Myth Buster - Prolactin Tren/Deca

Discussion in 'Steroid Forum' started by Sworder, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. juicebro

    juicebro Junior Member

    This thread is a joke.

    FACTS:
    - prolactin can raise even if estrogen is in range
    - If you are running high test your estrogen should NOT be in natty range, it should be much higher if you want to function and feel good and have good pumps. testosterone to estrogen ratio is important. You don't want to be in natty reference range.
    - Prolactin does cause gyno if your estrogen is not crushed. Do you want to cycle with crushed estrogen and have a limp dick? You can't be in natty estrogen range and feel great if you are running 400mg+ test. FACT

    I have done TONS of blood tests and verified it all on myself and there are countless of other people on forums who have indeed gotten gyno from 19nors and normal estrogen levels. Estrogen and prolactin gyno are very different. I've experienced both and gotten rid of both.

    You absolutely do need caber at hand. But be aware. It's extremely powerful and you need very little. ALWAYS get bloods before taking shit though.
     
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  2. onslaughter

    onslaughter Member

    All I know is that I lactate drips of liquid when on tren or npp.
    Feels different than gyno, but since bitches are the only one's who lactate, I had bitch tits.
     
  3. bubblebuddy

    bubblebuddy Member

    if you're going to say "fact" then please share the reference material. or is this just anecdotal?
    to say "you can't feel good" is silly. how could you possibly know that?
     
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  4. jumpyfrog

    jumpyfrog Junior Member


    I just tested my Prolactine after 5 months from a Anavar and testosterone cycle and my value is SKY HIGH (Double the maximum range).

    Any advices?? If I do not take Caber, will it go down on his own?
     
  5. blood work:
    Free T4
    Free t3
    TSH

    .
     
  6. Of course it will. Once the offending compound is discontinued, things will begin to go back to normal. How long that takes is anyone's guess.
     
    Just1more likes this.
  7. 88GENERAL88

    88GENERAL88 Member

    Good morning gentlemen, I hope everyone is doing well this morning. I wanted to contribute to the post. It’s my understanding that tren is and has never been a direct cause for gyno . Therefore if someone was going to run Tren by itself, there should be no worry. However, when accompanied alongside A compound that has the ability to convert, that is when you need to prepare. You guys will have to forgive me because I don’t know the name of the mechanism by which this occurs. However, it seems to be tried and true. Studies??? Sorry I don’t have paperwork to provide, I go by personal experience, and feel it is far more important for me to share with you MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, than shit I have heard. I hate hearsay, which unfortunately, takes place most of the time inside forums. It has been years since I have used Tren and even longer for Deca. Last time I used Tren it was 40ml 150mg/ml Acetate, I produced it myself using on of Animal’s kits not sure if anyone else ever used any of Animal’s conversion kits but at the time they were cutting edge. This was back in 2002. Now I think that most people forget that, when Tren ace first started exploding on the boards, the teen that was spoken about was either Tren Hex(Parabolan) and Finaject/Finajet and teen ace that was was made using one of these conversion kits. There were several companys that produced two types of cartridges of the fina pellets, that guys were purchasing to make their tren with. For example : Component-TH CONTAINED Tren acetate. The second example I would give would be synovex-H which contained tren ace and estradiol. Yes gentlemen, it contained estradiol. It seemed like right around this time was the Birth of the Tren Gyno Myth. In reality it isnt a myth at all. Bottomeline, At the time it was possible. Reason it was possible was because if the estradiol was not extracted properly during the production and cartridges of tren + estradiol were used in formulation then tren very well could cause gyno even by itself. Tren is not for beginners. That’s the recommendation that I hear most of the time. This might have something to do with that reasoning. My advice is don’t use tren unless u Understand the history of it. Because it tends to shed light on some of the issues that could in fact be avoided. Anyhow I thought I would post a little history and not all the info, but enough to get the gentlemen here that lack little info on tren, to start really doing research themselves. for some of you guys that think that if it is taken that you do not need to worry about E2 levels. Like I said accompanied by a compound that converts you need to take precautions Tren is not an AI. It is 500 times more anabolic and 500 more times androgenic. Guys what is so difficult to understand about this. The side effects should read: trens possible side effects are equivalent to that of testosterone’s X 5 !!!! If you don’t want gyno then be proactive. Is there enough research supporting the tren/ progestin cause gyno myth. No there isn’t. Are the guys that have done tren only cycles gotten gyno?? Yes !!! Was it caused by progesterone. Maybe, only if there bodies were already elevated. Taking something as powerful as tren that binds so effeiciently to the receptors, that is could amplify the effects of positives and negatives 5 fold. My experience during a tren only cycle was incredible, 150mg eod, No AI, because I wasn’t working with pellets that contained progesterone or estradiol. Tren made me incredibly stronger, harder, did all the positive that were talked about. Did I get gyno NOOK I didn’t. Because I knew what I was putting in my body. Don’t be so quick to get big, and also do your homework, interview your sources, don’t be in a hurry to jam a needle in your arm, ass or leg. I am sorry I rambled on so long. Thought I would try to explain this in layman’s terms best as possible. I know that for the longest time, as soon as a thread to a turn towards scientific verbiage, I skipped over it. I don’t do that anymore. Since then I understand more. Believe it or not but using compound is not Rocket science, but there is a science to it. Hope everyone is well.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  8. 88GENERAL88

    88GENERAL88 Member

    You sure it was VAR you were taking.
     
  9. DeathDefier

    DeathDefier Member

    Interesting read on the whole caber/prolactin issue. Thanks for posting!
     
  10. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    Double the reference range is NOT a sky high prolactin level esp wo documenting YOUR normal value.

    However in your case a visit to a HCP is in order bc it’s very unlikely AAS are the cause. And the first question that Dr should ask is, what DRUGS are you taking!

    That being said wanna guess what the LOW end norms are for those w symptomatoc prolactinomas?

    Finally before other experimenters proclaim anecdotes as “facts” for Gods sake post something objective such as a LAB TEST, an ULTRASOUND or heck how about a PIC with lactating boobs.

    Some things never change on PED forums, and I’ve learned over the years NEVER to trust the experience of others as EVIDENCE BASED.

    JIM
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  11. Dr JIM

    Dr JIM Member

    EVIDENCE BASED FACTS

    - Show me ANY evidence 19Nors or ANY other AAS increase serum prolactin levels and results in gynecomastia
    Nandrolone was approved by the FDA more than 50 YEARS ago and still no evidence to support this association- but the bro lore lives on bc of posts like yours

    -FACT while Prolactin elevation may result in hyperestrogenemia the converse is NOT true - an elevated estrogen does NOT increase serum prolactin values absent a pathological state such as PREGNANCY, PROLACTINOMA, Multiple Endocrine Neopladia bla, bla, bla

    FACT an elevated PRL ALONE does NOT results in GYNECOMASTIA and those that believe otherwise need to look for ANOTHER source of their “problem”
    by first confirming the presence/absence
    of GCM followed, an E-2 level and a thorough review of their UGL products quality.

    FACT absent a patholocal disease state such as Parkinson’s disease or Giganticism there is NO PLACE for dopamine agonists in BB

    FINAL FACTS

    Squeezing ones tits until they squirt something out, by God, is NOT GCM!

    A PRL level that correlates with and is causative of symptomatic GCM, really post a two of “tons”, bc I’ve yet to see even ONE!
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  12. johntt44

    johntt44 Member

    Just got off a tren cycle last month. Did bloodwork a week after cycle. My prolactin was 1.6 which is below normal range. Dont write "fact" unless it is a fact.
     
    88GENERAL88 likes this.
  13. 88GENERAL88

    88GENERAL88 Member

    Was your thyroid low??? Believe it or not low thyroid has a tendency to cause an elevation in PRL. Hence the one reason PRL COULD be and issue while using tren. Due to tren uncanny ability to suppress the t3 levels. You cannot always go by blood work either. If you are using deca and/or tren. One of the common denominators other people blood tests is; and it is solely based on the amount being used, e2 seems to always read excessively high. So this can be misleading. Someone who is only running 200mgs of Test E. And 300mgs+ of tren or deca, is USUALLY going to have much higher than normal e2. But this isn’t inFact not the cause of test aromatizing and a extremely high rate. My thought is This is usually the point in which an elevation of PRL poses threat.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  14. 88GENERAL88

    88GENERAL88 Member

    Will your PRL go down by itself. Probably not. In order to get it to drop you must correct whatever issue made it high in the fist place.
    But this doesn’t mean you have to take caber, prami, bromo, levodopa!! You take those to treat symptoms of elevated PRL.
    in order to stop the use of them, you need to find a solution to the overall problem that cause the symptoms to begin with.
     
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  15. Reno

    Reno Member

    From personal experience i must add that as a subclinical hypothyroid person i have found out that when my TSH raise, my prolactine is raised , too. I check thyroid hormones every 3 months. Ive found my TSH at 5.50 after an "Anavar" cycle. It wasnt anavar at all. I gained 12 pounds in 4 weeks. With strict diet i was ok, but i knew something was fucked up. Now with my knowledge i believe it was Dianabol with T4 or t3 possibly, so to have the power and the gain but with higher metabolism to burn fat. Thats why it burned my gland. I used to blame my Testo Prop/tren Hex cycle , but this was a year before the incident. The use of over a month T4 or T3 can burn your gland permanently and get you hypothyroid. I had all the sides of hypothyroid until a nice endo got in my way and helped me. Whenever i let my TSH raise due to improper T4 use or wrong timing or dosage , i also find my PRL a little bit high.

    https://www.ejmanager.com/mnstemps/67/67-1517302972.pdf?t=1561389164

    Also i believe men that are using hcg may find prolactin high. Every scientific research says that prolactin is raised when females are pregnant. So i suppose if you use HCG and go for lab test due to LH/FSH values prolactine will be higher than normal

    Download Limit Exceeded
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  16. Sworder

    Sworder Member

    Your personal experience is shit as is. If you are going to spread these types of "experiences" maybe you should disclose ALL medications, food etc that was taken at each point in time when your prl was high.

    Edit: No labs are included as well. This is the epitome of bro-science.
     
    Reno likes this.
  17. Reno

    Reno Member

    read every research out there on the subject. hypothyroidism and high prolactine go together in most cases.its not bro science its the truth.
    about meds and labs you are right, i should disclose them. But you have a point, my experience is as shit as your way of expression on keyboard, doc
     
  18. Sworder

    Sworder Member

    Can you provide a link or two? I do my own research and can't find what you are talking about. I am not saying that it isn't true, I am saying that the incident of you having a hypo thyroid and that you experienced an increase in prolactin is BS on the account that you don't have enough information posted.

    What exactly were your levels before and after if you don't mind sharing?
     
  19. Reno

    Reno Member

    Hyperprolactinemia in association with subclinical hypothyroidism

    Evaluation of Serum Prolactin Level in Patients of Subclinical and Overt Hypothyroidism

    Hypothyroidism and prolactin - ScienceDirect
     
  20. Reno

    Reno Member

    After my tren/test prop cycle for 12 weeks, with 300mg test and 150mg tren hex per week and after 1,5 month that ive finished pct , prolactin was around 2.50. No problems at all for one year straight. I was natural for one year, blood tested again and everything was perfect. I must search to find my blood test results but i clearly remember everything was perfect. Then i decided to just add some Anavar, which by the time a bro scientist gave me. After a month of use i gained as i said at previous post 12 pounds. Faked Anavar. After this i had some problems as , heart palpitations, chest pain, lethargy. I immediately stopped this fucking pill and went on endo. Blood test show elevated TSH around 5.50 and prolactin on 40. My endo insisted that there is no need to rush and maybe its from stress so i did again blood test after 2 weeks and prolactin was at 48 and TSH at 5.7. I had the sides you see when someone has high prolactin. I prescribed dostinex (caber) and T4 62mcg levothyroxine. After one month of use my tsh was around 3 and prolactin was on 9. I also used some hcg and maybe this has something to do with prolactin. In my previous post i have 2 scientific research links that if you have red you should have seen that hcg may affect prolactin levels also through lh/fsh mechanism