Pretty much crashed E2 no AI???

[Heavy Iron]

Yea the number of people who are fixated on E-2 on Meso and elsewhere is literally unbelievable!

Certainly not fixated on where I want the levels to be. I have no expectation of that and no desire to have a "certain" number. Never even played with meds to have what some would consider a "desirable" number. Just curious as to how it could have been so low. But my guess is no further than shady labs or incompetent people.

 

[master.on]

WTF? dbol is one of the most aromatizing compounds known to man and will absolutely show up on a blood test as estrogen. Would you mind sharing what this magical unkown estrogen is?

Yep, there's an old post of mine (that I can't seem to find anymore) where I attached a pic of Testosterone, Estradiol and compared it to Dbol

something like

Then take Dbol

try to mimic the above changes and you'll see you'll end up with a different molecule.
Somebody recently mentioned the chemical name ( a long and complicated name) of Dbol Estro
like 2-4 days ago.

 

[EcpertRealistic]

Figured I would start a thread as to not clog others.

I am not running mast. Running about 700mgTest E p/w (brewed at 305mg) EQ at 750 p/w (brewed at 330) both PPLraws. Deca 450mg p/w (not PPL or homebrew) and added ZPHC dbol 40 mg pre workout (I haven't beenconsistent with non workout day dosage).....

So I haven't been feeling too great. I knew something was off and I thought it might have been my brew process considering I am a novice. But it seems the brew was pretty dang good. So idk wtf. Bloods pulled 40 hours post pin.View attachment 81137 View attachment 81138

Another case of test or dbol spiked with Aromatize inhibitors. The inhibitors kick in immediately; before the estrogen even have a chance to build up.

Imo

 

[EcpertRealistic]

WTF? dbol is one of the most aromatizing compounds known to man and will absolutely show up on a blood test as estrogen. Would you mind sharing what this magical unkown estrogen is?

With all that test the E Should be ten times higher than that even if Dbol don't show

Or

We have a troll

Or

The lab confused ng for pg

 

[Dr JIM]

1) Another case of test or dbol spiked Aromatize inhibitors.

2) The inhibitors kick in immediately; before the estrogen even have a chance to build up.

3) Imo

1) in the absence of analytical testing or considerable experience w UGL
PED substitutions, such accusations or assertions are worthless

2) bc pharmacokinetic data
reveals otherwise you might develop a little credibility investigating fact from fiction, and even learn a thing or two along the way

3) “opinions” based upon no more than a whim is analogous to stating the world will end tomorrow.

 

[Dr JIM]

WTF?
1) dbol is one of the most aromatizing compounds known to man

2) will absolutely show up on a blood test as estrogen.

1) What is this based upon

2) Bc Mass spec and most ELISA readily differentiate AAS from estrogens.

 

[Dr JIM]

@Dr JIM any thoughts on this?

I should add when lab results are inconsistent with the patients signs and/or symptoms the most reliable approach is to REPEAT THE LABS!


Jim

 

[XmadXscientist]

1) What is this based upon

2) Bc Mass spec and most ELISA readily differentiate AAS from estrogens.

Maybe I'm being a little judicious with my statement of "most aromatizing compounds" but I think there's sufficient evidence that dbol is one of the hormones that leads to a high rate of conversion to estrogen.

As for point 2 I realize it may appear that I was claiming dbol would show up as estradiol on a blood test, let me clarify. I was stating that the dbol supplementation would produce an elevated estradiol level that would be reflected in a blood test.

 

[MedHead]

Drop the EQ

/Thread

 

[Iron Frenchie]

Bet you rub some of this on and your dick will go concrete hard in a hour flat

 

[mayweather]

Yea the number of people who are fixated on E-2 on Meso and elsewhere is literally unbelievable!

The OP is running THREE “home-brewed” compounds (all of which have their own side effects) so why don’t we start there and test the obvious rather than embark on another course of E-2 micromanagement.

IDK how estrogen became the bane of cycling since there’s little to support this notion as few side effects are E-2 specific, such as GCM and fluid retention
while arthralgias, and myalgias are reasonably suggestive of a low E-2 level.

And since a large majority of serious lifters have joint, muscle aches or some degree of water retention we are left with ONE E-2 speficic AAS related adverse effect, GCM which may occur in spite of a “normal” E-2 level.

The point many on this forum
are “chasing the end of a rainbow”!

Jim

Jim,is it a myth that high estrogen causes ED? I used to be able to get great erections even without using an AI. Now I have ED from high estrogen supposedly so I took an AI for a week and besides flat nipples my ED is EXACTLY the same.

 

[Heavy Iron]

Drop the EQ

/Thread

What made you say that?

 

[EcpertRealistic]

Jim,is it a myth that high estrogen causes ED? I used to be able to get great erections even without using an AI. Now I have ED from high estrogen supposedly so I took an AI for a week and besides flat nipples my ED is EXACTLY the same.

Ed caused by high Estrogen can take around a month to improve after your estrogen is controlled within normal range. You are not going to see improvement if you don't control your estrogen for a full straight month or have spikes here and there


If your ED is caused by low estrogen it can take around one week to see improvement AFTER your estrogen is controlled within normal ranges


If the ED is caused by prolactin it can take around six months to see improvement

Basically everything that makes your brain believe you are a female can cause ED to a degree

 

[mayweather]

Ed caused by high Estrogen can take around a month to improve after your estrogen is controlled within normal range. You are not going to see improvement if you don't control your estrogen for a full straight month or have spikes here and there


If your ED is caused by low estrogen it can take around one week to see improvement AFTER your estrogen is controlled within normal ranges


If the ED is caused by prolactin it can take around six months to see improvement

Basically everything that makes your brain believe you are a female can cause ED to a degree

Your post seems very insightful. The weird thing is that last year I ran a cycle with tren/test with no prolactin inhibitor and the rare use of an AI. Never did I have ED unless the chick was super ugly and smelled bad. I wonder if it is possible I could have prolactin lying around,although I think that is highly unlikely.

I am dosing at 12.5mg EOD and I already have puffiness again on my flat nipples.Honestly I feel like my body started changing up on me and it doesn't handle estrogen as well as it did in the past. Either that or this is completely unrelated but I still find it fascinating how estrogen affects the body. My only objection are some of Dr Jims post that claim that people are obsessed with e2 control and what not.

 

[EcpertRealistic]

only objection are some of Dr Jims post that claim that people are obsessed with e2 control and what not.

He is full of s#it. That's how most people that have followed his advice had ended up with ED. He now tell everybody that it is psychological or psychosocial in an effort to cover his ass.

 

[EcpertRealistic]

Your post seems very insightful. The weird thing is that last year I ran a cycle with tren/test with no prolactin inhibitor and the rare use of an AI. Never did I have ED unless the chick was super ugly and smelled bad. I wonder if it is possible I could have prolactin lying around,although I think that is highly unlikely.

I am dosing at 12.5mg EOD and I already have puffiness again on my flat nipples.Honestly I feel like my body started changing up on me and it doesn't handle estrogen as well as it did in the past. Either that or this is completely unrelated but I still find it fascinating how estrogen affects the body. My only objection are some of Dr Jims post that claim that people are obsessed with e2 control and what not.

Wait a month and keep your estrogen under control throughout those 30 days and you will see the difference.

Also Finasteride can cause ED, just in case you taking it.

 

[mayweather]

Wait a month and keep your estrogen under control throughout those 30 days and you will see the difference.

Also Finasteride can cause ED, just in case you taking it.

Finasteride which I do not take causes a DHT reduction of 60%. If you are using high dosage test even if you reduce your DHT levels you are still going to have much more DHT than a normal person that produces 300ng/dl of test even if you were to take Dutasteride which inhibits 90% of DHT production.

With that being said,I appreciate your opinion on Dr. Jim. The owner on excelmale also claims that running an AI never helped anyones ED.I will keep taking 12,5 mg EOD and hope for the best.