My PCT Journal to kickstart HPTA post HRT

[BigAk]

Day 5:

Evening:
Before I retire for the evening I thought I'd write a quick update as to how things went a few hours ago.

Libido has thrown a little surprise my way... I was actually able to get going easily and ended up engaging in good lovemaking with my wife. Erection was excellent and lasting. One observation is that ejaculation happened quicker than usual.... sort of like I was in my old "natural" days... For the longest time while on HRT, I could go on for a long... long time. Today's experience is different. I wonder why this took place..... but no complains here!!

It was very encouraging to me. I would have to say that the HCG is doing a good job at keeping my testes kicking here... I mean.. my last shot of test E at a low 200mg was a day over three weeks ago on June 24th. Without the hcg I would have been at low enough level of test to feel it and to cause ED and loss of libido.

Anyway... Shortly I'll be taking my Nolva and third HCG shot and hitting the sack afterwards...

 

[BigAk]

Thats all right but I need to get a new copy everytime I turn around I let someone read it and never get it back.

LOL.. I know that feeling!! hehe

 

[chap]

I would think that what you are going through and feeling right now is more of an HCG hrt, not really a recovery type situation..... I did hcg hrt for a long while too, and for me it was better than trt, function is pretty good, orgasms were good, ejaculate volume was great, etc..... when I finally went into my recovery protocal, I had run out of hcg and was completely clean for a couple of weeks before I started the serms, so I was at absolute zero when I started, and those days were very hard emotionally and also felt pretty bad too... .when the serms kicked in recovery was actually pretty rapid, within a week I was feeling a huge difference as my body began to recover rapidly.

Best of luck to you on your path.

 

[BigAk]

I would think that what you are going through and feeling right now is more of an HCG hrt, not really a recovery type situation..... I did hcg hrt for a long while too, and for me it was better than trt, function is pretty good, orgasms were good, ejaculate volume was great, etc..... when I finally went into my recovery protocal, I had run out of hcg and was completely clean for a couple of weeks before I started the serms, so I was at absolute zero when I started, and those days were very hard emotionally and also felt pretty bad too... .when the serms kicked in recovery was actually pretty rapid, within a week I was feeling a huge difference as my body began to recover rapidly.

Best of luck to you on your path.

Yeah.... I'm sure you're right about this one chap... I know I must be feeling well due to the HCG. However, I would not rule it out of the entire recovery protocol. It is an essential part of recovery imo. Just two weeks ago, I was under the belief that my testes were nonfunctional and that it would take months to bring them back in order if at all. Just to see that I'm responding well to the HCG is a big step imo, and I'm happy about it. My next step that I'm nervous about is when I quit the hcg and rely solely on the serms. At this point, I'm hoping that the serms would have had enough time to get in my system and done a good job at stimulating my pituitary to start producing LH and FSH once low levels are detected. Hopefully, this protocol will provide an easy transition and avoidance of a potential sever crash. Don't you think that the serms are acting independently of the HCG at stimulating the HP part of the HPTA? I would like to think so!! I would like to know for sure...

Also, I'm thinking about dropping my dose of HCG to 1500iu's instead of 2500... For some reason, I'm nervous about desensitizing my leydig cells. What's everyone's opinion on this one??

 

[chap]

You could be right, perhaps the 'easing in' transition might work well. I always thought that in my case the fact that I kind of did a 'shock' approach may have been why I saw such quick improvement, but I have nothing to prove that.... I had for sure hit rock bottom, as coming off hcg and going with nothing for a week or two there was zero testosterone in my system, for those that come off of cypionate there is usually residual (albeit small) amounts of testosterone hanging around, even for weeks and maybe months.... from hcg if you are totally suppressed and then stop the hcg, there is nothing... that is where I was at, then I hit the serms HARD, and felt really brutal for the two weeks after hcg and then the first week of serms, but all of the sudden things improved rapidly and dramatically.

There is probably many more than one way to skin the proverbial cat, best of luck to you on your protocal, and we and others can learn from our experiences.... I am still going strong, and actually my libido seems to be still improving a little bit every week, and it has been months since I have been completely clean.

 

[BigAk]

Chap... Thank you for keeping up with me... It's very encouraging to hear about your continuous success since months back. I am very happy for you and excited about potential positive possibility for me.

Yeah... I can't even imagine how you had felt after you quit the HCG for two weeks. I know that must have been some prutal period. But, it only make you appreciate it even more that you're totally back to normal now... Two thumbs up!!!

 

[BigAk]

Day 6:

Nothing new this morning.. I feel pretty good... no depression nor axiety. I expect things would remain the same as long as I'm on the HCG which I still have 5 more applications to go.

Liquid Clomid and Nolva have been burning my taste buds on my tongue... Some foods are tasting bitter.. That's the only draw back.

My workout this afternoon was a good one... I did back, bi's and abs.. I was stronger than the past few days.. It probably has to do with the fact that I have been eating more since my panic attacks have disappeared over a week ago....

I've been reading more about HCG regarding desesitizing the leydig cells. There has not been any solid info as to what dosage would have such affect. Since I feel that my testes are responding very well to HCG, I think I am going to drop my dose to 1500iu's instead of the 2500iu's in an effort to avoid any potential trouble with desesitizing my Leydig.

 

[Matt Muscle]

Don't be too worried if your libido does not return while you are taking the high doses of SERMS.. its a very common side effect. Once you have finished this treatment it should slowly return, maybe even when you start to lower the dosages. Meanwhile, they should be doing thier job!

 

[BigAk]

Don't be too worried if your libido does not return while you are taking the high doses of SERMS.. its a very common side effect. Once you have finished this treatment it should slowly return, maybe even when you start to lower the dosages. Meanwhile, they should be doing thier job!

Yeah... You're right.. I have read about that also and I am prepared for it. My wife is very supportive and understanding which makes it easier on. The last thing I want during this is pressure on top of everything that's going on. Thank you for the reminder and your support Matt M. I will be patient during this.

 

[BigAk]

Day 7:

Today has been about the same... Libido is minimal... but I've been swamped with work all day long. My energy level is very up. As a matter of fact I had an excellent workout today.

Testes are still up in size... However I have noticed that their size differ from time to time throughout the day... Is that a normal thing?? I thought I'd ask to see what's everyone's experience.

Tonight, I have just injected only 1000iu's of HCG. I have decided to lower the dose since my testes are responding very well. This way I can insure avoiding any potential desensitizing of the leydig.

Mood is good... No depression and no panics ... Thank God!!

 

[BigAk]

Day 8:

It's 9:00PM.. Tonight I started feeling a bit down.. not sure why.. However my leg workout was very good and I felt strong. Maybe I feel emotional from the Clomid.. or maybe, the 1000iu's of HCG from yesterday was not enough??? Not sure... I'm gonna ride it out, and tomorrow I'll do 1500iu's of HCG instead.

Oh.. no libido today...

 

[BigAk]

Day 9:

Just realized it's only day 9... It feels like time is going very slow with this pct.

Anyway... Today I have mixed feelings about what my HCG dosage should be. I have injected 500iu's last night... Today I feel better than what I felt yesterday evening... I don't think there's a relation though.

I have read the following article ---> http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...le-therapy.htm

My conclusion is that instead of injecting 1500iu's EOD, I am going to switch and inject 750iu's ED till the end of HCG treatment next Wednesday.. I have just ordered bloodwork to measure Total T.. I am thinking I should do that prior to my final shot of HCG in order to allow to get the results in time to make a decision to stop HCG or resume it further..

Or I am contemplating another option (money saving reason) and that is to wait until the end of my treatment to get this blood work done. Only draw back is I am throwing a shot in the dark in deciding to stop HCG without actual blood work results.

Any suggestions are welcomed!!!

 

[theiceman13]

How is the sex drive/morning wood at this point, still low? I would have thought the hcg would have u going by now.b

 

[hackskii]

BigAk I did Scally's protocol with good success.
I think you should follow it to the letter and not deviate.
I found best results with HCG used in the late afternoon.
Don't know why but I got better morning wood when I did this protocol..

I would follow to the letter.

I know you are feeling like you dont know what is going to happen but the same thing happened to me and I had the same feelings as you.
Chin up bro, you will make it through this no problem.
Stay with the 2500 as planned.
You want to ensure that your nuts are fully functional by the time you get off the HCG then let the clomid and nolva bump start the pituitary and hypothalamus.
Those two glands will recover faster than your nuts.
Testicular size means nothing for testosterone production.
using your nuts as a guage for how much HCG can amount to failure if this is the measuring stick.

Yes testicles grow and shrink all the time, I notice after a hot shower they hang lower but feel smaller, this is all normal.

So, chin up, stay optomistic, you will get there one step at a time and I am willing to bet you will end up being natural and NOT needing TRT.

I too was put on TRT and in the end I hated it, I felt worse on TRT than natural.

A couple of things too.
avoid aspirin while on HCG
Alcohol can raise estrogen.
Zinc is a natural aromatase inhibitor is is necessary for testosterone production.
Zinc and magnesium taken before bed on an empty stomach is a good idea.
Take your HCG injections at night (this worked best for me).
Relax and be conforted in the fact that you are not alone, I have gone through this, a friend of mine has gone through this after being on for a year solid
He came off and is in the process of making a baby.

Bro, dont worry, you will get through this with flying colors.
Now that they have e-mail notification I will be reading this journal every day.
Follow the course, it does work.

Another thing about desentization and leydig cells, this is so individual it isnt funny, I have never heard of it happening myself. I bet it has happened but I did talk to Scally about this and he told me that there have been times where he gave even more than 2500iu to patients and not to worry.

Looking fwd to reading more of your posts, good luck but I really dont think you will need any luck here.
That morning wood thing is common and it happened to me.

 

[eeso]

I'll be doing a similar protocol soon, but I'll only be using 1500iu HCG shots not 2500iu. Reason being, my scripts are only for 1500iu amps.

I've been off all Test for a month now, and just using 300iu HCG every 3 days or so and feeling better than when i was on test+hcg. But I'm feeling good on 300iu and nuts are good etc, so I think 1500iu will be enough for me for this program anyway.

I'll start up a new thread when i start my Post-HRT-Cycle.

Where can i find Dr. Scally's protocol??? I couldn't find it on his website.

 

[BigAk]

BigAk I did Scally's protocol with good success.
I think you should follow it to the letter and not deviate.
I found best results with HCG used in the late afternoon.
Don't know why but I got better morning wood when I did this protocol..

I would follow to the letter.

I know you are feeling like you dont know what is going to happen but the same thing happened to me and I had the same feelings as you.
Chin up bro, you will make it through this no problem.
Stay with the 2500 as planned.
You want to ensure that your nuts are fully functional by the time you get off the HCG then let the clomid and nolva bump start the pituitary and hypothalamus.
Those two glands will recover faster than your nuts.
Testicular size means nothing for testosterone production.
using your nuts as a guage for how much HCG can amount to failure if this is the measuring stick.

Yes testicles grow and shrink all the time, I notice after a hot shower they hang lower but feel smaller, this is all normal.

So, chin up, stay optomistic, you will get there one step at a time and I am willing to bet you will end up being natural and NOT needing TRT.

I too was put on TRT and in the end I hated it, I felt worse on TRT than natural.

A couple of things too.
avoid aspirin while on HCG
Alcohol can raise estrogen.
Zinc is a natural aromatase inhibitor is is necessary for testosterone production.
Zinc and magnesium taken before bed on an empty stomach is a good idea.
Take your HCG injections at night (this worked best for me).
Relax and be conforted in the fact that you are not alone, I have gone through this, a friend of mine has gone through this after being on for a year solid
He came off and is in the process of making a baby.

Bro, dont worry, you will get through this with flying colors.
Now that they have e-mail notification I will be reading this journal every day.
Follow the course, it does work.

Another thing about desentization and leydig cells, this is so individual it isnt funny, I have never heard of it happening myself. I bet it has happened but I did talk to Scally about this and he told me that there have been times where he gave even more than 2500iu to patients and not to worry.

Looking fwd to reading more of your posts, good luck but I really dont think you will need any luck here.
That morning wood thing is common and it happened to me.

hackskii.. Thank you very much for your support bro... It has come in a time when I need it the most.

I know that Dr. Scally is very confident about the 2500iu dose causing no harm. And, you have been a proof of that actually. However, my situation is a little different than yours in the sense that I have been using HCG all along my TRT at 300iu's every three days. For this reason my testes did not atrophy much. Now that I'm pursuing PCT, I don't believe that I would need such a high dose to start my testes. I feel they've been doing alright with the smaller doses and they're keeping me up and going; energy/libido wise.

I feel alot better with your words and support which they give me hope that I will soon recover. It helps alot to read about successes such as yours and others; espcially after years of being "on".

Please keep following my journal and keep me company..

 

[hackskii]

I love following journals.
This way I get a blow by blow of things on a daily basis.

Use as much of your mood, feelings, woodie's as possible when using the journal.
It leaves a map of success or failure.

I could tell that you needed inspiration.
Dont worry, I had the same fears. I did not want to be on TRT for life. That thought alone made me almost have panic attacks.

Nothing like a good plan and you got it.


I myself was using HCG too when I came off TRT and went On Scall's protocol, this is why I was worried about desentization myself.
I was overreacting though looking back.

Chin up mate, you will love this as time goes on.

 

[BigAk]

hackskii... I appreciate all your support...

 

[BigAk]

I'll be doing a similar protocol soon, but I'll only be using 1500iu HCG shots not 2500iu. Reason being, my scripts are only for 1500iu amps.

I've been off all Test for a month now, and just using 300iu HCG every 3 days or so and feeling better than when i was on test+hcg. But I'm feeling good on 300iu and nuts are good etc, so I think 1500iu will be enough for me for this program anyway.

I'll start up a new thread when i start my Post-HRT-Cycle.

Where can i find Dr. Scally's protocol??? I couldn't find it on his website.

Hi eeso... You can't find Scally's protocol directly. I had to search and read many threads before I found it on another board.... Apparently, there are more than a few guys following it. I have posted the protocol in the begining of my journal thread.. Look at day 1.

It's funny how often I've been running into similar statements like your about not feeling as good while on TRT.... I thought I was the only one. Can you share with us what prompted you to give up TRT and seek recovery?

 

[hackskii]

hackskii... I appreciate all your support...

Its cool man, us bro's gotta stick together.
Especially when I was in the exact same boat as you.


I cont speak for anyone else but I did some cycles, drew some blood work, doc found out my lipid profile was hammered, I had test levels of a woman.
In all honestly I didnt actually feel that bad. But libido was almost nothing.

The doc put me on test cream and I was on that for 10 months.
At first I felt fantastic, really good, some days had sex drive like a maniac, but then farther along and more time into it, I started to not feel all that good.
Sex drive was down, hard to maintain an erection, felt like not doing anything, felt like I was getting fat, felt foggy in my brain.

Got my doc to get me a scrip of HCG and it had 2 refills. So, I thought to myself, hey I can get the liquid meds for nolva and clomid, why not see if you can come off the TRT creams?
I saved 2 bottles of the cream just in case I didnt recover.

I started my PCT for recovery and was not too happy with the results of 500iu HCG a day.
Well, I suspect that beings that I had balls the size of smashed grapes this is one indication I was shut down pretty hard.
Right about that time (1 to 2 weeks into it) Scally joined the board.
I mush have PM'd that dude many times.
He wanted me to send him blood work.
I didnt have any recent ones but I told him basicly either tell me how to do this or I am going to wing it on my own fail or not, I was going to keep trying.
So, he broke down and told me this protocol that he used for treating thousands of men with ASIH (Anabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonadism). Im like hey, that is me.
So, I followed what he said to the letter and the rest is history.

What really upset me though was the fact that my HRT doc was so fast to perscribe test to me and he really thought he was helping me out but in reality only possibly making my recovery harder. This only costed me more money, postibly putting me further out in recovery, the trips to the lab for blood, his office, all the time and money and for what, only to be left in the same or worse position as I was before?

Sad more endo docs are not more on the ball when it comes to recovery. I even told my doc all about what I did.
When I mentioned I wanted some HCG he said why.
WTF, i said because I have the smallest balls of any man and my girlfriend teases me.
He said get a new girlfriend.

Dont get me wrong, I really like that doc but for me he was about as useless as my regular doctor.

Anyway that is my story.