RodgerThat
New Member
Welcome welcome welcome! So does that make your bench squat and deadlift even now then?
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- Thread starter jaymaximus
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Welcome welcome welcome! So does that make your bench squat and deadlift even now then?
jaymaximus
Pro
Almost. Squat is 410. DL 405. Bench 375. Usually I advance a lot faster in bench, but my elbows been janked up the last week+, so im taking it easy on all my pushes for a little while.
Strength and Power
Member
Congrats man. If you hit 4, then you can hit 5. Keep up the hard work brother.
jaymaximus
Pro
You know how it goes. I spent 5 minutes happy, then started thinking about the next PR.No weight lifted is ever enough!
Strength and Power
Member
Damn right. Thats the nature of our sport. It will never be heavy enough.
jaymaximus
Pro
Also I complained and complained and complained...walked in the gym and we finally got a power rack. First and only one.
I know there were a lot of exercises I was missing out on, Im looking for some help figuring out what to do. Especially towards improving DL.
I know there were a lot of exercises I was missing out on, Im looking for some help figuring out what to do. Especially towards improving DL.
@jaymaximus
CONGRATS!!
For deadlifts
Good mornings, stiff leg DL, block pulls, deficit DL, rack pulls
CONGRATS!!
For deadlifts
Good mornings, stiff leg DL, block pulls, deficit DL, rack pulls
jaymaximus
Pro
Thanks (I'll have to google the pulls), but you got me on the path.
Edit: Is it weird Im so excited about a power rack? I feel like a kid on xmas morning.
Now my question. Rack pulls seem to be very similar to DLs. Just starting higher depending on where you have the safety bars. So A) does it matter where I start the pull and B) are these considered an accessory or can I switch them out weeks as a main exercise?
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Rack pulls generally don't help much, because most people can lift a lot more weight that way.
Conventional DLers who have trouble locking out sometimes get something out of them. If that's you, lift from just below where your full length pull starts to stall out. Very short range pull and hold for time could also be effective grip training, if your hands give out early.
Conventional DLers who have trouble locking out sometimes get something out of them. If that's you, lift from just below where your full length pull starts to stall out. Very short range pull and hold for time could also be effective grip training, if your hands give out early.
Hardtokill
New Member
I will switch them in for my deadlift during certain training weeks. I will set mine about mid shin to get rep work in the 80-90% range. I will set them above the knee and use in the 120% range of my max to work on lock out and grip strength. I also use double overhand grip for this work. You have a lot of options depending on where you want to work the movement. Im pretty good off the floor so using the various rack pull set ups has really helped me add to my Dead.
jaymaximus
Pro
Usually I fail right below the knees when I do. I read an article on T-nation saying that you should consider your sticking point a little below where you fail because usually momentum carries you a little higher.
So I guess that would be about mid shin for me.
So I guess that would be about mid shin for me.
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Perrin Aybara
Master
I agree with this 100%. I never got anything out of rack pulls. A block pull mimics a real deadlift more in my opinion.
A double paused deadlift is another possibility. You pull from the floor, but you pause around mid shin and then complete the pull. I've never used them enough to comment on their effectiveness though.
jaymaximus
Pro
My gym has no blocks
This might seem dumb, but whats the difference between a rack and a block pull? If you set the rack low enough the distance is the same. Is it just that in block pulls the weights are in contact with the block?
Perrin Aybara
Master
My gym has no blocks
This might seem dumb, but whats the difference between a rack and a block pull? If you set the rack low enough the distance is the same. Is it just that in block pulls the weights are in contact with the block?
Yeah, it's more like a real dead. On a rack pull the bar is in contact with the safeties and it changes the physics of it. You'll feel the difference, especially with heavy weight. It doesn't move quite the same.
You can use bumper plates for blocks, I've used plastic step aerobics blocks. Whatever you can set up that's stable.
To take the concept a step farther, deadlift is unique (and sucks) in that there really isn't such a thing as universally effective assistance work. Especially when you have to train squat at the same time.
This is a fundamental reason that Westside is what it is, why it's evolved over time, the old 'No deadlift' concept, etc. More benefit will be had from experimenting with form and finding what set and rep scheme work for you over long macrocycles than anything else. No shortcuts for dead, unfortunately.
Perrin Aybara
Master
For sure. I come off as anti-rack pull and anti-deadlIft assistance, but keeping it simple has been where it's at for me. If the stuff works for you, that's great, keep at it, but don't do it just to do it. If it doesn't prove effective, move on.
For me, what I keep coming back to is twice a week pulling. One day higher reps than what most like, 6-10 for a few sets. The other day lower, 2-5 for a few sets. Occasional AMRAP sets on the heavy day. No assistance whatsoever, just conventional pulls or sumo pulls or a combination of the two. Although I have had success with deficit deadlifts on the light day in the past. I've got my training logged for over two years now and it's always something like I described when my progress is the best. Not that I'm the next Ed Coan or anything, but I'd be shocked if I didn't pull 600 at my meet next Saturday.
RodgerThat
New Member
@jaymaximus here something for you to try if your looking for deadlift assistance things. On a side note I think rack pulls can give a huge benefit because your body gets used to holding heavier loads and it will make your back thicker and stronger if you can hold a tight scapula positioning throughout the movement.
I incorporate rack pulls every second week but it is defiantly not a replacement exercise I treat it as a overload training piece after I've done my deadlift working weight
I incorporate rack pulls every second week but it is defiantly not a replacement exercise I treat it as a overload training piece after I've done my deadlift working weight
Perrin Aybara
Master
I'll admit rack pulls are good for back and lat development.
What it boils down to is that you'll just have to figure out what works for you. Stick with something long enough to tell if it works, make little tweaks and changes here and there and log your training and see what happens. It's going to take some time, of course. From what I've read here it seems all the bigger pullers go about their training in vastly different ways anyway. Find stuff you like, tweak it to suit your needs and make it your own.
Edit: congrats @jaymaximus on the four plate pull! Five minutes is about all you can really hope for before you convince yourself it's really not that heavy and the next plate milestone is what you really need. At least it keeps us motivated.
What it boils down to is that you'll just have to figure out what works for you. Stick with something long enough to tell if it works, make little tweaks and changes here and there and log your training and see what happens. It's going to take some time, of course. From what I've read here it seems all the bigger pullers go about their training in vastly different ways anyway. Find stuff you like, tweak it to suit your needs and make it your own.
Edit: congrats @jaymaximus on the four plate pull! Five minutes is about all you can really hope for before you convince yourself it's really not that heavy and the next plate milestone is what you really need. At least it keeps us motivated.
RodgerThat
New Member
This is it right there what worked for me to break through doesn't mean it will work for you, is it worth a shot if your looking for something? I think so because it worked for me. But I'm not pulling 600 and the man that advocates just deadlift more (I'm with you on that too Perrin I like two times a week but not a fan of those cardio rep ranges
) is someone id listen to as well. Rack pulls are a fundamental for power building and it's great for muscular development in your back but it defiantly doesn't 100% translate to a stronger deadlift. Pull more, pull often, pull with intensity and squat furiously and your deadlift will grow.
Perrin Aybara
Master
This is it right there what worked for me to break through doesn't mean it will work for you, is it worth a shot if your looking for something? I think so because it worked for me. But I'm not pulling 600 and the man that advocates just deadlift more (I'm with you on that too Perrin I like two times a week but not a fan of those cardio rep ranges
You're not a fan of the cardio rep ranges? Hell, I'm not even a fan of them. I see flashing lights after some of those high weight, high rep sets. When I'm doing them my deadlift is going up though. Can't explain it exactly, but it works for me.
And yes, it's always worth a shot to try things out. I said that a few posts up. Try it and see how it goes. Keep it if it does. Scrap it if it doesn't. Never do things just to do them.
Also, I can see a possibility of me having to incorporate assistance in the future. I like to think I'll have more options and better chances of breaking plateaus later having kept things simple thus far. You know what I mean?
