they will provide a ratio of active ingredients.

4. In #2 you state that K responded to your claim that a product was poor by having a sample tested. So, according to you, he has responded to your needs and is likely waiting for the results of the test he sent off. If he doesn't get back to you or you can't work out the problem you're having with him, contact a staff member at AB.

5. As far as I know, Gman and IM have nothing to do with K. They have been around for many years, with reputations in good standing, and having a good grasp of who people are in the community are though. They have both been participating at AB for a long time.

It seems that you have the same opinion of IM and Gman that they have of you regarding credibility. Nothing beneficial will come from you guys antagonizing each other. I don't like the child molester claim, it's like saying you want someone dead. The first time I saw that I thought it was real, wheels started turning.

IM and Gamn aside, I've seen you trash other guys who do positive things for the community that you are completely unaware of. My contact with you has always been good. However, you seem to have serious trouble separating the good guys from the bad guys, which is going to hurt your journey on the boards.

6. There is no posting conspiracy at work to bury anything at AB. Are you arguing that only you should be allowed to post in a thread?

Is my word evidence? Not to you. I am firmly convinced I got fucked and brushed under the rug... and it's truly pathetic this sort of thing is backed by vets and "vip's" that the proper way to go about addressing quality control is to be quiet and notify the source privately so their fuck up to who knows how many people goes largely unknown. With all the facts I have I feel well within my rights to make these claims and state that they are evidence.... and I would love to send some of these dogshit products to someone I trust since the mass spec I am having done will not be believed... and I will not waste my time dealing with italiancocksucker.

A claim is not evidence. That's not to say that your claims are incorrect though.

What got brushed under the rug? I am a moderator from the board where k is. I am extremely busy and I wrote a thoughtful reply addressing your complaint as soon as I noticed it. Contact K and wait for a reply. If you can't work it out with him, contact me or another member of the staff.

You are encouraged to post anything you want, make whatever claims you want, and leave whatever feedback you desire. We don't hide/tamper with/delete feedback at AB. Feel free to ignore the guidance you're being offered by people who are more experienced than you are.

When I go to a restaurant for dinner and order a steak, if my steak isn't cooked as I ordered it, I politely ask the waitress to bring me a steak that is prepared the way I intended it to be. In response, I typically I receive an apology, a new steak, and sometimes a free desert. I do not immediately jump to the conclusion that the waitress, chef, frequent patrons, and management staff are all involved in a conspiracy to rip me off because there was a problem with my order. I do not take it upon myself to stand up on a chair in the center of the restaurant and shout to everyone who will listen to me that my order was bad and the restaurant is a scam that everyone is in on. Utilizing professional courtesy has served me well.

Whether you think it is equally bad when the consumer is harmed vs. when the vendor is harmed is a matter of opinion. Many consumers may not agree with you.

How can a consumer of sound mind feel that being exposed to fraudulent data is not harmful to their ability to make decisions? Presenting information that leads someone to believe something is good, when it is in fact bad, is as much a failure as leading someone to believe something is bad, when it is in fact good. My point is that easily manipulated tests from unverifiable or unquantifiable sources are being used to determine the validity of products, therefore testing results are more of a claim than the hard evidence they are being billed as.

I ran up against this issue recently when ItialianMuscle posted a mass spec test indicating a product contained 25% of what it should. The source, who has a good reputation, later sent me a mass spec indicating the product he used to make the batch was 99% pure. He swears up and down that the finished product contains appropriate amount of active ingredient. IM said he felt there was a typo in the concentration area of the test results he presented. It's extremely easy to present a fraudulent test (even unknowingly) and use that as evidence to claim as product is good or bad. Either test result could have been manipulated or screwed up by the unverifiable lab/lab tech conducting the test. I can't say that the product was correct and I can't say the product was incorrect, it was a stalemate. The source offered to replace the product though. Both parties presented evidence that product in question was good and bad. I trust both parties. The unknown in that situation was the evidence each man used to support their claim.

I worked in the financial services industry and have seen every form of evidence used to process a transaction manipulated to further someone's agenda.

 

[Mr.Bravo]

So regular did you explain to italianhustler that that the whole pedofile thing is out of line too throw a jacket
Like that on some one with out proof? Cause I am all most positive he wouldn't have said that person.
Regards Mr.Bravo

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

The bulk of your claims are difficult to quantify. I've seen guys claim drol was bunk, I later found out that the person making that claim put on 8lbs in three weeks and he was using nothing but drol. Clients can claim products are bunk to get free gear or have unreasonable expectations. Scamming can occur on either side of a transaction.

You may very well be correct that there was an issue with four of the products you received, but I haven't received any reports of any issues from anyone else. You're complaining that you received extra var, which is something I've never seen someone be ungrateful for until now.

Labmax is a kit purchased on the Internet for the purpose of testing hormones. How does someone send a product "in for a labmax?" Labmax tests are thin evidence because they rely on color indicators and unskilled testing personnel. A labmax might be a decent indicator of what a sample is, but that initial indication needs to be followed up with testing from a reputable and verifiable lab that uses real analytical instruments. ALP's var has tested as var, with a real analytical lab: http://www.ecstasydata.org/results.php?start=0&search_field=all&s=anavar

If someone was taking dbol, in lieu of clomid or nolva, it seems like a real stretch for that person to have grown a gland that needs to be removed. Nolva and clomid can cause the same bloating dbol does. Per his post, JB already had gyno. Your portryal of K's products causing your friend to need "gyno surgery" is misleading:





1. The mislabeling is a claim for which you have presented no evidence. You could very well be right, mistakes get made by vendors, but I've personally never seen this issue come up with K before. I'm amazed you feel getting extra var is a problem, which according to your post, is cause of the "off counts."

2. Vendors typically rely on certificates of analysis that come from their chemical supplier. This is how the entire chemical / scientific industry works. When a quality issue arises, testing is conducted to be sure the next highest guy on the ladder is being honest. I have seen K mention that he has access to testing and that he was sending samples to be tested for his own QC about two months ago. Sources themselves are interested in having their products tested for QC purposes or because they are confident their products are proper, but they are limited by legal barriers.

B. The testing of one batch is relevant to another because it is likely coming from the same supplier further up the ladder. Depending on the volume of orders a suppler processes, the supplier may be pulling the product he is shipping from a drum or pail that could last for a long time. There is a chance the same product you received will be tested.

Which source in the community tests every product they sell every time?

3. Millard and I discussed crowd-funding a certified testing authority. Unfortunately, the feds demonstrated that they will not allow a DEA licensed lab to test PEDs for PED users. San Rafel Chemical Services was raided, had all of their information seized, and had to surrender their DEA license to test controlled substances because they were providing analytical testing to PED users. Obtaining concentration information from a lab, will cause that lab to get hammered by the feds, if the lab is discovered.

I was the person who proposed that the community use estacydata.org, over a year ago, well before joining the staff at AB. I made that proposal because it appears the community can not legally obtain concentration data. Estacydata.org is the most public, legitimate, and reliable testing authority I am aware of. Although they do not provide a milligram count, they will provide a ratio of active ingredients.

4. In #2 you state that K responded to your claim that a product was poor by having a sample tested. So, according to you, he has responded to your needs and is likely waiting for the results of the test he sent off. If he doesn't get back to you or you can't work out the problem you're having with him, contact a staff member at AB.

5. As far as I know, Gman and IM have nothing to do with K. They have been around for many years, with reputations in good standing, and having a good grasp of who people are in the community are though. They have both been participating at AB for a long time.

It seems that you have the same opinion of IM and Gman that they have of you regarding credibility. Nothing beneficial will come from you guys antagonizing each other. I don't like the child molester claim, it's like saying you want someone dead. The first time I saw that I thought it was real, wheels started turning.

IM and Gamn aside, I've seen you trash other guys who do positive things for the community that you are completely unaware of. My contact with you has always been good. However, you seem to have serious trouble separating the good guys from the bad guys, which is going to hurt your journey on the boards.

6. There is no posting conspiracy at work to bury anything at AB. Are you arguing that only you should be allowed to post in a thread?



A claim is not evidence. That's not to say that your claims are incorrect though.

What got brushed under the rug? I am a moderator from the board where k is. I am extremely busy and I wrote a thoughtful reply addressing your complaint as soon as I noticed it. Contact K and wait for a reply. If you can't work it out with him, contact me or another member of the staff.

You are encouraged to post anything you want, make whatever claims you want, and leave whatever feedback you desire. We don't hide/tamper with/delete feedback at AB. Feel free to ignore the guidance you're being offered by people who are more experienced than you are.

When I go to a restaurant for dinner and order a steak, if my steak isn't cooked as I ordered it, I politely ask the waitress to bring me a steak that is prepared the way I intended it to be. In response, I typically I receive an apology, a new steak, and sometimes a free desert. I do not immediately jump to the conclusion that the waitress, chef, frequent patrons, and management staff are all involved in a conspiracy to rip me off because there was a problem with my order. I do not take it upon myself to stand up on a chair in the center of the restaurant and shout to everyone who will listen to me that my order was bad and the restaurant is a scam that everyone is in on. Utilizing professional courtesy has served me well.



How can a consumer of sound mind feel that being exposed to fraudulent data is not harmful to their ability to make decisions? Presenting information that leads someone to believe something is good, when it is in fact bad, is as much a failure as leading someone to believe something is bad, when it is in fact good. My point is that easily manipulated tests from unverifiable or unquantifiable sources are being used to determine the validity of products, therefore testing results are more of a claim than the hard evidence they are being billed as.

I ran up against this issue recently when ItialianMuscle posted a mass spec test indicating a product contained 25% of what it should. The source, who has a good reputation, later sent me a mass spec indicating the product he used to make the batch was 99% pure. He swears up and down that the finished product contains appropriate amount of active ingredient. IM said he felt there was a typo in the concentration area of the test results he presented. It's extremely easy to present a fraudulent test (even unknowingly) and use that as evidence to claim as product is good or bad. Either test result could have been manipulated or screwed up by the unverifiable lab/lab tech conducting the test. I can't say that the product was correct and I can't say the product was incorrect, it was a stalemate. The source offered to replace the product though. Both parties presented evidence that product in question was good and bad. I trust both parties. The unknown in that situation was the evidence each man used to support their claim.

I worked in the financial services industry and have seen every form of evidence used to process a transaction manipulated to further someone's agenda.

Well, it's been one of those days regular and I can't fully respond to your post at the moment..

I talked to you once a long time ago but I mostly got to know you through Ben.. I know you're one of the good guys, and in my book, you're right up there with Millard and Mugzy..

What I'll say for now is this was not a reverse scam, I think brutus and I have both made it pretty clear we don't want anything.. Though I agree scams work both ways..

I sent var, anadrol, nolva, and dbol to a third party to labmax after we had questions.. Brutus ran the anadrol, nothing.. Brutus has now been running the var for close to 2 weeks at 80mg/day, nothing.. I was taking up to "150mg" of the Cialis, nothing(yes I've responded to Cialis before).. I ran the nolva and it was not keeping my gyno at bay.

The var and anadrol failed labmax.. The dbol is questionable as it didn't respond under UV.. The nolva tested similar to dbol and was not a nolva pass..

I emailed K 12 days ago, no response to me or brutus..

I also have adex and clomid, obviously haven't tested them but as I hope you can see, I don't have much faith..

We're sending a few samples in for MS on our own dime..

These are the facts as of now..

 

[Big_paul]

This could have played out diferently. It is completely out of hand.
The only thing we can do it test the product inn question to everyone s satisfaction.
Not much else to say here.

 

[brutus79]

The bulk of your claims are difficult to quantify. I've seen guys claim drol was bunk, I later found out that the person making that claim put on 8lbs in three weeks and he was using nothing but drol. Clients can claim products are bunk to get free gear or have unreasonable expectations. Scamming can occur on either side of a transaction.

You may very well be correct that there was an issue with four of the products you received, but I haven't received any reports of any issues from anyone else. You're complaining that you received extra var, which is something I've never seen someone be ungrateful for until now.

Labmax is a kit purchased on the Internet for the purpose of testing hormones. How does someone send a product "in for a labmax?" Labmax tests are thin evidence because they rely on color indicators and unskilled testing personnel. A labmax might be a decent indicator of what a sample is, but that initial indication needs to be followed up with testing from a reputable and verifiable lab that uses real analytical instruments. ALP's var has tested as var, with a real analytical lab: http://www.ecstasydata.org/results.php?start=0&search_field=all&s=anavar

If someone was taking dbol, in lieu of clomid or nolva, it seems like a real stretch for that person to have grown a gland that needs to be removed. Nolva and clomid can cause the same bloating dbol does. Per his post, JB already had gyno. Your portryal of K's products causing your friend to need "gyno surgery" is misleading:





1. The mislabeling is a claim for which you have presented no evidence. You could very well be right, mistakes get made by vendors, but I've personally never seen this issue come up with K before. I'm amazed you feel getting extra var is a problem, which according to your post, is cause of the "off counts."

2. Vendors typically rely on certificates of analysis that come from their chemical supplier. This is how the entire chemical / scientific industry works. When a quality issue arises, testing is conducted to be sure the next highest guy on the ladder is being honest. I have seen K mention that he has access to testing and that he was sending samples to be tested for his own QC about two months ago. Sources themselves are interested in having their products tested for QC purposes or because they are confident their products are proper, but they are limited by legal barriers.

B. The testing of one batch is relevant to another because it is likely coming from the same supplier further up the ladder. Depending on the volume of orders a suppler processes, the supplier may be pulling the product he is shipping from a drum or pail that could last for a long time. There is a chance the same product you received will be tested.

Which source in the community tests every product they sell every time?

3. Millard and I discussed crowd-funding a certified testing authority. Unfortunately, the feds demonstrated that they will not allow a DEA licensed lab to test PEDs for PED users. San Rafel Chemical Services was raided, had all of their information seized, and had to surrender their DEA license to test controlled substances because they were providing analytical testing to PED users. Obtaining concentration information from a lab, will cause that lab to get hammered by the feds, if the lab is discovered.

I was the person who proposed that the community use estacydata.org, over a year ago, well before joining the staff at AB. I made that proposal because it appears the community can not legally obtain concentration data. Estacydata.org is the most public, legitimate, and reliable testing authority I am aware of. Although they do not provide a milligram count, they will provide a ratio of active ingredients.

4. In #2 you state that K responded to your claim that a product was poor by having a sample tested. So, according to you, he has responded to your needs and is likely waiting for the results of the test he sent off. If he doesn't get back to you or you can't work out the problem you're having with him, contact a staff member at AB.

5. As far as I know, Gman and IM have nothing to do with K. They have been around for many years, with reputations in good standing, and having a good grasp of who people are in the community are though. They have both been participating at AB for a long time.

It seems that you have the same opinion of IM and Gman that they have of you regarding credibility. Nothing beneficial will come from you guys antagonizing each other. I don't like the child molester claim, it's like saying you want someone dead. The first time I saw that I thought it was real, wheels started turning.

IM and Gamn aside, I've seen you trash other guys who do positive things for the community that you are completely unaware of. My contact with you has always been good. However, you seem to have serious trouble separating the good guys from the bad guys, which is going to hurt your journey on the boards.

6. There is no posting conspiracy at work to bury anything at AB. Are you arguing that only you should be allowed to post in a thread?



A claim is not evidence. That's not to say that your claims are incorrect though.

What got brushed under the rug? I am a moderator from the board where k is. I am extremely busy and I wrote a thoughtful reply addressing your complaint as soon as I noticed it. Contact K and wait for a reply. If you can't work it out with him, contact me or another member of the staff.

You are encouraged to post anything you want, make whatever claims you want, and leave whatever feedback you desire. We don't hide/tamper with/delete feedback at AB. Feel free to ignore the guidance you're being offered by people who are more experienced than you are.

When I go to a restaurant for dinner and order a steak, if my steak isn't cooked as I ordered it, I politely ask the waitress to bring me a steak that is prepared the way I intended it to be. In response, I typically I receive an apology, a new steak, and sometimes a free desert. I do not immediately jump to the conclusion that the waitress, chef, frequent patrons, and management staff are all involved in a conspiracy to rip me off because there was a problem with my order. I do not take it upon myself to stand up on a chair in the center of the restaurant and shout to everyone who will listen to me that my order was bad and the restaurant is a scam that everyone is in on. Utilizing professional courtesy has served me well.



How can a consumer of sound mind feel that being exposed to fraudulent data is not harmful to their ability to make decisions? Presenting information that leads someone to believe something is good, when it is in fact bad, is as much a failure as leading someone to believe something is bad, when it is in fact good. My point is that easily manipulated tests from unverifiable or unquantifiable sources are being used to determine the validity of products, therefore testing results are more of a claim than the hard evidence they are being billed as.

I ran up against this issue recently when ItialianMuscle posted a mass spec test indicating a product contained 25% of what it should. The source, who has a good reputation, later sent me a mass spec indicating the product he used to make the batch was 99% pure. He swears up and down that the finished product contains appropriate amount of active ingredient. IM said he felt there was a typo in the concentration area of the test results he presented. It's extremely easy to present a fraudulent test (even unknowingly) and use that as evidence to claim as product is good or bad. Either test result could have been manipulated or screwed up by the unverifiable lab/lab tech conducting the test. I can't say that the product was correct and I can't say the product was incorrect, it was a stalemate. The source offered to replace the product though. Both parties presented evidence that product in question was good and bad. I trust both parties. The unknown in that situation was the evidence each man used to support their claim.

I worked in the financial services industry and have seen every form of evidence used to process a transaction manipulated to further someone's agenda.

Again regular- you are a person I have quite a bit of respect for- and my respect I have for people I don't really know well is very limited to say the least. I appreciate you taking the time to address me not once, but twice- and botg times with eloquence and respect... Much unlike some of the aforementioned parties I have had less than cordial interactions with. As far as "the boards" my home is here... and I will keep a respectful distance from those who rub me the wrong way.

Wanting someone dead... shit- I wish five people dead on my way to work every day. I didn't actually say it although he served up the mother of all insults to me- had we been in person there would be people in the hospital over it. Just how I grew up. Thanks for not hacking my home network and posting those pics of me raping a unicorn boss! I appreciate it.

My closing argument is that I wouldn't even complain about a steak- just eat the sides and make do... they would probably wipe their ass with it anyway. If I got a bad drink, steak, salad and dessert I would walk out and tell everyone I know to never go there again.

I get the fallibility of my "personal reactions" to compounds. It is what it is- maybe some Ethiopian would have made a swell meal out of that steak. I am sorry that my reaction was unpalatable (to stay with the food puns) to some; for the most part my personality tends to be incompatible with the majority. Again- thanks for coming at me like a man instead of immediately attacking my integrity. I don't want my meal refunded and I will provide mass spec results that will be immediately discredited by those that disagree with my tactics and dispositions. I sleep well at night as long as I don't think you are tracking me down- then it's one eye open time. Until then- I am in no more need of karius or his services... at the very least I know my body chemistry is immune to many of his compounds.

 

[devildog93]

This isn't a steak you can send back Regular, especially in the case of pct meds turning out to be dbol. When people send out garbage to customers in this realm someone's health can be at risk.

Brutus had a batch tested and K responded by sending some of his own stuff in to test. Find and dandy right? Can you not see where that is a problem? Who is to say that K didn't send his "good" stuff to be tested? Ever hear of selective scamming? Sounds like the banking industry regulating itself, but i'm sure that works fine.

Of course the same could be said of Brutus, but i don't really see what he would get out of that. To the best of my knowledge he isn't selling anything. He just wants what he ordered and in the amount he ordered. The person with the most to lose or gain is K.

As to moderated boards and their regulation...well if you are saying they are not skewed towards sources(the people that pay the bills) i think you are being naive at best. Those of us who have been around long enough have seen people burned at the stake for calling out a source on a sponsored board. Posts removed, users banned, tests called into question. On sponsored boards it leans heavily in favor of the sources. Things are swept under the rug. That isn't the case here. I lean in favor of the user unless i have reason to believe otherwise.

So in the end we have Brutus' word and testing versus K's word. Knowing how things go in this business and what we have seen of late i am going to throw the pitchfork at the source more often than not. What sounds more believable...a source jacking shit up or a member burning someone out of hand? I have run out of fingers to count the sources that have misled customers during my stay here, but can't say i remember a source being called out without justification.

Take your ass back to AB and peddle your nonsense somewhere they will listen. I hear alin is looking for more "doctors" to write excuses for his shit gear and people's poor bloodwork, perhaps you can try to get a position with his staff.

 

[tacohuman]

The bulk of your claims are difficult to quantify. I've seen guys claim drol was bunk, I later found out that the person making that claim put on 8lbs in three weeks and he was using nothing but drol. Clients can claim products are bunk to get free gear or have unreasonable expectations. Scamming can occur on either side of a transaction.

You may very well be correct that there was an issue with four of the products you received, but I haven't received any reports of any issues from anyone else. You're complaining that you received extra var, which is something I've never seen someone be ungrateful for until now.

Labmax is a kit purchased on the Internet for the purpose of testing hormones. How does someone send a product "in for a labmax?" Labmax tests are thin evidence because they rely on color indicators and unskilled testing personnel. A labmax might be a decent indicator of what a sample is, but that initial indication needs to be followed up with testing from a reputable and verifiable lab that uses real analytical instruments. ALP's var has tested as var, with a real analytical lab: http://www.ecstasydata.org/results.php?start=0&search_field=all&s=anavar

If someone was taking dbol, in lieu of clomid or nolva, it seems like a real stretch for that person to have grown a gland that needs to be removed. Nolva and clomid can cause the same bloating dbol does. Per his post, JB already had gyno. Your portryal of K's products causing your friend to need "gyno surgery" is misleading:





1. The mislabeling is a claim for which you have presented no evidence. You could very well be right, mistakes get made by vendors, but I've personally never seen this issue come up with K before. I'm amazed you feel getting extra var is a problem, which according to your post, is cause of the "off counts."

2. Vendors typically rely on certificates of analysis that come from their chemical supplier. This is how the entire chemical / scientific industry works. When a quality issue arises, testing is conducted to be sure the next highest guy on the ladder is being honest. I have seen K mention that he has access to testing and that he was sending samples to be tested for his own QC about two months ago. Sources themselves are interested in having their products tested for QC purposes or because they are confident their products are proper, but they are limited by legal barriers.

B. The testing of one batch is relevant to another because it is likely coming from the same supplier further up the ladder. Depending on the volume of orders a suppler processes, the supplier may be pulling the product he is shipping from a drum or pail that could last for a long time. There is a chance the same product you received will be tested.

Which source in the community tests every product they sell every time?

3. Millard and I discussed crowd-funding a certified testing authority. Unfortunately, the feds demonstrated that they will not allow a DEA licensed lab to test PEDs for PED users. San Rafel Chemical Services was raided, had all of their information seized, and had to surrender their DEA license to test controlled substances because they were providing analytical testing to PED users. Obtaining concentration information from a lab, will cause that lab to get hammered by the feds, if the lab is discovered.

I was the person who proposed that the community use estacydata.org, over a year ago, well before joining the staff at AB. I made that proposal because it appears the community can not legally obtain concentration data. Estacydata.org is the most public, legitimate, and reliable testing authority I am aware of. Although they do not provide a milligram count, they will provide a ratio of active ingredients.

4. In #2 you state that K responded to your claim that a product was poor by having a sample tested. So, according to you, he has responded to your needs and is likely waiting for the results of the test he sent off. If he doesn't get back to you or you can't work out the problem you're having with him, contact a staff member at AB.

5. As far as I know, Gman and IM have nothing to do with K. They have been around for many years, with reputations in good standing, and having a good grasp of who people are in the community are though. They have both been participating at AB for a long time.

It seems that you have the same opinion of IM and Gman that they have of you regarding credibility. Nothing beneficial will come from you guys antagonizing each other. I don't like the child molester claim, it's like saying you want someone dead. The first time I saw that I thought it was real, wheels started turning.

IM and Gamn aside, I've seen you trash other guys who do positive things for the community that you are completely unaware of. My contact with you has always been good. However, you seem to have serious trouble separating the good guys from the bad guys, which is going to hurt your journey on the boards.

6. There is no posting conspiracy at work to bury anything at AB. Are you arguing that only you should be allowed to post in a thread?



A claim is not evidence. That's not to say that your claims are incorrect though.

What got brushed under the rug? I am a moderator from the board where k is. I am extremely busy and I wrote a thoughtful reply addressing your complaint as soon as I noticed it. Contact K and wait for a reply. If you can't work it out with him, contact me or another member of the staff.

You are encouraged to post anything you want, make whatever claims you want, and leave whatever feedback you desire. We don't hide/tamper with/delete feedback at AB. Feel free to ignore the guidance you're being offered by people who are more experienced than you are.

When I go to a restaurant for dinner and order a steak, if my steak isn't cooked as I ordered it, I politely ask the waitress to bring me a steak that is prepared the way I intended it to be. In response, I typically I receive an apology, a new steak, and sometimes a free desert. I do not immediately jump to the conclusion that the waitress, chef, frequent patrons, and management staff are all involved in a conspiracy to rip me off because there was a problem with my order. I do not take it upon myself to stand up on a chair in the center of the restaurant and shout to everyone who will listen to me that my order was bad and the restaurant is a scam that everyone is in on. Utilizing professional courtesy has served me well.



How can a consumer of sound mind feel that being exposed to fraudulent data is not harmful to their ability to make decisions? Presenting information that leads someone to believe something is good, when it is in fact bad, is as much a failure as leading someone to believe something is bad, when it is in fact good. My point is that easily manipulated tests from unverifiable or unquantifiable sources are being used to determine the validity of products, therefore testing results are more of a claim than the hard evidence they are being billed as.

I ran up against this issue recently when ItialianMuscle posted a mass spec test indicating a product contained 25% of what it should. The source, who has a good reputation, later sent me a mass spec indicating the product he used to make the batch was 99% pure. He swears up and down that the finished product contains appropriate amount of active ingredient. IM said he felt there was a typo in the concentration area of the test results he presented. It's extremely easy to present a fraudulent test (even unknowingly) and use that as evidence to claim as product is good or bad. Either test result could have been manipulated or screwed up by the unverifiable lab/lab tech conducting the test. I can't say that the product was correct and I can't say the product was incorrect, it was a stalemate. The source offered to replace the product though. Both parties presented evidence that product in question was good and bad. I trust both parties. The unknown in that situation was the evidence each man used to support their claim.

I worked in the financial services industry and have seen every form of evidence used to process a transaction manipulated to further someone's agenda.

This is a well thought out and very professional response. I think if IM or Gman had responded like this instead of going on the attack this thread may have turned out differently.

The two disagreements I have are:

1 - the analogy is nice, but misleading. Customer service in food service doesn't compare to dbol vs. Nolva.

2 - your comparison to CoAs used in chemical/scientific fields is good. However, those are batch specific and are available if an issue arises. Where are Ks tests? I read somewhere he allegedly tests his raws, though it was secondhand.

To be honest I dont care about any of this beyond the fact that IM and Gman were behaving like shills. I guarantee you Watson and Pfizer and all those other big drug companies have nonconforming product and complaint records about how and when they fucked up. Refusing to admit that K is even capable of a mistake is absurd.

 

[Mr.Bravo]

Brilliant post taco

 

[bickel29]

Like the old saying goes, this too shall pass. A few months down the road, this thread will be a memory.

What will not be forgotten will be how each member has handled themselves here. That, my friends, is what separates the members of character from those just making noise.

It doesn't matter which side you are on, it doesn't matter what you believe the truth to be. Most of us just want the truth out there, including some who have been most vocal here. But some of the members have said much more about themselves, through the words they used toward others. Funny how that works out sometimes.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

There is no climate of fear at AB. I had a hand in having three sources kicked off of AB completely. In response, I was promoted to VIP and later promoted to staff.


Neither IM or Gman represent K. Gman is not a VIP at AB, although he probably should be. VIPs, on boards that don't protect scammers, are the most experienced, knowledgeable, and cut throat source critics.

The "evidence" should be treated as a claim because the product being tested and the results can be easily manipulated. Representing fraudulent data as legitimate is just as harmful as suppressing valid data, for both the vendor and consumer. I'm in favor of testing but there are limitations to tests results.

I just want to quickly address a couple of the points you raised and it should be noted that none of my comments are directed at AB per se, as I have no experience with that forum.

The "climate of fear" that I mentioned can be seen by looking at how Johnny and Brutus' complaints have been received. The personal attacks have been vicious and will certainly result in others being reluctant to come forward - both now and in the future. Especially among newer members.

You say neither IM or GM represent K. That might be true in an official sense, however their responses to this issue have gone way beyond what any reasonable person would expect from concerned members of the community who are just trying to help. Both IM and GM reacted as though these complaints were a attack on them personally and responded by going after Brutus and Johnny's credibility. They've also devoted an extraordinary amount of time to this, going far beyond what is reasonable for a supposedly detached third-party. So while IM and GM might not be reps in an official capacity, their posts on several forums should leave no doubt that they have a vested interest in this source. I fully understand you are friends with these two but if you ignore your emotional involvement and view their behavior objectively, I'm confident you'll come to the same conclusion as practically everyone on Meso.


You stated that VIP's are "the most experienced, knowledgeable, and cut throat source critics."

Experienced? Perhaps with board history and knowing the online source business.

Knowledgeable? I think it's probably fair to say that VIP's are knowledgeable about forums and with the online source business but that's it. Other than that, it's a mistake to believe a VIP is knowledgeable about anything just because they are a VIP. For proof, one need look no further than the rampant bro science that permeates "top heavy" forums like TID.

It's also a mistake to believe VIP's are automatically trustworthy because they are VIP's. Again, for proof one need look no further that the fact that several ProMuscle mods hold VIP status on boards that don't protect scammers.

Cut throat source critics? Certainly not in this case with IM and GK. Instead, they have been cut throat customer critics.

Finally, a few words about your comment that "evidence" should be treated as a claim." I disagree with that statement. Evidence is used to support or refute the claim but it is never the claim itself. Evidence is evidence. Nothing more, nothing less. It can be strong or it can be weak but it is still evidence that can be weighed to help determine the truth.

Regards

CBS

 

[graniteman]

I've made my feelings clear on the value of VIP titles in the past but I'll say this: ItalianMuscle and Graniteman's posts, both here and on other forums, have clearly demonstrated that they are acting as representatives for Karius and their credibility is destroyed.

If, as I understand the practice, forum owners truly award VIP titles to members that have gained their trust, then it is imperative that these two members be stripped of their VIP status immediately or the forum's credibility, and by extension, that of the forum owner, will be irreparably harmed.

HAHAHAHA Well shit if you say so CBS it must happen. I mean you're so widely known and respected throughout the boards!! Funny you guys have been run off EVERY board you go on , like a plague
So now Brutus , your FEARLESS Leader decides it's time to PM member here instead of just openly posting his complaints? Check the ''what kinda guy thread''.. Fuckin hypocrites. AND Yes IM is right, it sure as hell sounds and looks like a reverse scam to everybody. NOT ONE OTHER SINGLE COMPLAINT. Just Brutus and Jball..You all don't find that a little odd?