Myth Buster - Prolactin Tren/Deca

[OldCruiser]

The answer is that it's complicated. It takes a whole group of chemicals to cause breast developement in males. I know some here are on the "it has to be estrogen" bandwagon. That's false. Some have spent years apparently arguing in circles for their side. That doesn't make it right. Estrogen is definitely involved, but it's been shown many times now that estrogen isn't the only key to breast developement. The ratios between estrogen, growth hormone, progestin, and prolactin are all important. I'll include a diagram from a study and also a link to the study. Read it through. It gives links to further research if you have time. You may want to consider getting some of the other key substances tested to see if one or more is out of wack for you. Everyone responds differently to steroids. It's just possible that you normally had different levels before you even injected anything which made you more succeptible. True, you could crush your estrogen level down to the dirt, which will change the ratio. That will make you feel pretty sick and probably cause some othe issues.

Gynecomastia: Etiology, Diagnosis, and Treatment - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf

P.S. I'm not getting involved in a flame war over trying to help out a follow member. I've seen some childish rants on this thread already. Try to be open minded and look at the research.

 

[OldCruiser]

You of course may have had high estrogen levels as you mentioned, earlier in your cycle. You didn't get a test right then so it's all a guess. The article talks about some people having androgen resistance at the receptor sites. This study suggests that androgen resistance can be a cause of gynomastia. Basically, even though you have a reasonable level of estrogen and plenty of androgen, resistance to the androgens make your body respond as if the ratio was worse than it is. I do know a lot about this type of thing from being diabetic. I have a metric crap ton (thats the official measurement) of insulin in my blood. My body just decides it doesn't want to use it. Then I work out. Then suddenly I'm not insulin resistant. Then I try not to die from hypoglycemia. Eat eat eat. Lift lift lift. All the time with the not dying part. Repeat.

Someone on here might have research on how the androgen resistance and receptors can be effected by specific steroid use. I don't have that at the moment.

Santen R: Endocrinology fourth edition vol. 3: 2335-2341, 2001.

 

[Flaming Dragon]

This might sound stupid but i feel like at different times throughout the day they change size. Sometimes i feel like they get worse when i eat. At times they can look perfectly normal.

I think you're just fking crazy! Overly obsessed with what you "think" is mild case of gyno. Maybe you should reconsider AAS next time!

 

[LooneyTuned]

Ive been off the npp for 2 weeks now. Im runing 100mg of test and 100mg of tren at the moment and i still have nipple pain and back acne. I know my estro is not high so what could be the cause? I need to get this taken care of already. Should i just get some caber?

 

[Bigboy727]

Ive been off the npp for 2 weeks now. Im runing 100mg of test and 100mg of tren at the moment and i still have nipple pain and back acne. I know my estro is not high so what could be the cause? I need to get this taken care of already. Should i just get some caber?

Caber doesn't help with breast tissue. Go get bloods and get off your cycle and go to a trt dose. This happened to me on a cycle with my left nipple. I took letro and fixed it. Turned out Arimdex isn't the best for me and I switched to aromasin at 12.5 mg EOD and it fixed it. Back acne is genetic though. Some people get oily skin from AAS and some don't. Best not to risk gyno surgery for $5k, if you can afford rock it!

 

[LooneyTuned]

Caber doesn't help with breast tissue. Go get bloods and get off your cycle and go to a trt dose. This happened to me on a cycle with my left nipple. I took letro and fixed it. Turned out Arimdex isn't the best for me and I switched to aromasin at 12.5 mg EOD and it fixed it. Back acne is genetic though. Some people get oily skin from AAS and some don't. Best not to risk gyno surgery for $5k, if you can afford rock it!

Right now im cruising with 100mg of each test/ tren. So basically 200mg total pw. Im currently cutting at the moment and i dont really want to lose all my muscle. Right now im going through a crisis as hurricane irma caused alot of damage where i live. So i won't be able to get blood work done for another couple weeks from now. What i don't understand is how come my nipples change the way they look at different times of the day. My left one i can see the lump through my shirt sometimes but there are other times where both of them look perfectly normal almost like they shrink. They usually look normal after my workout or when i get out of the shower or when im cold. My last bloodwork showed my e2 was at 20 and that was like 3-4 weeks ago nor do i have any high e2 symptoms.

 

[Bigboy727]

Right now im cruising with 100mg of each test/ tren. So basically 200mg total pw. Im currently cutting at the moment and i dont really want to lose all my muscle. Right now im going through a crisis as hurricane irma caused alot of damage where i live. So i won't be able to get blood work done for another couple weeks from now. What i don't understand is how come my nipples change the way they look at different times of the day. My left one i can see the lump through my shirt sometimes but there are other times where both of them look perfectly normal almost like they shrink. They usually look normal after my workout or when i get out of the shower or when im cold. My last bloodwork showed my e2 was at 20 and that was like 3-4 weeks ago nor do i have any high e2 symptoms.

What's your body fat? What's your AI dosing? You don't have gyno unless you have bumps. You just may have man boobs in your genetic pool...

 

[LooneyTuned]

What's your body fat? What's your AI dosing? You don't have gyno unless you have bumps. You just may have man boobs in your genetic pool...

Im probably 16-18% bf. Im not running ai cus my estro was at 20 last time i checked nor do i have high e2 symptoms. My nipples hurt tho especially the left (bigger) one. Also the left one has a painful lump the size of a quarter. This all happened after my second blast with 150test/400Deca. My first blast was 500-600mg test only, i didn't take ai the first 8 weeks and my e2 was at 120 but i didn't have nipple pain just bloat and acne on shoulders. The second blast i think the Deca was test cus i had the same symptoms but worse like more acne and the nipple pain. Here's some pics, u can see in the gym they look perfectly normal but the other two pics in the bathroom u can see the saggy nipple from the side. The pics in the bathroom are from today and the gym one is from a few days ago but like i said they change in size at different times of the day. Could it be because im pinning once a week? Im using long esters atm.

 

[Bigboy727]

[/QUOTE]

Im probably 16-18% bf. Im not running ai cus my estro was at 20 last time i checked nor do i have high e2 symptoms. My nipples hurt tho especially the left (bigger) one. Also the left one has a painful lump the size of a quarter. This all happened after my second blast with 150test/400Deca. My first blast was 500-600mg test only, i didn't take ai the first 8 weeks and my e2 was at 120 but i didn't have nipple pain just bloat and acne on shoulders. The second blast i think the Deca was test cus i had the same symptoms but worse like more acne and the nipple pain. Here's some pics, u can see in the gym they look perfectly normal but the other two pics in the bathroom u can see the saggy nipple from the side. The pics in the bathroom are from today and the gym one is from a few days ago but like i said they change in size at different times of the day. Could it be because im pinning once a week? Im using long esters atm.

Here is what you need to do

Im probably 16-18% bf. Im not running ai cus my estro was at 20 last time i checked nor do i have high e2 symptoms. My nipples hurt tho especially the left (bigger) one. Also the left one has a painful lump the size of a quarter. This all happened after my second blast with 150test/400Deca. My first blast was 500-600mg test only, i didn't take ai the first 8 weeks and my e2 was at 120 but i didn't have nipple pain just bloat and acne on shoulders. The second blast i think the Deca was test cus i had the same symptoms but worse like more acne and the nipple pain. Here's some pics, u can see in the gym they look perfectly normal but the other two pics in the bathroom u can see the saggy nipple from the side. The pics in the bathroom are from today and the gym one is from a few days ago but like i said they change in size at different times of the day. Could it be because im pinning once a week? Im using long esters atm.

Who is advising or helping you help out?? You have tissue development for sure. Look above for answers on what causes it. Not taking an AI with symptoms is beyond crazy to me. I would stop everything and go to post cycle or do a trt dose and do a normal cycle. Take some letro and see if it goes down. No idea why you would only pin once a week. I would be freaking the fuck out if I was in your boots. Be safe bud.

 

[LooneyTuned]

Here is what you need to do

Who is advising or helping you help out?? You have tissue development for sure. Look above for answers on what causes it. Not taking an AI with symptoms is beyond crazy to me. I would stop everything and go to post cycle or do a trt dose and do a normal cycle. Take some letro and see if it goes down. No idea why you would only pin once a week. I would be freaking the fuck out if I was in your boots. Be safe bud.[/QUOTE]

Im only getting advice from other forums and here. I was takin nolva @ 40mg for 2 weeks then dropped it to 20mg for another 2 weeks but it didnt do anything. I dont pct, i blast and cruise. Ive only done 2 cycles and im on my 2nd cruise now. Somebody on another forum said prolactin wont go down on its own and that i shuld get caber or prami.

 

[Bigboy727]

Here is what you need to do

Who is advising or helping you help out?? You have tissue development for sure. Look above for answers on what causes it. Not taking an AI with symptoms is beyond crazy to me. I would stop everything and go to post cycle or do a trt dose and do a normal cycle. Take some letro and see if it goes down. No idea why you would only pin once a week. I would be freaking the fuck out if I was in your boots. Be safe bud.

Im only getting advice from other forums and here. I was takin nolva @ 40mg for 2 weeks then dropped it to 20mg for another 2 weeks but it didnt do anything. I dont pct, i blast and cruise. Ive only done 2 cycles and im on my 2nd cruise now. Somebody on another forum said prolactin wont go down on its own and that i shuld get caber or prami.[/QUOTE]

Here is what you need to do

Who is advising or helping you help out?? You have tissue development for sure. Look above for answers on what causes it. Not taking an AI with symptoms is beyond crazy to me. I would stop everything and go to post cycle or do a trt dose and do a normal cycle. Take some letro and see if it goes down. No idea why you would only pin once a week. I would be freaking the fuck out if I was in your boots. Be safe bud.

Im only getting advice from other forums and here. I was takin nolva @ 40mg for 2 weeks then dropped it to 20mg for another 2 weeks but it didnt do anything. I dont pct, i blast and cruise. Ive only done 2 cycles and im on my 2nd cruise now. Somebody on another forum said prolactin wont go down on its own and that i shuld get caber or prami.[/QUOTE]
Caber or prami isn't going to help you need to find the root of the source. Get bloods again asap and go on trt. You should post cycle and let your body reset but you probably wouldn't listen to that anyways. You can't manage what you don't measure....

 

[Bigboy727]

Here is what you need to do

Who is advising or helping you help out?? You have tissue development for sure. Look above for answers on what causes it. Not taking an AI with symptoms is beyond crazy to me. I would stop everything and go to post cycle or do a trt dose and do a normal cycle. Take some letro and see if it goes down. No idea why you would only pin once a week. I would be freaking the fuck out if I was in your boots. Be safe bud.

Im only getting advice from other forums and here. I was takin nolva @ 40mg for 2 weeks then dropped it to 20mg for another 2 weeks but it didnt do anything. I dont pct, i blast and cruise. Ive only done 2 cycles and im on my 2nd cruise now. Somebody on another forum said prolactin wont go down on its own and that i shuld get caber or prami.[/QUOTE]

Here is what you need to do

Who is advising or helping you help out?? You have tissue development for sure. Look above for answers on what causes it. Not taking an AI with symptoms is beyond crazy to me. I would stop everything and go to post cycle or do a trt dose and do a normal cycle. Take some letro and see if it goes down. No idea why you would only pin once a week. I would be freaking the fuck out if I was in your boots. Be safe bud.

Im only getting advice from other forums and here. I was takin nolva @ 40mg for 2 weeks then dropped it to 20mg for another 2 weeks but it didnt do anything. I dont pct, i blast and cruise. Ive only done 2 cycles and im on my 2nd cruise now. Somebody on another forum said prolactin wont go down on its own and that i shuld get caber or prami.[/QUOTE]
Caber or prami isn't going to help you need to find the root of the source. Get bloods again asap and go on trt. You should post cycle and let your body reset but you probably wouldn't listen to that anyways. You can't manage what you don't measure....

 

[LooneyTuned]

Im only getting advice from other forums and here. I was takin nolva @ 40mg for 2 weeks then dropped it to 20mg for another 2 weeks but it didnt do anything. I dont pct, i blast and cruise. Ive only done 2 cycles and im on my 2nd cruise now. Somebody on another forum said prolactin wont go down on its own and that i shuld get caber or prami.

Im only getting advice from other forums and here. I was takin nolva @ 40mg for 2 weeks then dropped it to 20mg for another 2 weeks but it didnt do anything. I dont pct, i blast and cruise. Ive only done 2 cycles and im on my 2nd cruise now. Somebody on another forum said prolactin wont go down on its own and that i shuld get caber or prami.[/QUOTE]
Caber or prami isn't going to help you need to find the root of the source. Get bloods again asap and go on trt. You should post cycle and let your body reset but you probably wouldn't listen to that anyways. You can't manage what you don't measure....[/QUOTE]

Should i do a full panel test?

 

[Bigboy727]

Im only getting advice from other forums and here. I was takin nolva @ 40mg for 2 weeks then dropped it to 20mg for another 2 weeks but it didnt do anything. I dont pct, i blast and cruise. Ive only done 2 cycles and im on my 2nd cruise now. Somebody on another forum said prolactin wont go down on its own and that i shuld get caber or prami.

Caber or prami isn't going to help you need to find the root of the source. Get bloods again asap and go on trt. You should post cycle and let your body reset but you probably wouldn't listen to that anyways. You can't manage what you don't measure....[/QUOTE]

Should i do a full panel test?[/QUOTE]
That's best. The female is what I order.

 

[LooneyTuned]

Caber or prami isn't going to help you need to find the root of the source. Get bloods again asap and go on trt. You should post cycle and let your body reset but you probably wouldn't listen to that anyways. You can't manage what you don't measure....

Should i do a full panel test?[/QUOTE]
That's best. The female is what I order.[/QUOTE]

Ive already done 3 female panels in the past 2 month and all three had my e2 come back at 20. I have never checked prolactin or progesterone so maybe this is causing the gyno? I know your not supposed to squeeze them but i did just to check and some clear fluid comes out of the pores of my nipples but Ive always had this fluid even before i started steroids but never had any gyno issue until now.

 

[Bigboy727]

Should i do a full panel test?

That's best. The female is what I order.[/QUOTE]

Ive already done 3 female panels in the past 2 month and all three had my e2 come back at 20. I have never checked prolactin or progesterone so maybe this is causing the gyno? I know your not supposed to squeeze them but i did just to check and some clear fluid comes out of the pores of my nipples but Ive always had this fluid even before i started steroids but never had any gyno issue until now.[/QUOTE]
Yeah check everything. Dude the only thing you can do is crash your E2 using letro and get off. Otherwise you'll be doing surgery real soon or living with bitch tits. Choice is really clear. Fix it, get off and see if you saved yourself and then once clear start over. I really am trying help and can't believe no one has jumped in just being a complete dick. If 8-10 weeks off to have your body correct its self is to long,you're going to do major damage. Nolva or clomid will not fix that you need Letro!

 

[EcpertRealistic]

Ive been off the npp for 2 weeks now. Im runing 100mg of test and 100mg of tren at the moment and i still have nipple pain and back acne. I know my estro is not high so what could be the cause? I need to get this taken care of already. Should i just get some caber?

I had acne on nandrolone big time at 300mg/week dose.
Next time I will run some antibiotics with the cycle and see if it works.

 

[EcpertRealistic]

Im probably 16-18% bf. Im not running ai cus my estro was at 20 last time i checked nor do i have high e2 symptoms. My nipples hurt tho especially the left (bigger) one. Also the left one has a painful lump the size of a quarter. This all happened after my second blast with 150test/400Deca. My first blast was 500-600mg test only, i didn't take ai the first 8 weeks and my e2 was at 120 but i didn't have nipple pain just bloat and acne on shoulders. The second blast i think the Deca was test cus i had the same symptoms but worse like more acne and the nipple pain. Here's some pics, u can see in the gym they look perfectly normal but the other two pics in the bathroom u can see the saggy nipple from the side. The pics in the bathroom are from today and the gym one is from a few days ago but like i said they change in size at different times of the day. Could it be because im pinning once a week? Im using long esters atm.

I get gyno at 250mg of test a week or at 400mg Deca per week.

U just said you didn't ran anti estrogen on your cycle.
Letro will crash your estrogen beyond comfort but may help your gyno. You will loose pounds on water while on letro and be ready for libido problems on crashed estrogen.
After stoppingn letro your estrogen levels will go back up to normal levels and the joint pains and all that crap that comes with crashed estrogen will go away.

Hopefully you can avoid estrogen bounces better in the future

 

[LooneyTuned]

What is the name of the blood test that reads e2, test, prolactin, progesteron on privatemd?

 

[Bigboy727]

What is the name of the blood test that reads e2, test, prolactin, progesteron on privatemd?

If you have the means do a full panel. That way you will know for sure