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[dmt31]

I agree that a single dose would give a higher reading at peak. The testing protocol was set up so people don't have to alter their cycle just to test. The less we put people out, the more people will participate.

^^Exactly.

Yes, but you can't have it both ways right?

We of course want people to get tested, but if someone is splitting up say 500mg a week into 250mg e3.5 days, then we can't reasonably expect their numbers to give an accurate reading for the dosing of the testosterone if we're looking at it as a test to read the strength of a 500mg a week cycle. That has to be kept in mind, because it's just not realistic to think this way, and it causes a lot of issues for meso members who are not as versed in how they're body is processing the hormone.

 

[dmt31]

Yup, the hormonal imbalance throughout the week would drive me nuts I think. TRT I'm sure it's fine with, but the level changes at higher doses would fuck with me for sure. Although it might be something I try considering how this little experiment turns out

Even on TRT on day 6 and day 7 before my injection i literally was a zombie bro. you have no idea how shitty it feels to go from having 1200 TT to 300 TT in a couple of days lol... It was miserable thats why I switched my dosing protocol.

 

[Marcus]

Even on TRT on day 6 and day 7 before my injection i literally was a zombie bro. you have no idea how shitty it feels to go from having 1200 TT to 300 TT in a couple of days lol... It was miserable thats why I switched my dosing protocol.

Then this is a perfect reason for us to run this experiment to fins standard to hold these labs and our gear to... Imagine how one would feel on a significantly higher dose once per week. Maybe it's best to find the standard for the split twice weekly dose and not look for the highest number. That's why this all came up, because bloods were not in line. So we are trying to find what is in line with split doses rather than once per week dose

 

[Colt44]

Yes, but you can't have it both ways right?

We of course want people to get tested, but if someone is splitting up say 500mg a week into 250mg e3.5 days, then we can't reasonably expect their numbers to give an accurate reading for the dosing of the testosterone if we're looking at it as a test to read the strength of a 500mg a week cycle. That has to be kept in mind, because it's just not realistic to think this way, and it causes a lot of issues for meso members who are not as versed in how they're body is processing the hormone.

The whole testing protocol is to establish acceptable numbers at 2x weekly injections. If we get enough blood work and compounds tested by way of MS/HPLC those numbers can and will be established.

You should run the protocol you are speaking of. See if you can enlist a couple more guys to do so also. More data the better.

 

[Cole]

I truly believe some bros just have it in there mind they don't need to have blood test's. I can feel it working I this or I that.
Some people are just poorly educated on the matter.
This little hole in the wall part of the world I live in dudes don't have a fucking clue when it comes to getting blood work.
To much bro science/young pups that have no business running gear period!
We as a group just need to stay diligent with blood test's and other testing methods!

 

[Big Mike]

I agree that a single dose would give a higher reading at peak. The testing protocol was set up so people don't have to alter their cycle just to test. The less we put people out, the more people will participate.

^^Exactly.

I plan to run my next cycle early December and Ill pin both compounds all on the same day and get bloods following the protocol. @Boilermech is doing this right now, If I remember correctly.


Big Mike

 

[Colt44]

I plan to run my next cycle early December and Ill pin both compounds all on the same day and get bloods following the protocol. @Boilermech is doing this right now, If I remember correctly.


Big Mike

You mean you'll pin your weekly dose in one pin?

 

[Kinikuman]

The whole testing protocol is to establish acceptable numbers at 2x weekly injections. If we get enough blood work and compounds tested by way of MS/HPLC those numbers can and will be established.

You should run the protocol you are speaking of. See if you can enlist a couple more guys to do so also. More data the better.

The MS/HPLC is much stronger evidence of the quality of gear versus bloods due to all the variations between individuals metabolism, etc. IMO. Bloods give evidence that your gear is good or bad, while the MS/HPLC proves it. It's too bad we can't find some gearhead Masters student doing research at a university somewhere to run a bunch of samples for his thesis (and Meso).

 

[dmt31]

The whole testing protocol is to establish acceptable numbers at 2x weekly injections. If we get enough blood work and compounds tested by way of MS/HPLC those numbers can and will be established.

You should run the protocol you are speaking of. See if you can enlist a couple more guys to do so also. More data the better.

I am running 750 a week, 375mg e3.5d, I'm planning to get bloods done in about 3 or so weeks, I am using gear from a different UGL, but I have no problem adjusting my dosing to just taking the whole 750 once a week until then and getting my blood work done that way.

I was more bringing all of this up because having a reliable and efficient way to get MS/HPLC done on a regular basis, without a ton of lag time, seems like a unicorn at this point. So all we have to go off of our the members getting blood tests done. If that is the case, then we need to better understand how splitting the dose up is going to effect TT numbers before we start attacking one of the only 2 decent sources on this board (and that's if you consider Astro a decent source, which I personally do not). I am not blaming @Marcus at all, and I understand his frustration and this not directed at him at all in any way, i just wanted to be clear on that. He has actually handled his frustration way better than most here would have from what I have been reading.

I just think we need to have more information before we all jump to conclusions is all. Most of the people here seem to think that if you're injecting 500mg a week, 250 e3.5d any TT level lower than 4000 is "underdosed gear", which is just patently not true and a ridiculous assertion that's not grounded in any sort of reality. Are there UGL's with underdosed gear? Yes. Could MS gear be underdosed? Yes. But, we have yet to actually have any proper evidence to prove that, again just my opinion in an attempt to help the community out.

 

[Marcus]

I am running 750 a week, 375mg e3.5d, I'm planning to get bloods done in about 3 or so weeks, I am using gear from a different UGL, but I have no problem adjusting my dosing to just taking the whole 750 once a week until then and getting my blood work done that way.

I was more bringing all of this up because having a reliable and efficient way to get MS/HPLC done on a regular basis, without a ton of lag time, seems like a unicorn at this point. So all we have to go off of our the members getting blood tests done. If that is the case, then we need to better understand how splitting the dose up is going to effect TT numbers before we start attacking one of the only 2 decent sources on this board (and that's if you consider Astro a decent source, which I personally do not). I am not blaming @Marcus at all, and I understand his frustration and this not directed at him at all in any way, i just wanted to be clear on that. He has actually handled his frustration way better than most here would have from what I have been reading.

I just think we need to have more information before we all jump to conclusions is all. Most of the people here seem to think that if you're injecting 500mg a week, 250 e3.5d any TT level lower than 4000 is "underdosed gear", which is just patently not true and a ridiculous assertion that's not grounded in any sort of reality. Are there UGL's with underdosed gear? Yes. Could MS gear be underdosed? Yes. But, we have yet to actually have any proper evidence to prove that, again just my opinion in an attempt to help the community out.

Again, that's why were doin this experiment. I think everyone here is taking this very well. But I will tell you this, @johnnyBALLZ got near 10X his dose on quality gear with a split dosage protocol so before anything more. Let's get a mass spec/HPLC done. Which people are working on from what I hear

 

[dmt31]

Again, that's why were doin this experiment. I think everyone here is taking this very well. But I will tell you this, @johnnyBALLZ got near 10X his dose on quality gear with a split dosage protocol so before anything more. Let's get a mass spec/HPLC done. Which people are working on from what I hear

That's fair brother

 

[Big Mike]

You mean you'll pin your weekly dose in one pin?

Yes sir.

 

[Boilermech]

@dmt31 My current cycle is 600mg a week of test E StrongGear. I pin the whole 600mg in one pin on Sunday afternoon. When I get bloods it should reflect more precise numbers. Bloodwork will be drawn at 24hrs, 48hrs, and 72hrs after last pin.
I have ran several cycles in the past with just once a week pins with no problems whatsoever so this is not a big deal for me.

 

[Kinikuman]

TT : 7500 . e2 80

Those look like very respectable numbers. I think we have seen much worse around.

 

[lightspan]

I am running 750 a week, 375mg e3.5d, I'm planning to get bloods done in about 3 or so weeks, I am using gear from a different UGL, but I have no problem adjusting my dosing to just taking the whole 750 once a week until then and getting my blood work done that way.

I was more bringing all of this up because having a reliable and efficient way to get MS/HPLC done on a regular basis, without a ton of lag time, seems like a unicorn at this point. So all we have to go off of our the members getting blood tests done. If that is the case, then we need to better understand how splitting the dose up is going to effect TT numbers before we start attacking one of the only 2 decent sources on this board (and that's if you consider Astro a decent source, which I personally do not). I am not blaming @Marcus at all, and I understand his frustration and this not directed at him at all in any way, i just wanted to be clear on that. He has actually handled his frustration way better than most here would have from what I have been reading.

I just think we need to have more information before we all jump to conclusions is all. Most of the people here seem to think that if you're injecting 500mg a week, 250 e3.5d any TT level lower than 4000 is "underdosed gear", which is just patently not true and a ridiculous assertion that's not grounded in any sort of reality. Are there UGL's with underdosed gear? Yes. Could MS gear be underdosed? Yes. But, we have yet to actually have any proper evidence to prove that, again just my opinion in an attempt to help the community out.

There's a reason we wait until 5-6 weeks in with enanthate or cypionate esters. Serum level buIlds up over 4 weeks then levels off. The biweekly protocol will result in lower, but not substantially lower, serum numbers. The ester half life is longer than the dosing interval (e3.5d) resulting in a steadily increasing serum level until 5 weeks of so. Google "testosterone pharmacokinetics" and you'll get half a dozen papers which describe this, and illustrate it with plots. I agree for "perfect" testing a single dose, with blood drawn 24-48 hr afterward, is ideal. However, if you've been running a long ester for 5 weeks, you already have a substantial serum concentration built up, and a single pin of the full week's dosage on top of that will give a skewed number as well. Food for thought.

Colt's protocol makes sense and should give a good picture of whether the gear is severly underdosed. I could live with 3500 on 500 mg/wk in split doses. Anything below 3k is questionable. My last bloods were at 60 hours, on 250 mg e3d (Titan labs), after 5 weeks, and came in around 2k. Clearly underdosed.

 

[Colt44]

I am running 750 a week, 375mg e3.5d, I'm planning to get bloods done in about 3 or so weeks, I am using gear from a different UGL, but I have no problem adjusting my dosing to just taking the whole 750 once a week until then and getting my blood work done that way.

I was more bringing all of this up because having a reliable and efficient way to get MS/HPLC done on a regular basis, without a ton of lag time, seems like a unicorn at this point. So all we have to go off of our the members getting blood tests done. If that is the case, then we need to better understand how splitting the dose up is going to effect TT numbers before we start attacking one of the only 2 decent sources on this board (and that's if you consider Astro a decent source, which I personally do not). I am not blaming @Marcus at all, and I understand his frustration and this not directed at him at all in any way, i just wanted to be clear on that. He has actually handled his frustration way better than most here would have from what I have been reading.

I just think we need to have more information before we all jump to conclusions is all. Most of the people here seem to think that if you're injecting 500mg a week, 250 e3.5d any TT level lower than 4000 is "underdosed gear", which is just patently not true and a ridiculous assertion that's not grounded in any sort of reality. Are there UGL's with underdosed gear? Yes. Could MS gear be underdosed? Yes. But, we have yet to actually have any proper evidence to prove that, again just my opinion in an attempt to help the community out.

One of the reasons I started the protocol thread was so we could all better understand where our TT numbers should be on a particular dose. We can figure this out with enough data through blood work and MS/HPLC

I've said it many times, more data is needed. I haven't once said that 3500 isn't an acceptable number on 500mg/wk. We will find out though.

Bloods in the low 2000 on 600mg/wk is shit though. If you and others don't believe that, you're just naive.

 

[Kinikuman]

sources should have to submit monthly or quarterly tests of their products as well as them and us doing labmax as well as a handful of volunteers submitting bloodtests for a source to remain in good name and stay in check. By us doing our part on labmaxing and bloods will keep the sources honest and testing because we will know if they submitted a shit test for that month by the outcomes of our results

I also think having some sort of Quality Assurance protocol that suppliers must adhere to in order to source here would be fabulous thing.

Can we add a QA clause to our current SCOC that members will agree to?

It won't completely eliminate the scammers, but it will provide an additional layer of protection for members here. At the very least it will keep those with knowingly underdosed / counterfeit gear from ever attempting to land here.

 

[Masters Power]

Colt and Lightspan, is there a consensus on how long after a pin of Test P blood should be drawn?

 

[dmt31]

One of the reasons I started the protocol thread was so we could all better understand where our TT numbers should be on a particular dose. We can figure this out with enough data through blood work and MS/HPLC

I've said it many times, more data is needed. I haven't once said that 3500 isn't an acceptable number on 500mg/wk. We will find out though.

Bloods in the low 2000 on 600mg/wk is shit though. If you and others don't believe that, you're just naive.

I'm not disputing that and I think we're finally at a point where we are having a constructive conversation and not just slinging mud, which I appreciate. And I agree with what you're saying here.

 

[dmt31]

@dmt31 My current cycle is 600mg a week of test E StrongGear. I pin the whole 600mg in one pin on Sunday afternoon. When I get bloods it should reflect more precise numbers. Bloodwork will be drawn at 24hrs, 48hrs, and 72hrs after last pin.
I have ran several cycles in the past with just once a week pins with no problems whatsoever so this is not a big deal for me.

That's good brother. Now we can hopefully better know if the test is underdosed or if marcus' just got a bad vial or something else went wrong