Primo Dose?

[ggoe]

Hello Meso,
I have a general question I'm hoping you guys can help me out with. I am a 45 year old and after a long hiatus have been back working out 6 days a week for the past 3 years. I've started my very first trt cycle 3 months ago. I am now at 375 mg test p a week over 3 injections. I have some Primo I was considering adding in. First question what would be a good starter dosage? Second question is there a better option to add in before adding primo? I should add that I also implement four units GH. Thanks

 

[urmumsurdad30]

just start primo at 1:1 with test and adjust accordingly. Can't get easier than that.

 

[reader]

I will do I guess the question is conversely if E2 is in a somewhat decent range perhaps I need to consider a another compound other than Primo?

I started on test only and primo was my 2nd compound. As you increase your test, your E2 goes up. Primo can keep your E2 in good range without a need for AI (arimidex, aromasin).

Everyone has individual response to how much they aromatize and also how much will primo lower their estradiol. Bloodwork is crucial here.

Some people will give you artificial ratios like 1:1 test : primo, 2:1 etc. which you should probably not listen to. As with anything, it might be a good idea to start low and increase your dose based on bloodwork, especially if your E2 is in a good range now.

 

[espresso123]

I started on test only and primo was my 2nd compound. As you increase your test, your E2 goes up. Primo can keep your E2 in good range without a need for AI (arimidex, aromasin).

Everyone has individual response to how much they aromatize and also how much will primo lower their estradiol. Bloodwork is crucial here.

Some people will give you artificial ratios like 1:1 test : primo, 2:1 etc. which you should probably not listen to. As with anything, it might be a good idea to start low and increase your dose based on bloodwork, especially if your E2 is in a good range now.

Get the bloodwork when you feel good/bad regarding libido aswell, so you know where to stay at in general until you get a feeling of your "individual ratio".

Nothing more to add here. It is indivdual.

 

[ggoe]

I started on test only and primo was my 2nd compound. As you increase your test, your E2 goes up. Primo can keep your E2 in good range without a need for AI (arimidex, aromasin).

Everyone has individual response to how much they aromatize and also how much will primo lower their estradiol. Bloodwork is crucial here.

Some people will give you artificial ratios like 1:1 test : primo, 2:1 etc. which you should probably not listen to. As with anything, it might be a good idea to start low and increase your dose based on bloodwork, especially if your E2 is in a good range now.

Thank you so much for the good advice I've done that exact thing when starting test I've gone from 175 mg to 375 and plan on wrapping it up slightly this Friday as I do Monday Wednesday and Friday three per week injection. I would definitely start low on the Primo and get my bearings on how I feel

 

[ggoe]

Get the bloodwork when you feel good/bad regarding libido aswell, so you know where to stay at in general until you get a feeling of your "individual ratio".

Nothing more to add here. It is indivdual.

Makes sense monitor your levels until you find a happy medium

 

[ggoe]

Coming from a "similar" background of a "true" diagnosed hypogonadism (it took me 2-3 years to finally figure out) starting off with a TRT in a country which is very restrictive regarding this topic and nowhere close to what you could easily get in the US.

After being on TRT for a while using 20mg Anavar on a cut for a few weeks I used Primo the next year.
I used just 200mg per week and it did its job. Figured out how it affected my E2 on bloodwork to learn from that. Had to raise the Test at least to a 1:1 ratio, else I felt mentally and libido wise pretty bad even with (what most would consider) perfectly fine E2 levels on paper.

I also tried increasing Test only to a certain degree, but about 250-300mg I start feeling worse again mentally and libido wise - hello too much E2. I guess everybody is different. Just affects my mental side, nothing regarding gyno symptoms/RR or too much water retention.

From that experiences I adjust my dosages and compounds since I do not compete and I do not see more benefits feeling like shit for no reason.

But I guess a good solid advice is always to keep it as simple as possible.

I know people who tolerate 500mg Test a week using no AI. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones haha.

I hope I'm one of the lucky ones that's what I'm aiming for is 500 test if it's necessary it sounds like from everybody's advice I'm going to spend a decent amount of time experimenting and fluctuating my levels until I find a really sweet spot that I'm comfortable with I definitely like the idea of starting low and not going with a cookie cutter approach for one to one ratio or something like that

 

[xrayphoton13]

Well first off TRT is not a cycle. It's lifetime treatment of low testosterone. And 375mg testosterone is definitely not trt or trt+. That's a steroid cycle. You probably can't live on that for life without some health consequences.
If you want to add primo get your ultrasensitive e2 test now to see what your e2 is. Start primo low or at 1/4 to 1/2 your testosterone and retest your ultrasensitive e2 somewhere around 6 weeks to see what your new e2 is. You don't want to crash it or you will feel miserable. Nothing wrong with adding primo but I would just add more test myself and use aromasin to bring down e2. And maybe consider changing testosterone esters. Prop can be painful. Or does it not bother you?

Oh and don't touch insulin. It's not needed for probably 99% of people here

 

[reader]

I hope I'm one of the lucky ones that's what I'm aiming for is 500 test if it's necessary it sounds like from everybody's advice I'm going to spend a decent amount of time experimenting and fluctuating my levels until I find a really sweet spot that I'm comfortable with I definitely like the idea of starting low and not going with a cookie cutter approach for one to one ratio or something like that

500 test will more likely than not require some sort of AI. You might want to find your highest tolerable dose of test first - that is, highest you can get without noticeable side effects like bad acne or high E2 symptoms. Once you know this limit, it might be the correct time to implement 2nd compound (opting towards DHT derivatives such as primo before touching nor19).

Good luck.

 

[ggoe]

Well first off TRT is not a cycle. It's lifetime treatment of low testosterone. And 375mg testosterone is definitely not trt or trt+. That's a steroid cycle. You probably can't live on that for life without some health consequences.
If you want to add primo get your ultrasensitive e2 test now to see what your e2 is. Start primo low or at 1/4 to 1/2 your testosterone and retest your ultrasensitive e2 somewhere around 6 weeks to see what your new e2 is. You don't want to crash it or you will feel miserable. Nothing wrong with adding primo but I would just add more test myself and use aromasin to bring down e2. And maybe consider changing testosterone esters. Prop can be painful. Or does it not bother you?

Oh and don't touch insulin. It's not needed for probably 99% of people here

Solid advice and I will definitely monitor E2 levels the last thing I want is to crash that I definitely plan at some point to come off the higher level of test and cruise at a lower dosage for a while more of a true trt type of dose

 

[xrayphoton13]

Solid advice and I will definitely monitor E2 levels the last thing I want is to crash that I definitely plan at some point to come off the higher level of test and cruise at a lower dosage for a while more of a true trt type of dose

I know the standard advice on fixing crashed e2 is to either load up on HCG or take dbol as it converts to methyl estrogen but it can still be a slow process. @Type-IIx has a great article on rapidly fixing crashed e2 with DHEA. "Practical Application: 50 mg p.o. (from "crashed" to ~92.5 nmol/L or 25 ng/dL & 200 mg DHEA sulfate p.o. significant raises E2 into high range for men (~275 pmol/L or ~75 pg/mL)

https://ampouletude.com/article/11

 

[ggoe]

500 test will more likely than not require some sort of AI. You might want to find your highest tolerable dose of test first - that is, highest you can get without noticeable side effects like bad acne or high E2 symptoms. Once you know this limit, it might be the correct time to implement 2nd compound (opting towards DHT derivatives such as primo before touching nor19).

Good luck.

Thanks at the dose im at now I have felt fine not incredible but fine. No acne or side effects like that of course I know I can't go just by feeling fine sounds like the next thing I need to do is order labs

 

[ggoe]

I know the standard advice on fixing crashed e2 is to either load up on HCG or take dbol as it converts to methyl estrogen but @Type-IIx has a great article on fixing crashed e2 with DHEA. "Practical Application: 50 mg p.o. (from "crashed" to ~92.5 nmol/L or 25 ng/dL & 200 mg DHEA sulfate p.o. significant raises E2 into high range for men (~275 pmol/L or ~75 pg/mL)

https://ampouletude.com/article/11

Awesome appreciate it very much thank you for the link I love digging into stuff like this what are your thoughts on running HCG along with test?

 

[Havoc_Six]

I've not had any hair loss on Primo, that being said everyone's body is unique in the sense of how it reacts to different compounds and chemicals. Primo for some at the 3:1 ratio crushes E2. for others they can run Primo higher than Test.

I'm not one of those lucky people and keep my test to primo ratios around 2:1 and I do fine. I'm not running a blast dose per se, more or less a "cruise" if you can call it that and Primo is great in that sense. I don't need to take an AI and even at a low dose my muscles do somewhat feel a bit more "full" all the time, although its not as profound as running a full blast dose.

 

[ggoe]

Yeah looks like I'm going to have to do some experimenting and manipulate levels for a while to find the sweet spot. Fortunately I don't have to worry about hair loss anymore that's been gone a long time ago

 

[xrayphoton13]

Awesome appreciate it very much thank you for the link I love digging into stuff like this what are your thoughts on running HCG along with test?

For me I only did it to get my wife pregnant (500iu 3x/week) and it worked great. Then I stopped and haven't used it in over a year. I feel better without it for sure. I was a moody mess on it. It's not a hormone naturally found in men and it is not identical to LH though it works similar. Some people love it. And others become an emotional wreck like I did and prefer to leave it out. I've never personally cared about the size of my balls or loads (well maybe when I was in HS/college, lol) but now I'd rather feel my best so I don't use it.

 

[ggoe]

For me I only did it to get my wife pregnant (500iu 3x/week) and it worked great. Then I stopped and haven't used it in over a year. I feel better without it for sure. I was a moody mess on it. It's not a hormone naturally found in men and it is not identical to LH though it works similar. Some people love it. And others become an emotional wreck like I did and prefer to leave it out. I've never personally cared about the size of my balls or loads (well maybe when I was in HS/college, lol) but now I'd rather feel my best so I don't use it.

I'm with you there I would rather feel my best then worry about that. If there's no real high upside benefit I don't see a reason for me to run it

 

[BamaCrazy]

I know the standard advice on fixing crashed e2 is to either load up on HCG or take dbol as it converts to methyl estrogen but it can still be a slow process. @Type-IIx has a great article on rapidly fixing crashed e2 with DHEA. "Practical Application: 50 mg p.o. (from "crashed" to ~92.5 nmol/L or 25 ng/dL & 200 mg DHEA sulfate p.o. significant raises E2 into high range for men (~275 pmol/L or ~75 pg/mL)

https://ampouletude.com/article/11

Hmmm. I must have overlooked the DHEA dosage recommendation. I’ve been taking 50mg daily and my E2 crashed anyway. Time to increase. HCG doesn’t seem to be moving the needle anyway.

 

[xrayphoton13]

Hmmm. I must have overlooked the DHEA dosage recommendation. I’ve been taking 50mg daily and my E2 crashed anyway. Time to increase. HCG doesn’t seem to be moving the needle anyway.

I think he discussed it on one of his podcasts but I can't remember how often you need to take it. I don't think it was a one and done thing


View: https://youtu.be/8PPQ-k_ZSUE?si=AbiPPQSbtLdZD9xa

 

[reader]

Awesome appreciate it very much thank you for the link I love digging into stuff like this what are your thoughts on running HCG along with test?

I've been running HCG for the past year. 500IU per week on cruise and up to 1500 on blast. It should keep the balls working to some degree, making it easier if I decide to come off completely or to have kids.

That's just my reasoning for running it nonstop. Note it can increase your E2.

 

[ggoe]

I am definitely not interested in the benefit of it for just fertility purposes because I'm long past wanting to have any more kids if it helped with mood or libido it would definitely be something I would be interested in adding in it seems like there's mixed opinions about if it makes you feel any better utilizing it