MK-677

[Rosconow]

Without a base line IGF score taken prior to the start of MK you'll just be guessing at the range of increase you've experienced from the MK. Although, you can always check the charts and get an idea of about what you should be at naturally and compare that to your tested score.

In a nut shell: Z scores reflect the number of standard deviations a given result is above or below the age-adjusted mean, are reported along with the IGF-1 concentration.

Layman's terms- It's just a way of measuring if your levels are "normal" compared to the average for your age.

Z score is sort of irrelevant when you're dealing with guys running exogenous GH and artificially pushing up IGF numbers. Now when you're off GH and want to see if you've returned to what should be "normal" for your age then it's useful.

Thanks for the reply.

I don't plan on getting any bloods done specifically for gh/ igf, unless i can convince my trt doc to do so. I get bloods done every 6 months now that my trt is relatively dialed in.

I know the mk I'm taking is real, as mild CP, hunger (that has now subsided), some water retention, and awesome pumps are all a result.

 

[Jaxino]

Without a base line IGF score taken prior to the start of MK you'll just be guessing at the range of increase you've experienced from the MK. Although, you can always check the charts and get an idea of about what you should be at naturally and compare that to your tested score.

In a nut shell: Z scores reflect the number of standard deviations a given result is above or below the age-adjusted mean, are reported along with the IGF-1 concentration.

Layman's terms- It's just a way of measuring if your levels are "normal" compared to the average for your age.

Z score is sort of irrelevant when you're dealing with guys running exogenous GH and artificially pushing up IGF numbers. Now when you're off GH and want to see if you've returned to what should be "normal" for your age then it's useful.

Mate I eat 5 meals a day:
-4 carbs prots (I shot 1iu HGH Norditropin + 1iu/20g carbs Apidra)
-last meal is just prots and healthy fats, salmon avocado, mixed nuts (cashew almonds walnuts etc).

Do you think that 20mg MK677 + 500mg Metformine before bed will improve my IGF and also my recovery?

Bulking ATM.

 

[fodsod]

Mate I eat 5 meals a day:
-4 carbs prots (I shot 1iu HGH Norditropin + 1iu/20g carbs Apidra)
-last meal is just prots and healthy fats, salmon avocado, mixed nuts (cashew almonds walnuts etc).

Do you think that 20mg MK677 + 500mg Metformine before bed will improve my IGF and also my recovery?

Bulking ATM.

20mgs of MK should increase your IGF unless you have a pre-existing issue with your liver that would skew the GH to IGF conversion.

Personally, I’d only use MK during a bulking phase as it’s side effects aren’t really a negative since bigger and fuller with some water retention is fine.

The Metformin typically needs to be in the 1000+ mgs daily to see the optimal results of its use for blood glucose disposal and other benefits but your listed details seem to be on the lower end of the spectrum from a dosing standpoint so perhaps it’s just enough to balance out the program.

I’ve not seen any specific data speaking extensively about Metformin’s direct contribution at any dose to IGF levels so I’d say you’d need blood work pre and post use (focused just on Metformin) to track its actual effects for you.

Obviously it’ll help extend your time on GH since it’ll contribute to keeping your insulin sensitivity in a healthy range.

 

[Jaxino]

@fodsod maybe instead of Metformin I can use Berberine HCL... Usually I rotate them during the week. MWF Metformine other days Berberine.

I was even thinking to use sometbiso like that:
Day1 Metformine
Day2 Berberine
Day3 Melanotan II (works as GDA)
Repeat

 

[fodsod]

@fodsod maybe instead of Metformin I can use Berberine HCL... Usually I rotate them during the week. MWF Metformine other days Berberine.

I was even thinking to use sometbiso like that:
Day1 Metformine
Day2 Berberine
Day3 Melanotan II (works as GDA)
Repeat

I’m a big fan of Bernerine myself. I typically choose it over Metformin because it doesn’t carry any of the negatives associated with Metformin.

There is some research out there claiming Berb. isn’t absorbed optimally without Milk Thistle added. I’ve tried it with and without adding Milk Thistle and I honestly didn’t see a notable difference in blood sugar levels either way.

I’m not up on the literature for Melan. 2 being a GDA so if you’ve got the research then use it.

As previously stated, I’m just not aware of any studies or users personal blood work showing any of those substances direct contribution to a measurable increase in IGF levels.

 

[Jaxino]

The melanocortin agonist melanotan II increases insulin sensitivity in OLETF rats. - PubMed - NCBI

This should be the reseatre about Melanotan II

 

[AlwaysHungry]

There is any point run a protocol like this ?
Day 1 15iu
Day 2 50mg mk
And so on one day 15 iu hgh the other day 50mg mk

 

[Jaxino]

There is any point run a protocol like this ?
Day 1 15iu
Day 2 50mg mk
And so on one day 15 iu hgh the other day 50mg mk

It's nonsense you are spiking igf1 so much that your body won't respond..... People usually do that:
15iu HGH EOD + Lantus + Humalog High carbs medium prots almost no fats.
0iu HGH no insulin EOD low carbs medium prots high fats (calories under maintenance)

This way you keep your body insulin sensitive but..... Let's be real... If you are at 240 lbs 6% this will help you growing even more... But until the 240lbs, 4iu HGH ED pharma grade and 4iu Humalog or HumalinR will be more than enough.
I.e. 1iu HGH+1iu insulin every meal or 2iu HGH + 2iu Insulin first thing am and the same postwo.


MK IMHO is good for better sleep and raise hunger during bulk.... Almost everyone I know has issues eating lots of CLEAN CALORIES. It's too easy to bulk on pizza and burgers..... But enjoy being a bloated fat mess

For example I am bulking now, started at 3550 cals at 103kg 6" 8-9% bf gaining 1kg every 3w it's almost nothing, but I know that I will need to throw down 4k cals soon an this will start being an issue... Trust me being consistant itsi the hard part in bb, and of diet goes to shit everything else got screwed up.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

It's nonsense you are spiking igf1 so much that your body won't respond..... People usually do that:
15iu HGH EOD + Lantus + Humalog High carbs medium prots almost no fats.
0iu HGH no insulin EOD low carbs medium prots high fats (calories under maintenance)

This way you keep your body insulin sensitive but..... Let's be real... If you are at 240 lbs 6% this will help you growing even more... But until the 240lbs, 4iu HGH ED pharma grade and 4iu Humalog or HumalinR will be more than enough.
I.e. 1iu HGH+1iu insulin every meal or 2iu HGH + 2iu Insulin first thing am and the same postwo.


MK IMHO is good for better sleep and raise hunger during bulk.... Almost everyone I know has issues eating lots of CLEAN CALORIES. It's too easy to bulk on pizza and burgers..... But enjoy being a bloated fat mess

For example I am bulking now, started at 3550 cals at 103kg 6" 8-9% bf gaining 1kg every 3w it's almost nothing, but I know that I will need to throw down 4k cals soon an this will start being an issue... Trust me being consistant itsi the hard part in bb, and of diet goes to shit everything else got screwed up.

you either joking or y dont use gh at all you are 103 kg 8% bf and you bulk on 3500 cycling anabolics and gh ... something isn't right anyway
15iu is a decent dosage for eod why you sayi spike to much logic was that the days that i don't use gh i'll use mk to keep igf level high.

@fodsod cann y give me an opinion on this protocol?

 

[fodsod]

you either joking or y dont use gh at all you are 103 kg 8% bf and you bulk on 3500 cycling anabolics and gh ... something isn't right anyway
15iu is a decent dosage for eod why you sayi spike to much logic was that the days that i don't use gh i'll use mk to keep igf level high.

@fodsod cann y give me an opinion on this protocol?

I think that approach has some merit. Granted it’s out side the box some and perhaps not as ideal or optimal as some of the more proven protocols but then MK use is just now really being looked into as a part of a building protocol. I think the only way we’d know for sure is to have someone do it, test a few times during and post the testing results. I’d like to see the numbers and hear how the program worked.

I’ve run Seros at 18ui EOD with great results and limited sides. Having the MK on opposite days would, in theory, keep the IGF numbers stable to some extent.

In the end, I think it would be a really personalized experience that would be different with each individual as there are several moving parts to the system so a number of factors could effect the outcome.

 

[Action Burn]

aqui no Brasil só encontrei o falso GH, com isso fiquei um pouco desacreditado, mas com muita pesquisa encontrei um excelente fornecedor, estou usando o hgh-191 estou me adaptando muito bem, tendo ótimos resultados. Obrigado kevin.

[GALLERY = media, 1787] Meu best seller de matéria-prima da Action Burn publicado: 08/09/2018 às 01:04 [/ GALLERY]

 

[Jaxino]

I think that approach has some merit. Granted it’s out side the box some and perhaps not as ideal or optimal as some of the more proven protocols but then MK use is just now really being looked into as a part of a building protocol. I think the only way we’d know for sure is to have someone do it, test a few times during and post the testing results. I’d like to see the numbers and hear how the program worked.

I’ve run Seros at 18ui EOD with great results and limited sides. Having the MK on opposite days would, in theory, keep the IGF numbers stable to some extent.

In the end, I think it would be a really personalized experience that would be different with each individual as there are several moving parts to the system so a number of factors could effect the outcome.

The EOD boom dose approach is the best for igf1. There are lots of researches demonstrating it. Once you add basal insulin you prolong and amplify the spike for all the day and also the next, since igf1 stays elevated 48h. The only issue here IMHO, is the insulin sensitivity, basal insulin should be used max twice a week. Fast acting Insulin pre and postwo.

Last but not least I think you have to be already A BEAST. I don't think that anyone at 230lbs fairly lean needs to use all of that....

 

[Marcus]

I think that approach has some merit. Granted it’s out side the box some and perhaps not as ideal or optimal as some of the more proven protocols but then MK use is just now really being looked into as a part of a building protocol. I think the only way we’d know for sure is to have someone do it, test a few times during and post the testing results. I’d like to see the numbers and hear how the program worked.

I’ve run Seros at 18ui EOD with great results and limited sides. Having the MK on opposite days would, in theory, keep the IGF numbers stable to some extent.

In the end, I think it would be a really personalized experience that would be different with each individual as there are several moving parts to the system so a number of factors could effect the outcome.

Hey fodsod, always appreciate your knowledge and experience. Why the EOD with seros? I’ve actually seen this a lot and wonder.

Running 6iu of seros per day now and was gonna bump to 9 in time. Do you do it so that you just recon and pin it all? No hassle kinda thing, or is there an advantage over running it consistently daily?

 

[fodsod]

Hey fodsod, always appreciate your knowledge and experience. Why the EOD with seros? I’ve actually seen this a lot and wonder.

Running 6iu of seros per day now and was gonna bump to 9 in time. Do you do it so that you just recon and pin it all? No hassle kinda thing, or is there an advantage over running it consistently daily?

I’ll be 100% straight with you. It’s was a long time ago (before the internet is what it is) and the first time I had gone up that high with GH. The ability to get blood work on your own was almost zero and doctors in my area wouldn’t even talk to you about it.

I started at 9ius ed for the first 3-4 weeks and the sides were terrible (go figure with starting at 9 a day of Serostim). Mostly the swelling in my feet and hands. Even on a lower carb prep diet. I literally couldn’t get my shoes on and tie them.

I was getting ready for a couple of big shows back to back and didn’t want to change anything so I rolled the dice and went 18 eod. Part was convenience, part was theoretically keeping the dose the same over a longer time line.

My sole intended focus of the GH was fat loss so it seemed logical that I could still get a similar result just doubling up the dose eod.

It worked. I did zero cardio during that prep, came in around 4% and won both shows overall. I was also running t3 and Clen but that was it as far as fat burning PEDS.


If I could do it over again I’d either do it differently or I’d do it and do blood work several times during to see exactly what was going on.

 

[Marcus]

I’ll be 100% straight with you. It’s was a long time ago (before the internet is what it is) and the first time I had gone up that high with GH. The ability to get blood work on your own was almost zero and doctors in my area wouldn’t even talk to you about it.

I started at 9ius ed for the first 3-4 weeks and the sides were terrible (go figure with starting at 9 a day of Serostim). Mostly the swelling in my feet and hands. Even on a lower carb prep diet. I literally couldn’t get my shoes on and tie them.

I was getting ready for a couple of big shows back to back and didn’t want to change anything so I rolled the dice and went 18 eod. Part was convenience, part was theoretically keeping the dose the same over a longer time line.

My sole intended focus of the GH was fat loss so it seemed logical that I could still get a similar result just doubling up the dose eod.

It worked. I did zero cardio during that prep, came in around 4% and won both shows overall. I was also running t3 and Clen but that was it as far as fat burning PEDS.


If I could do it over again I’d either do it differently or I’d do it and do blood work several times during to see exactly what was going on.

Interesting. Good to know. Swelling for me right now isn’t that bad but I’m quite lethargic. Have 75mcg of t4 that I added in 5 days ago but still feel off. Running 750 Test/750 deca with with average of 5mg I’d adex per week, usually keeps E2 in range.

Something’s amiss right now though. Just bought some lab work from privatemd to see what’s goin on. Maybe body is just adjusting to all the hormones as I’ve been off for some time (besides TRT of course)

 

[fodsod]

Interesting. Good to know. Swelling for me right now isn’t that bad but I’m quite lethargic. Have 75mcg of t4 that I added in 5 days ago but still feel off. Running 750 Test/750 deca with with average of 5mg I’d adex per week, usually keeps E2 in range.

Something’s amiss right now though. Just bought some lab work from privatemd to see what’s goin on. Maybe body is just adjusting to all the hormones as I’ve been off for some time (besides TRT of course)

I completely understand where you are as I’ve been there myself. Don’t be surprised if the blood work results show nothing outside of what you’d expect to see with your current protocol.

I’ve experienced the same issue and it’s frustrating not knowing how to fix the problem . Taking naps during the day at lunch was my solution. I was lethargic and my body wanted more sleep so I gave it more sleep until it passed.

There are a lot of intricate mechanisms at work in your system right now that can’t be accessed or monitored or understood with basic blood work and without a deep knowledge of the endocrine system.

The good thing is the body is always seeking homeostasis and is quite amazing at solving the problems we create for it. Lol.

 

[Marcus]

I completely understand where you are as I’ve been there myself. Don’t be surprised if the blood work results show nothing outside of what you’d expect to see with your current protocol.

I’ve experienced the same issue and it’s frustrating not knowing how to fix the problem . Taking naps during the day at lunch was my solution. I was lethargic and my body wanted more sleep so I gave it more sleep until it passed.

There are a lot of intricate mechanisms at work in your system right now that can’t be accessed or monitored or understood with basic blood work and without a deep knowledge of the endocrine system.

The good thing is the body is always seeking homeostasis and is quite amazing at solving the problems we create for it. Lol.

Honestly this is probably the most valuable advice I’ve received about this. Multiple times in the past I look to my bloods for the answer, ironically usually by the time I have them pulled and analyzed, whatever was happening had already passed

I have a feeling that is what’s gonna happen here cause I’m usually pretty good about using exogenous supplements to keep my actual levels in check. I’ll keep doin the napping thing till it’s passed.

My BP was a little high for the first 7 days on it but that always happens when I first start on GH... odd but consistent and right around day 7 it just passes and I feel fine with that. Now waiting the lethargy to pass. If I remember right, last time it was around week 3ish

 

[fodsod]

Honestly this is probably the most valuable advice I’ve received about this. Multiple times in the past I look to my bloods for the answer, ironically usually by the time I have them pulled and analyzed, whatever was happening had already passed

I have a feeling that is what’s gonna happen here cause I’m usually pretty good about using exogenous supplements to keep my actual levels in check. I’ll keep doin the napping thing till it’s passed.

My BP was a little high for the first 7 days on it but that always happens when I first start on GH... odd but consistent and right around day 7 it just passes and I feel fine with that. Now waiting the lethargy to pass. If I remember right, last time it was around week 3ish

Excellent information on tracking your normal usage response and anyone reading this should take note.

Knowing your body and tracking your personal responses to the drugs is a big part of the process to using PEDS successfully. Sometimes you just need to listen to your body and give it what it needs so it can do its job.

It sounds like you’ve got it under control. It sucks but sometimes we just have to adjust to accommodate the situation we created.

 

[Marcus]

Excellent information on tracking your normal usage response and anyone reading this should take note.

Knowing your body and tracking your personal responses to the drugs is a big part of the process to using PEDS successfully. Sometimes you just need to listen to your body and give it what it needs so it can do its job.

It sounds like you’ve got it under control. It sucks but sometimes we just have to adjust to accommodate the situation we created.

Protocol 100% the same and lethargy passed. You were right fodsod

 

[fodsod]

Protocol 100% the same and lethargy passed. You were right fodsod

Good deal, glad to hear your past it.

I don't know if my suggestion qualifies as "right" though. If you're sleepy, then sleep more and take naps was essentially my solution. Mostly just listen to your body and don't fight it. Worked for me. LOL.