MENT solo in lieu of TRT

[narta]

s it recommended to pair with a DHT like with nandrolone?

 

[boophomet]

A lot of people pair NPP/Deca with Mast or Primo, myself included. It helps to balance out the mental and libido effects

 

[narta]

A lot of people pair NPP/Deca with Mast or Primo, myself included. It helps to balance out the mental and libido effects

Missed the with in there, thought you implied nandrolone is a DHT

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

When I push the Ment above 10/Ed is where I start to see issues with bloat and BP increase, due to water retention I'm sure.

Don’t be so sure. It seems to have a profound effect on the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system and you can get monster BP problems while having no other signs of water retention.

 

[bulkyblueberry]

If I had to use MENT, this is pretty much how I'd run it. Do you have a rationale to support your intimation that he has to "be careful" with this perfectly fine c

Supplementing MENT HRT with Testosterone and DHT negates the purpose of doing MENT HRT - to have a hormone that allows someone to maintain most androgen-dependent functions, with MENT's metabolites having huge health-promoting effects. Introducing another exogenous androgens, considering the MENT's AR affinities, seems rather odd. It's a rather interesting hormone, and very well might be the "perfect HRT" like I seen somewhere.

 

[Type-IIx]

Supplementing MENT HRT with Testosterone and DHT negates the purpose of doing MENT HRT - to have a hormone that allows someone to maintain most androgen-dependent functions, with MENT's metabolites having huge health-promoting effects. Introducing another exogenous androgens, considering the MENT's AR affinities, seems rather odd. It's a rather interesting hormone, and very well might be the "perfect HRT" like I seen somewhere.

MENT failed abysmally at maintaining androgen-dependent functions when trialled as a potential male contraceptive.

Sexual function effects
2 of 13 (15%) MENT subjects withdrew after 8 weeks of treatment due to low libido & erectile dysfunction...Adverse events included reduced libido & erectile function in 4 additional subjects in the MENT group who completed treatment (6/13, or 46%) [these adverse effects were not reported by any subject in the testosterone group]...Due to the incidence of reports of low libido and early withdrawal in the MENT group, it was decided in consultation with the study Data Monitoring and Safety Committee to shorten the MENT treatment period to 24 weeks whereas men in the testosterone group completed 48 weeks of treatment.

Walton, M. J., Kumar, N., Baird, D. T., Ludlow, H., & Anderson, R. A. (2007). 7 -Methyl-19-Nortestosterone (MENT) vs Testosterone in Combination With Etonogestrel Implants for Spermatogenic Suppression in Healthy Men. Journal of Andrology, 28(5), 679–688. doi:10.2164/jandrol.107.002683

 

[Type-IIx]

What is odd is this persistent cheerleading of MENT [1], a non-5α-reducible progestagenic androgen [2] that aromatizes to a highly potent 7α-methylestradiol [3] as a viable T alternative for supporting sexual function [4] despite all evidence to the contrary, borne out by its never being pursued to market through the clinical trials process, etc.

If you can grok the concepts described in the links herein, you might see why combination of testosterone (5α-reducible & aromatizable androst-4-ene-3-one) & a 5α-androstan-3-one (possessing antiestrogenic properties, see forthcoming Article regarding Primo & Crashed E2) with MENT is a rational cycle design.

 

[boophomet]

What is odd is this persistent cheerleading of MENT [1], a non-5α-reducible progestagenic androgen [2] that aromatizes to a highly potent 7α-methylestradiol [3] as a viable T alternative for supporting sexual function [4] despite all evidence to the contrary, borne out by its never being pursued to market through the clinical trials process, etc.

If you can grok the concepts described in the links herein, you might see why combination of testosterone (5α-reducible & aromatizable androst-4-ene-3-one) & a 5α-androstan-3-one (possessing antiestrogenic properties, see forthcoming Article regarding Primo & Crashed E2) with MENT is a rational cycle design.

Do you think the inclusion of a DHT when using testosterone as well is necessary, or just beneficial? I would think that adding trestolone to TRT that the testosterone should be providing enough DHT on it's own, unless using too much Trest and it converts into too much 7a-estrogen

 

[Country Club Hero]

What is odd is this persistent cheerleading of MENT [1], a non-5α-reducible progestagenic androgen [2] that aromatizes to a highly potent 7α-methylestradiol [3] as a viable T alternative for supporting sexual function [4] despite all evidence to the contrary, borne out by its never being pursued to market through the clinical trials process, etc.

If you can grok the concepts described in the links herein, you might see why combination of testosterone (5α-reducible & aromatizable androst-4-ene-3-one) & a 5α-androstan-3-one (possessing antiestrogenic properties, see forthcoming Article regarding Primo & Crashed E2) with MENT is a rational cycle design.

I think even you can appreciate that some people just do better with certain hormones than the literature would/should/does indicate. Tren for example makes me feel amazing and I’m actually pretty decent at sex on it. Other than insomnia and lethargy after about 10 weeks I feel amazing while on it.

I know we are talking about Ment in lieu of Testosterone for HRT. But my point remains. Some people just do better on certain compounds than the science indicates they should.

I think trying things like this, despite just reading studies of 30 or even 1,000 other participants in a trial, is sometimes a worthwhile experiment. Who knows? You may actually love how you feel and how your bloodwork looks on it.

 

[bulkyblueberry]

doi:10.2164/jandrol.107.002683

MENT failed abysmally at maintaining androgen-dependent functions when trialled as a potential male contraceptive.

Sexual function effects
2 of 13 (15%) MENT subjects withdrew after 8 weeks of treatment due to low libido & erectile dysfunction...Adverse events included reduced libido & erectile function in 4 additional subjects in the MENT group who completed treatment (6/13, or 46%) [these adverse effects were not reported by any subject in the testosterone group]...Due to the incidence of reports of low libido and early withdrawal in the MENT group, it was decided in consultation with the study Data Monitoring and Safety Committee to shorten the MENT treatment period to 24 weeks whereas men in the testosterone group completed 48 weeks of treatment.

Walton, M. J., Kumar, N., Baird, D. T., Ludlow, H., & Anderson, R. A. (2007). 7 -Methyl-19-Nortestosterone (MENT) vs Testosterone in Combination With Etonogestrel Implants for Spermatogenic Suppression in Healthy Men. Journal of Andrology, 28(5), 679–688. doi:10.2164/jandrol.107.002683

Abysmally? 2 out of 13 had no libido due to the design flaw, see the quote the same article. Other androgen-dependent functions

Thereafter, however, suppression in the MENT group was inconsistent and some subjects complained of reduced interest in sex. Serum MENT concentrations were similar to those previously reported using this implant formulation (Anderson et al, 2003), but determination of MENT in the implant after removal confirmed that the release rate was low. It therefore appears that a greater sustained release rate than achieved here is necessary for continuing spermatogenic suppression and support of sexual interest in healthy men.

 

[bulkyblueberry]

There were not many trials on humans unfortunately. This is a good overview of them if anyone is interested: 10.1016/j.contraception.2012.08.036

Fact is, we just don't have enough data to be calling HRT or cycles with MENT "rational".

I am very excited and hopeful about the future agents in development find the concept fantastic.

 

[Type-IIx]

Abysmally? 2 out of 13 had no libido due to the design flaw, see the quote the same article. Other androgen-dependent functions

Thereafter, however, suppression in the MENT group was inconsistent and some subjects complained of reduced interest in sex. Serum MENT concentrations were similar to those previously reported using this implant formulation (Anderson et al, 2003), but determination of MENT in the implant after removal confirmed that the release rate was low. It therefore appears that a greater sustained release rate than achieved here is necessary for continuing spermatogenic suppression and support of sexual interest in healthy men.

Your point is well taken with respect to implant failure - however - it cannot be said that a greater sustained release rate will support sexual function because that has not been borne out consistently by the MENT trials. I have seen a single small pilot study that showed higher dose MENT supporting sexual function.. I'd have to dig through Suvisaari's dissertation to find it, but suffice it to say, a fair reading of the data on MENT does not support its consistently supporting sexual function at any dose. Besides that, it's not a foregone conclusion that androgenicity is androgenicity is androgenicity sans 5α-reductase amplification.

Besides its very suppressive potency what about MENT makes it particularly well suited for male contraception or HRT?

 

[Type-IIx]

I think even you can appreciate that some people just do better with certain hormones than the literature would/should/does indicate. Tren for example makes me feel amazing and I’m actually pretty decent at sex on it. Other than insomnia and lethargy after about 10 weeks I feel amazing while on it.

I know we are talking about Ment in lieu of Testosterone for HRT. But my point remains. Some people just do better on certain compounds than the science indicates they should.

I think trying things like this, despite just reading studies of 30 or even 1,000 other participants in a trial, is sometimes a worthwhile experiment. Who knows? You may actually love how you feel and how your bloodwork looks on it.

I do but read what has been said here and you might recognize that you're not arguing against any point that I have made here or elsewhere. Rather, you seem to be attacking some strawman argument. Did you happen to interpret my reference to a study as "this study has to describe Country Club Hero and his handling Tren well falsifies that," or something?

No clue what your handling Tren has to do with fuck all mate?

 

[Type-IIx]

Do you think the inclusion of a DHT when using testosterone as well is necessary, or just beneficial? I would think that adding trestolone to TRT that the testosterone should be providing enough DHT on it's own, unless using too much Trest and it converts into too much 7a-estrogen

Beneficial at certain Test doses to modulate estrogens without using an AI/SERM, but not necessary.

 

[Country Club Hero]

I do but read what has been said here and you might recognize that you're not arguing against any point that I have made here or elsewhere. Rather, you seem to be attacking some strawman argument. Did you happen to interpret my reference to a study as "this study has to describe Country Club Hero and his handling Tren well falsifies that," or something?

No clue what your handling Tren has to do with fuck all mate?

well, I didn’t read every post so I may be off here. But I’m also using your sentiment in other compound threads and applying to this one….

No, just saying you seem to be against people using and enjoying compounds that you don’t think they should based some research and trials. Lol

Sure, on paper Ment doesn’t look like the most amazing thing for HRT. But you have never personally used it for that so you really don’t know. You just know what 33 guys of the 38 in the control group felt about it. Or some other arbitrary numbers. Which is great, I guess. But damn man. That’s boring ass living. Try some shit that may not make perfect sense on paper some time. It may blow your mind and change your life.

I believe there are a few men out there that would do better with MENT than with testosterone overall for HRT. But someone would never think that is even possible if someone just read your posts and based their decision on that.

Sometimes you just gotta scrap the science and go by feel in life. That’s where the real magic happens usually. It’s great to look at research and trials and stuff. But we are all so very different that you could be missing out on a compound that aligns with your mind, body and soul but you’ll never know because you were afraid to step out of the little science box you build around everything.

That is all. Good day, Type 2. Loosen up a little today. Maybe trade in the lab coat today for some swim trunks or something. And order some Ment and give it a try for yourself for HRT. Then your opinion on this topic could/would be incredibly valuable.

 

[narta]

In biology, individual response to drugs is a thing. Statistics on trials are... statistics. That's why some people love or hate the same drugs, because they don't work the same to all people due to individualism.

Hell, we don't even after decades of usage fully 100% understand the pathways testosterone works. We have some knowledge but not all the knowledge.

 

[Type-IIx]

well, I didn’t read every post so I may be off here. But I’m also using your sentiment in other compound threads and applying to this one….

No, just saying you seem to be against people using and enjoying compounds that you don’t think they should based some research and trials. Lol

Sure, on paper Ment doesn’t look like the most amazing thing for HRT. But you have never personally used it for that so you really don’t know. You just know what 33 guys of the 38 in the control group felt about it. Or some other arbitrary numbers. Which is great, I guess. But damn man. That’s boring ass living. Try some shit that may not make perfect sense on paper some time. It may blow your mind and change your life.

I believe there are a few men out there that would do better with MENT than with testosterone overall for HRT. But someone would never think that is even possible if someone just read your posts and based their decision on that.

Sometimes you just gotta scrap the science and go by feel in life. That’s where the real magic happens usually. It’s great to look at research and trials and stuff. But we are all so very different that you could be missing out on a compound that aligns with your mind, body and soul but you’ll never know because you were afraid to step out of the little science box you build around everything.

That is all. Good day, Type 2. Loosen up a little today. Maybe trade in the lab coat today for some swim trunks or something. And order some Ment and give it a try for yourself for HRT. Then your opinion on this topic could/would be incredibly valuable.

I wrote a MENT profile to help people use it. I have designed cycles using MENT. In this very thread, I argued for a particular MENT cycle in combination with Test and Primo/Mast.

Are you seriously not trolling with this?

 

[petefox]

I wrote a MENT profile to help people use it. I have designed cycles using MENT. In this very thread, I argued for a particular MENT cycle in combination with Test and Primo/Mast.

Are you seriously not trolling with this?

I'll have to check out your MENT profile. It's probably my favorite ports tech aside from straight Testosterone and Anavar.

 

[bulkyblueberry]

Your point is well taken with respect to implant failure - however - it cannot be said that a greater sustained release rate will support sexual function because that has not been borne out consistently by the MENT trials. I have seen a single small pilot study that showed higher dose MENT supporting sexual function.. I'd have to dig through Suvisaari's dissertation to find it, but suffice it to say, a fair reading of the data on MENT does not support its consistently supporting sexual function at any dose. Besides that, it's not a foregone conclusion that androgenicity is androgenicity is androgenicity sans 5α-reductase amplification.

Besides its very suppressive potency what about MENT makes it particularly well suited for male contraception or HRT?

Study designs are not great at all I can barely tolerate results of MENT studies done (i mean published studies) on macaques, horses, rats and I think they are round 10. But those young scientist doing the binding affinity tests in vitro etc are really the plight sometimes. Skew the picture and then STUDY PROVES MENT IS BETTER THAN NAMDROLONE!!!!

Your last question is very important. I don’t know if discuss here in the open or tell you privately, because I’ll get ostracized the moment I answer that last question haha (

 

[bulkyblueberry]

I wrote a MENT profile to help people use it. I have designed cycles using MENT. In this very thread, I argued for a particular MENT cycle in combination with Test and Primo/Mast.

Are you seriously not trolling with this?

holy fuck you’re THE Type-IIx???

Sure I read your articles, I also read the references, and it’s references and quotation, and the latest German study with MENT from 2023, yes it’s not a perfect, but it’s at least something that androgenic enough (or not but human sturdies weren’t great and rats I’m afraid of) to sustain most (at least based on 10 humans, gosh it’s so low the number of Probanden or at least at least the majority of both andro and estro functions)y

I will try to find the dissertation you mentionedx danke.