Iron_Yuppie
Well-known Member
I’ll add this to the body of work: on MENT-only at 2mg/d my e2 came in at 5 pg/ML with an LC/MS-MS assay. Either it doesn’t show up in blood work or it is not a huge e2 bomb until you hit a specific dose.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
MENT solo in lieu of TRT
- Thread starter bigdaddyandfriends
- Start date
bigdaddyandfriends
New Member
I'm almost certain the 7a-methylestradiol is not detectable. So effectively, your total E2 was that 5pg/mL plus whatever the 7a-methylestradiol was. How did you feel at the time bloods were drawn ? 5 pg would be a crashed E2, you'd definitely have known it...
Iron_Yuppie
Well-known Member
I felt ok. Never had any symptoms of low e2, so my assumption was that the measured number didn’t reflect reality. Overall MENT was good for my specific needs, but it wasn’t a superior replacement for testosterone. If not for the insane BP issues I’d definitely use it again. But then that’s like saying if not for the lung cancer smoking would be appealing, so maybe not quite a ringing endorsement of the compound.
bigdaddyandfriends
New Member
Just an update, I've been running 25mg MENT daily for last several weeks. Nice gains.
As @Type-IIx has mentioned here previously, the estrogenic effects are very significant. I'm running 25mg Asin daily. I also have now added Adex 0.5mg daily, but dropping that to EoD now. I am not running any test so using a test base alongside the MENT would further increase the need for AI. Also I cannot gauge estrogen with my nipples as I've been using Ralox from the beginning, so have to rely on my emotions, Johnson, and joints to dial in the AI usage.
I'm still loving the MENT but estrogen management is a bitch for sure. Otherwise there seem to be no ill effects from it, other than oily skin.
As @Type-IIx has mentioned here previously, the estrogenic effects are very significant. I'm running 25mg Asin daily. I also have now added Adex 0.5mg daily, but dropping that to EoD now. I am not running any test so using a test base alongside the MENT would further increase the need for AI. Also I cannot gauge estrogen with my nipples as I've been using Ralox from the beginning, so have to rely on my emotions, Johnson, and joints to dial in the AI usage.
I'm still loving the MENT but estrogen management is a bitch for sure. Otherwise there seem to be no ill effects from it, other than oily skin.
JackSkel
Member
Get blood test. The e2 contribution isn’t THAT much requiring all that AI.
bigdaddyandfriends
New Member
Normally I'd agree, but I'm not sure bloods will help much here, since the 7a-methylestradiol is undetectable. If I do get a test, I have no doubt my detectable estradiol would be in the toilet with 25 Asin + Adex. But I have zero low E2 symptoms... have I have crashed it before so know exactly what it feels like - zero libido, poor energy, weak in the gym, and joints that feel like I'm 90 years old. Even with all the AI use, I'm still making gains in the gym with good energy and joints feel great.
The fact that I don't have low E2 symptoms with that much AI is saying something about the conversion with MENT, at least for me. My body fat is not too high either, my Renpho scale reads ~15% but I have visible if not deep abs so think it is more like 12-13%; those scales are basically useless for bodybuilders even in 'athlete' mode, although the trends over time can be helpful in adjusting diet.
You don't have low e2 symptoms because aromasin and adex don't work on nandrolone based drugs. Trestolone converts to estrogen through the liver.
petefox
Member
I ran 200mg MENT Enanthate with 200mg Stenbolone Acetate per week for 10 weeks recently. My E2 came back 3pg, but I had no issues with libido or erectile function even lipids were fine.
It did make me a bit anxious around week 9, then again I'm used to 150mg weekly acetate version for 6-8 weeks with my TRT dose.
I used no AI, only 400mg Di-Indole Methane daily but I have other ancillaries if needed. Blood pressure was fine (est. 117/65 weekly) and strength and endurance was crazy. I'd do it again with at least my TRT dose and higher calorie intake, as I'm going on 48 and have no desire to be over 230lbs again at this point.
It did make me a bit anxious around week 9, then again I'm used to 150mg weekly acetate version for 6-8 weeks with my TRT dose.
I used no AI, only 400mg Di-Indole Methane daily but I have other ancillaries if needed. Blood pressure was fine (est. 117/65 weekly) and strength and endurance was crazy. I'd do it again with at least my TRT dose and higher calorie intake, as I'm going on 48 and have no desire to be over 230lbs again at this point.
Was on TRT dose of Test(ranging from 100-160mg/week) and switched to 3-4mg/ED of MENT/Trest Ace. LDL went down, HDL up, BP down, resting HR down- basically it improved all health markers except for E2, T, LH, FSH. All of those are tanked but I feel better. Libido is still through the roof and I've been on for a year now. Also nuts shrank a lot so I cycle some hcg every other month.
For me it has been a great TRT replacement but if you don't have any adverse reactions of sides from trt dose of test I'd probably just stick with it given the long and vast track record of use in humans.
For me it has been a great TRT replacement but if you don't have any adverse reactions of sides from trt dose of test I'd probably just stick with it given the long and vast track record of use in humans.
bigdaddyandfriends
New Member
That’s true about track record and accumulated data. However, just because something is bioidentical doesn’t necessarily mean it is the best.
Over the long haul I would not at all be surprised if Trestolone (as opposed to testosterone) Replacement Therapy were found to have more favorable biomarkers (ie lipid profile, hematocrit) and health endpoints (CV disease, prostate CA & BPH) - as well as better cosmetic outcome in terms of hair retention and of course getting swole af.
I recomp’ed significantly on just 5 mg/day compared to my previous enclo monotherapy (bloods were 733 total, 134 free T). And I feel way better on Trestolone too, even without any testosterone in my body.
bulkyblueberry
New Member
You guys had such a fascinating discussion here omg.
Sir, you are brave, I only know one person who ran it a whole year around. I think the mistake was to order the sensitive E2 test, I think you should have had the immunoassay or similar, I bet they will crossdetect 7a-methylestradiol with a simpler test. It's not straight forward since you need to cancel out other compounds that might cross reference, but for a start?
Sir, you are brave, I only know one person who ran it a whole year around. I think the mistake was to order the sensitive E2 test, I think you should have had the immunoassay or similar, I bet they will crossdetect 7a-methylestradiol with a simpler test. It's not straight forward since you need to cancel out other compounds that might cross reference, but for a start?
lukiss96
Well-known Member
Great insight, shows how different we are all.
It's true, Testosterone is the most studied and especially for this purpose. So it's very hard to find a substitution.
saxtonhale1
New Member
So I'm not getting the great libido (bad even) benefits others seem to be getting. I'm doing the following dosing:
180 mg Test E MWF
180 mg Primo E MWF
10 mg Trest A ED
I was getting some sensitivity in my nipples so I added 25 mg Asin (M/F). After adding Aromasin the libido has improved a bit but I noticed my libido is best if I skip a day of Trest A or on Sunday when my Test and Primo is at it's minimum.
Gonna do bloodwork soon since my work is easing up right now. I read that MENT's aromitized version of Estrogen is not detectable in ultrasensitive but it's detectable in sensitive is this true? Any thing I should check for libido?
180 mg Test E MWF
180 mg Primo E MWF
10 mg Trest A ED
I was getting some sensitivity in my nipples so I added 25 mg Asin (M/F). After adding Aromasin the libido has improved a bit but I noticed my libido is best if I skip a day of Trest A or on Sunday when my Test and Primo is at it's minimum.
Gonna do bloodwork soon since my work is easing up right now. I read that MENT's aromitized version of Estrogen is not detectable in ultrasensitive but it's detectable in sensitive is this true? Any thing I should check for libido?
bulkyblueberry
New Member
You know how some of the cheapest E2 tests were picking up a much higher number of it your blood, but it is tren. Idk 100% but the cheapest E2, E... might pick up something. Could also be trestolone, but a number is better than no number.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
No, a number is not better than no number.
Aromasin is cross-reactive with estradiol in the nonsensitive test, and MENT probably is to a very high degree also.
You're far better off just letting symptoms/tolerability dictate AI use - or even better, compound selection (i.e., avoid MENT if its estrogenicity is intolerable).
bulkyblueberry
New Member
Why are you taking Test, DHT-derivative, and Ment (Test and Estrogen replacement therapy) at the same time? Be careful
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
If I had to use MENT, this is pretty much how I'd run it. Do you have a rationale to support your intimation that he has to "be careful" with this perfectly fine cycle?
Ment 10/ed and Primo 150/week split in 2
Has been amazing, for the last 6 months or so. Minimal bloat, BP is good, normal appetite and libido at age 50. Nice lean gains due to keeping diet in check. If anything I'm slightly under eating.
When I push the Ment above 10/Ed is where I start to see issues with bloat and BP increase, due to water retention I'm sure. I've used it with and without a TRT test dose at approx 150mg/week split. I didn't notice much of a difference either.
Seems to be a compound that works very well for some, and not at all for others.
Has been amazing, for the last 6 months or so. Minimal bloat, BP is good, normal appetite and libido at age 50. Nice lean gains due to keeping diet in check. If anything I'm slightly under eating.
When I push the Ment above 10/Ed is where I start to see issues with bloat and BP increase, due to water retention I'm sure. I've used it with and without a TRT test dose at approx 150mg/week split. I didn't notice much of a difference either.
Seems to be a compound that works very well for some, and not at all for others.
boophomet
Member
I'm interested in adding Ment to my trt. I already pin daily doing 15mg of test prop, so adding 5mg Ment/day would be easy. Is it recommended to pair with a DHT like with nandrolone? I can get by but both Mast and Primo make my acne hard to control.
Several months ago I dropped all other compounds and did the Ment HRT attempt. IIRC, I felt awesome between 2-4mg/day but my nuts literally dwindled to micro nuts.
They had never been that small in almost 15 years of using almost every gear ever made. I’m early 40s and kinda like the idea of keeping functional testes and SOME sperm production so I had to quit it.
Not going to lie though, this thread makes me want to add 5-10mg/daily of Ment to my test/tren/mast/primo cycle for a few weeks just for the sex drive increase and mental boost. But I don’t want mini-nuts again as I have a decent amount of sexy time encounters scheduled over the next 2 weeks with a fairly new lady friend.
They had never been that small in almost 15 years of using almost every gear ever made. I’m early 40s and kinda like the idea of keeping functional testes and SOME sperm production so I had to quit it.
Not going to lie though, this thread makes me want to add 5-10mg/daily of Ment to my test/tren/mast/primo cycle for a few weeks just for the sex drive increase and mental boost. But I don’t want mini-nuts again as I have a decent amount of sexy time encounters scheduled over the next 2 weeks with a fairly new lady friend.
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