Low libido and ED since coming off of gel

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

I was on Testogel for years. I’d apply it onto skin that was dermarolled for better absorption. I used 1mg of anastrozole a week, split Tues/thurs/sat/sun. Also used 200iu HCG EOD

Testosterone was 1300ng/dl
Estradiol was 40pg/ml
DHT was 460ng/dl (about 16x the normal range)

I felt great. Libido was good. Erections were good.

I’ve switched to test enanthate, and I’m using a higher dose to accommodate for the lower DHT you get with injections. I’m on 210mg (60mg EOD), 1.5mg anastrozole a week, and 200iu HCG EOD.

Testosterone is 1900ng/dl
Estradiol is 35pg/ml
DHT is 80ng/dl

All other biomarkers are fine, including prolactin, FBC, thyroid, blood pressure, and everything else.

Libido is shit. No morning wood. Erections are shit. Sildenafil and tadalafil don’t help. I’m thinking it’s the DHT. I’m thinking of taking some proviron.

Any ideas?

 

[JeffroCat]

What's your free testosterone for both gel and injection?

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

What's your free testosterone for both gel and injection?

28.4ng/dl for Testogel
47.3ng/dl for test enanthate

 

[Eddie.]

Man, i don't think i can help you but i guess this sucks big time. Is there a chance you got used to skyhigh DHT levels and now you feel the withdrawl? Despite they're still high.

How long since you switched to injections? Maybe there's some time needed for hormones to balance because everytime hormones fluctuate libido and errections may be affected. When i started with test my libido went up but errection quality sucked, after 2 months it balanced out and they're both ok now. But many guys after endind a blast which leads having crazy high test and dht levels when they return to trt dose that's still higher than normal they may experience libido and errection issues, until hormones balance again.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

Man, i don't think i can help you but i guess this sucks big time. Is there a chance you got used to skyhigh DHT levels and now you feel the withdrawl? Despite they're still high.

How long since you switched to injections? Maybe there's some time needed for hormones to balance because everytime hormones fluctuate libido and errections may be affected. When i started with test my libido went up but errection quality sucked, after 2 months it balanced out and they're both ok now. But many guys after endind a blast which leads having crazy high test and dht levels when they return to trt dose that's still higher than normal they may experience libido and errection issues, until hormones balance again.

Thanks for the reply. I was on injections for a year before the Testogel and felt shit. I switched to the gel for that reason, and felt good. So I’m thinking it’s definitely DHT related

 

[Eddie.]

Thanks for the reply. I was on injections for a year before the Testogel and felt shit. I switched to the gel for that reason, and felt good. So I’m thinking it’s definitely DHT related

And now for how long you're back to test E after the gel?

 

[Eddie.]

I have a friend that he loves proviron with TRT. You could try 25mg per day and see if there's any improvement. The pde5 you took are they pharma? Because if not there's a chance they're bunk. It happened to me with tadalafil..only pharma does the job. If your libido sucks then it's pretty obvious they're not gonna work, but if you have some interest and they don't work, it seems weird to me. On the other hand, i've seen reports from guys with post finasteride syndrome with crushed dht and they can't function even with pde5 inhibitors so yeah, you must be right

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

And now for how long you're back to test E after the gel?

About 45 days now

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

I have a friend that he loves proviron with TRT. You could try 25mg per day and see if there's any improvement. The pde5 you took are they pharma? Because if not there's a chance they're bunk. It happened to me with tadalafil..only pharma does the job. If your libido sucks then it's pretty obvious they're not gonna work, but if you have some interest and they don't work, it seems weird to me. On the other hand, i've seen reports from guys with post finasteride syndrome with crushed dht and they can't function even with pde5 inhibitors so yeah, you must be right

I get pharma pde5is. I buy them in bulk from a pharmacy and get them cheap.

I’ve ordered some proviron. I’ll give 25mg a day a go. Thanks

 

[OldGHGuy]

You might try cutting back on the Anastrozole if you wish to stay at 1900 (this is not TRT BTW). Some believe (myself included) that the libido/wood issues are often related to the T/E2 RATIO. Since you went from 1300/40 (32.5) to 1900/35 (54.2) you have experienced problems. At 1900, your E2 would need to be at 58.4 to have the same ratio as when libido/wood was good. So, either raise your E2 or cut down on the T (recommended) to get your ratio back to the 32.5 area. This should solve your problem IMO. But you also have to give tour system a chance to normalize, so this could take several weeks.

Adding more drugs to the mix are not the answer IMO.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

You might try cutting back on the Anastrozole if you wish to stay at 1900 (this is not TRT BTW). Some believe (myself included) that the libido/wood issues are often related to the T/E2 RATIO. Since you went from 1300/40 (32.5) to 1900/35 (54.2) you have experienced problems. At 1900, your E2 would need to be at 58.4 to have the same ratio as when libido/wood was good. So, either raise your E2 or cut down on the T (recommended) to get your ratio back to the 32.5 area. This should solve your problem IMO. But you also have to give tour system a chance to normalize, so this could take several weeks.

Adding more drugs to the mix are not the answer IMO.

when I first started Testogel I was without an AI for 10 months and I had ED, no libido, couldn’t cum, and I had quite bad ankle edema. I titrated the anastrozole up to 1mg a week and those symptoms went within about 10 days.

Now whenever I change my T dose, I titrate the anastrozole to the lowest dose needed to stop the ankle edema.

I’ve tried lowering the AI dose, and every time my ED worsens, libido worsens, and edema is back within 48 hours.

I use ankle edema as the metric for proper estradiol levels.

As for my T dosage, when I was on injectable T before, my T was around 1000ng/dl and that was the worst I’ve ever felt. I definitely do feel better when my T is above “normal”, but I agree my dose may be a little high at the moment.

 

[OldGHGuy]

when I first started Testogel I was without an AI for 10 months and I had ED, no libido, couldn’t cum, and I had quite bad ankle edema. I titrated the anastrozole up to 1mg a week and those symptoms went within about 10 days.

Now whenever I change my T dose, I titrate the anastrozole to the lowest dose needed to stop the ankle edema.

I’ve tried lowering the AI dose, and every time my ED worsens, libido worsens, and edema is back within 48 hours.

I use ankle edema as the metric for proper estradiol levels.

As for my T dosage, when I was on injectable T before, my T was around 1000ng/dl and that was the worst I’ve ever felt. I definitely do feel better when my T is above “normal”, but I agree my dose may be a little high at the moment.

well good luck!

 

[BachmanityInsanity]

Is that sky high conversion to DHT typical with gels? Everyone must have an inflamed prostate!

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

well good luck!

Thanks man

Is that sky high conversion to DHT typical with gels? Everyone must have an inflamed prostate!

Yeah it’s normal. Studies on it show that testogel causes a 1:4 DHT to T ratio

 

[OldGHGuy]

My estrogen conversion was also almost double on Androgel vs Test C

 

[BachmanityInsanity]

Thanks man


Yeah it’s normal. Studies on it show that testogel causes a 1:4 DHT to T ratio

Wow because not even the good UK trt clinics test Dht levels. So a lot of guys getting silent side effects on their prostate, maybe some LVH from the abnormal DHT?

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

Wow because not even the good UK trt clinics test Dht levels. So a lot of guys getting silent side effects on their prostate, maybe some LVH from the abnormal DHT?

I’ve looked into it a bit, and I believe that much like androgenetic alopecia, prostate pathologies are androgen DEPENDENT but not androgen MEDIATED.

In other words, a minimum level of androgenic activity is needed to stimulate baldness or prostate issues, but excess androgens do not accelerate their progression.

Much like how you can’t fill a glass of water beyond its full point, you can’t accelerate baldness or prostate pathologies beyond their saturation point. At least, that’s the theory I have based on what I’ve read.

 

[BachmanityInsanity]

I’ve looked into it a bit, and I believe that much like androgenetic alopecia, prostate pathologies are androgen DEPENDENT but not androgen MEDIATED.

In other words, a minimum level of androgenic activity is needed to stimulate baldness or prostate issues, but excess androgens do not accelerate their progression.

Much like how you can’t fill a glass of water beyond its full point, you can’t accelerate baldness or prostate pathologies beyond their saturation point. At least, that’s the theory I have based on what I’ve read.

where did you read this? Can you post links? I’d like to see what evidence is used.

What level is the saturation point in your reading? that seems the main point here. Thx

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

where did you read this? Can you post links? I’d like to see what evidence is used.

What level is the saturation point in your reading? that seems the main point here. Thx

My “evidence” is that there’s not a clear link between TRT and prostate pathologies, likely because men who are hypogonadal are usually still above this threshold of androgen saturation.

Prostate Safety Events During Testosterone Replacement Therapy

This randomized clinical trial examines the effects of testosterone replacement therapy on major adverse cardiovascular events in men with hypogonadism.

jamanetwork.com

“Epidemiologic studies have not found a consistent association between prostate cancer risk and testosterone levels or polymorphisms in genes involved in androgen action”

This is weird, because androgen deprivation therapy works for preventing and treating prostate pathologies, yet TRT doesn’t seem to cause them.

As for baldness, my source is how baldness progresses. Baldness requires genes, age, and androgens. If you’ve got the genes, and you’ve got the androgens, but you’re 14, you won’t be bald, as you’re not old enough. When you start balding, it progresses with age, not with androgens. My DHT went from normal to 16x what’s normal, yet my baldness did not accelerate any more than the rate it was at before. This makes sense, as the mediator is age, not androgens. The high DHT may have made a measurable acceleration, but it was certainly imperceptible.

Of course this is mostly conjecture. But I’m not seeing any better theories.

 

[massgainer87]

You could try switching to test prop and inject ED vor EOD. Thats what gave me crazy libido.

I dont know if that will give you more dht though