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[Abuckeye]

What other variables do you guys know of that would skew the TT value??
Say if a man was on cycle for an unusual amount of time say 6 months or longer, would his TT be affected by his time on?
Just curious to hear what the long time bloodworkers think!!!

 

[Colt44]

I also think having some sort of Quality Assurance protocol that suppliers must adhere to in order to source here would be fabulous thing.

Can we add a QA clause to our current SCOC that members will agree to?

It won't completely eliminate the scammers, but it will provide an additional layer of protection for members here. At the very least it will keep those with knowingly underdosed / counterfeit gear from ever attempting to land here.

How do you propose we enforce such a clause. The source "should" be testing their own gear to ensure it is properly dosed before sending it out. As we have seen before though, the source could just fake those test results.

It will always fall on the end users to hold the source accountable by testing what they receive.

I wouldn't mind seeing testing by a source though. As someone mentioned in this thread earlier, sources use the cop out of the tests not being accepted by the members, so they don't do it. THEY SHOULD BE DOING IT ANYWAY! Whether we believe it or not doesn't matter. If the source posts purity results that don't fall in line with our testing then we know they are full of shit.

So it wouldn't really prevent sources from sending and you receiving under dosed gear but it would prove they were dishonest in their conducting of QA/QC procedures.

 

[dmt31]

What other variables do you guys know of that would skew the TT value??
Say if a man was on cycle for an unusual amount of time say 6 months or longer, would his TT be affected by his time on?
Just curious to hear what the long time bloodworkers think!!!

The biggest thing I can think of is body fat/mass of the person. That can effect values a great deal

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

That's good brother. Now we can hopefully better know if the test is underdosed or if marcus' just got a bad vial or something else went wrong

All due respect, if you say "bad vial" one more time I'm going to fucking lose it..

There is no such thing as a "bad vial".. Bad batches? Yes and those typically consist of thousands of vials for a source as large as MikeStrong..

 

[Kinikuman]

How do you propose we enforce such a clause. The source "should" be testing their own gear to ensure it is properly dosed before sending it out. As we have seen before though, the source could just fake those test results.

It will always fall on the end users to hold the source accountable by testing what they receive.

I wouldn't mind seeing testing by a source though. As someone mentioned in this thread earlier, sources use the cop out of the tests not being accepted by the members, so they don't do it. THEY SHOULD BE DOING IT ANYWAY! Whether we believe it or not doesn't matter. If the source posts purity results that don't fall in line with our testing then we know they are full of shit.

So it wouldn't really prevent sources from sending and you receiving under dosed gear but it would prove they were dishonest in their conducting of QA/QC procedures.

The ideal would be to have some third party testing source that would take samples but only release results to some WKM that volunteers to be "Watchman". This would keep test results from being visually altered. The real key is the testing source.

 

[Colt44]

The ideal would be to have some third party testing source that would take samples but only release results to some WKM that volunteers to be "Watchman". This would keep test results from being visually altered. The real key is the testing source.

The key is always the testing source.

 

[Masters Power]

Colt and Lightspan, is there a consensus on how long after a pin of Test P blood should be drawn?

Sorry Colt- I don't know why I thought the testing protocol you posted was for long esters only. I just read it and found my answer.

 

[Colt44]

Sorry Colt- I don't know why I thought the testing protocol you posted was for long esters only. I just read it and found my answer.

I was letting you get there on your own.

 

[dmt31]

All due respect, if you say "bad vial" one more time I'm going to fucking lose it..

There is no such thing as a "bad vial".. Bad batches? Yes and those typically consist of thousands of vials for a source as large as MikeStrong..

Sorry if i upset you, just trying to be a little objective here, but whatever, I'll rephrase it if you like, but that's not the issue. Figuring out what happened is

 

[Marcus]

All due respect, if you say "bad vial" one more time I'm going to fucking lose it..

There is no such thing as a "bad vial".. Bad batches? Yes and those typically consist of thousands of vials for a source as large as MikeStrong..

Don't fully understand the concept of 1 bad vial or if/how that's possible...

 

[dmt31]

Don't fully understand the concept of 1 bad vial or if/how that's possible...

@johnnyBALLZ I have in the past had this situation. I bought 5 vials from a source, same batch, one came out to be severely underdosed, which was probably primarily caused by a large amount of the cutting agent being clumped together accidently. It's not common, but it does happen. Brewers and/raw suppliers cut there product just like any other illegal powder supplier does

 

[bickel29]

Again, that's why were doin this experiment. I think everyone here is taking this very well. But I will tell you this, @johnnyBALLZ got near 10X his dose on quality gear with a split dosage protocol so before anything more. Let's get a mass spec/HPLC done. Which people are working on from what I hear

Something to keep in mind though - how do we know JB's gear was dosed properly? How do we know it wasn't OVERdosed causing a higher than normal reading?

The source he was running (Bio) ended up flaming out big time! So to draw conclusions off of their gear is risky. Stretch (the dude running it) was VERY slick, so it is not unreasonable to think that he may have OVERdosed gear he was sending to Meso members, knowing they would review it here publicly.

Just a thought.

 

[Abuckeye]

The biggest thing I can think of is body fat/mass of the person. That can effect values a great deal

I would imagine that would affect the value invariably. I just wonder how much of a difference that it can make??
God there's so many questions that need to be answered with proper studies. I applaud the interest in getting the different values for pinning frequencies. We need to have more of the these questions answered and I'm up to being a part of it!!!
Keep up the constant think tank guys!!!

 

[Masters Power]

DMT- My guess is the cause of the severely underdosed vial you are talking about was intentional rather than the "cutting agent clumping together accidently"

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

Something to keep in mind though - how do we know JB's gear was dosed properly? How do we know it wasn't OVERdosed causing a higher than normal reading?

The source he was running (Bio) ended up flaming out big time! So to draw conclusions off of their gear is risky. Stretch (the dude running it) was VERY slick, so it is not unreasonable to think that he may have OVERdosed gear he was sending to Meso members.

Just a thought.

As I mentioned last time this was brought up it's also been the case for me with 2 private labs and MFL prop believe it or not..

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

As I mentioned last time this was brought up it's also been the case for me with 2 private labs and MFL prop believe it or not..

Dr. Scally has also seen first hand the 10x estimate in thousands of his patients..

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

@johnnyBALLZ I have in the past had this situation. I bought 5 vials from a source, same batch, one came out to be severely underdosed, which was probably primarily caused by a large amount of the cutting agent being clumped together accidently. It's not common, but it does happen. Brewers and/raw suppliers cut there product just like any other illegal powder supplier does

How do you know they were from the same batch?? Because the lot # said so?

I don't know what the hell your trying to describe happened to your vial but this is bullshit and you need to stop trying to convince people Marcus had a "bad vial"..

Brewers (some) and raw suppliers (most) do cut their shit but the whole batch is cut NOT 1 vial..

 

[Ozzy619]

All due respect, if you say "bad vial" one more time I'm going to fucking lose it..

There is no such thing as a "bad vial".. Bad batches? Yes and those typically consist of thousands of vials for a source as large as MikeStrong..

Damn and this whole time I thought sources brewed one vial at a time, like single barrel jack

 

[Colt44]

How do you know they were from the same batch?? Because the lot # said so?

I don't know what the hell your trying to describe happened to your vial but this is bullshit and you need to stop trying to convince people Marcus had a "bad vial"..

Brewers (some) and raw suppliers (most) do cut their shit but the whole batch is cut NOT 1 vial..

Yeah...and change that stupid fucking AVI

 

[bambam333]

How do you propose we enforce such a clause. The source "should" be testing their own gear to ensure it is properly dosed before sending it out. As we have seen before though, the source could just fake those test results.

It will always fall on the end users to hold the source accountable by testing what they receive.

I wouldn't mind seeing testing by a source though. As someone mentioned in this thread earlier, sources use the cop out of the tests not being accepted by the members, so they don't do it. THEY SHOULD BE DOING IT ANYWAY! Whether we believe it or not doesn't matter. If the source posts purity results that don't fall in line with our testing then we know they are full of shit.

So it wouldn't really prevent sources from sending and you receiving under dosed gear but it would prove they were dishonest in their conducting of QA/QC procedures.

The best we can do is have source do their testing and if our tests come out similar and if they dont and the source tried putting some bullshit test up they should be bumped off permanently so it checked both sides and hopefully that would scare some sources out of not playin games