All I know is TB isn’t TGI. For a fact. Beyond that. Speculation. I believe he’s afraid of retaliation from certain members in this.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Rumors Stanford, etc.
- Thread starter Stanfordpharma1
- Start date
Cookieman
Member
Gotcha...fair enough
The preamble to this is based in two events:
1. The Ryno scam of several other Meso members
- Avoiding attempting to get the details of the scam (they may have been posted in the TGI thread some time ago) Ryno owed several members money or product. This sets up some motivation down the road and some reasoning behind assuming Stanford is in bed with Ryno
2. The "invasion" of TGIs thread of the good ol boys led by BB69
- Its common knowledge many members were upset with Millard's handling of BB69s threats and even those with respect for him believe he handled his "mission" wrong. Any good intention he had was never voiced and masked by his conspiracy theories that dragged in multiple members. The perceived "protection" of BB69 after his threats to expose people adds more footing for the speculation that went on to the emails leaked of Stanford's conversations. This is all added to the public knowledge of BB69s dealing of product and subsequent arrest and incarceration.
Now, this event itself....
Kai, as a scammed member and somehow holder of Ryno's log-in info, dug out Ryno emails that included Stanford and sent them to members also scammed. At the same time he posted in the 24hr thread where his interpretation of the emails in regards to the scam was that Stanford was protecting/helping Ryno through the scamming of members. Kai's story is there. He did a shit job backing it up with anything. But the association is there.
Several members in the TGI thread are close and the emails were shared amongst them. What most people cared about wasn't the scam with Ryno but the mention and apparent skirting around narcotics sales between Ryno and Stanford. You all read those emails. It isn't proof but any reasonable person would have some questions about a source discussing narcotics with a buddy he was about to send free gear out for.
This gets to TGI, among others. The talk of narcotics spooks people, maybe rightfully so. TGI shares this information with Oldschool. TGI feels comfortable getting OldSchool's opinion on the matter due to his efforts during the MoreFyah bullshit to rid the thread of him.
Whether the things TGI said to Oldschool were truly his views (these were in DMs which I will not share, but were sent to Millard) or a means to elicit a reaction to get a more honest opinion, I don't know. But that is the first time this issue "going to the top," alluding to Millard, is voiced anywhere but in heresay If I am not mistaken. This perspective comes from the fact that to someone feeling wronged by BB69s attack in the TGI thread, Millard's action in "defending" the threats BB made makes it seem like he is "working" with Millard (as he also plainly made claims of In the TGI thread) and that if BB's and Rynos name are associated with a bust, and Ryno is in bed with Stanford, and Millard is protecting Ben, that Millard must know or be involved with any narcotics activity. Connecting dots of BB69s prior incarceration for drug activity, his link to Stanford through Ryno, and his threatening presence in the TGI thread leads to an assumption that his actions were driven by the bottom-line; that TGI doing well meant he or someone was losing business somehow.
This whole thing met light outside of Millard when Oldschool alerted him to the discussions being had. Until him, the others notifying Millard kept it in the dark, or so it seems.
Judging from the info collected, the actions around it, and TGIs departure, it's hard to reasonably see TGI doing this strictly to start his own board or to exit scam. Reason why; if that was the goal, waiting until it was in place would've made far more sense and taking orders prior to departure wouldve netted more cash. Kai may have a supportable motivation, as shady as entering someone else emails is. Stanford, whether guilty or innocent, was dragged in by his association with Ryno. Same for BB, plus his actions in the TGI thread and against members there. Millard by an interpretation of his reaction to BBs threats in the TGI thread.
As Millard stated in the thread yesterday, the simplest answer is usually the truth. Here's what I think that is:
1. Stanford didn't deny the possibility of narco activity with Ryno, but I doubt that constitutes his guilt. Conversation between friends, went to a weird place, rather than just flat out say no he skirted it to stay civil.
2. Kai located the emails as a means to A) get back at Ryno for the scam and B) provide information to others who were scammed to blow this up. The association with Stanford was stumbled upon and speculated upon due to the conversations covered in 1 above. I believe Kai is also a source/related to a source, so impacting Stanfords business with the association to Ryno could make sense as possible additional motivation...
3. TGIs departure was a coupling of A) formulating an opinion that the possibility of narco dealings on Meso might be real, posing a threat to him more than other members as he is a source B) his association of BB69 with Millard, added to BB69s association with Ryno and their being busted together, alluding to the possibility that Meso is dirty C) his idiotic discussion of getting MoreFyah roughed up.
4. The involvement of the others was out of friends sharing information for opinions and perspective, not as a means to build a case against Stanford, Millard, or Meso. Or so I believe. Motivation beyond recovering scammed money seems unlikely. And that doesn't involve Millard, and Stanford only by association to Ryno and his apparent desire to help Ryno out of the situation
5. This going public was obviously on several members' wishes to alert Millard of any perceived funny business, but, at least to the 3 still here (IE not TGI) that was never the intent.
I realize everyone likes to think their favorite bad guy has this grand plan in mind from the get go, but I thinks its pretty hard to say this could've been somebody's plan all along given the timeline.
Is it possible Millard is a drug ring leader? Sure. Likely? No. Is it possible Sanford has a 55g drum full of percs he got from Ryno and is dealing? Yes. Not likely. Is it possibleTGI planned a grand scheme to come in, use 3 of us as shills, rise to the top of Meso, and then bounce during a shitstorm to a board he created to steal members? Yeah. Unlikely though.
I've tried to keep my opinions out of this aside from my summary of how this became so entangled. Maybe you know all this. Maybe this helps. Maybe there are holes you'll fill with what you know. Maybe I'm a shill and only here for money and Millard is dirty narco dealer running an AAS website. Maybe I'm exactly as I say and so is everyone else. Creative thinking got this mess going. It's probably best for everyone to stop being creative and start being logical.
1. The Ryno scam of several other Meso members
- Avoiding attempting to get the details of the scam (they may have been posted in the TGI thread some time ago) Ryno owed several members money or product. This sets up some motivation down the road and some reasoning behind assuming Stanford is in bed with Ryno
2. The "invasion" of TGIs thread of the good ol boys led by BB69
- Its common knowledge many members were upset with Millard's handling of BB69s threats and even those with respect for him believe he handled his "mission" wrong. Any good intention he had was never voiced and masked by his conspiracy theories that dragged in multiple members. The perceived "protection" of BB69 after his threats to expose people adds more footing for the speculation that went on to the emails leaked of Stanford's conversations. This is all added to the public knowledge of BB69s dealing of product and subsequent arrest and incarceration.
Now, this event itself....
Kai, as a scammed member and somehow holder of Ryno's log-in info, dug out Ryno emails that included Stanford and sent them to members also scammed. At the same time he posted in the 24hr thread where his interpretation of the emails in regards to the scam was that Stanford was protecting/helping Ryno through the scamming of members. Kai's story is there. He did a shit job backing it up with anything. But the association is there.
Several members in the TGI thread are close and the emails were shared amongst them. What most people cared about wasn't the scam with Ryno but the mention and apparent skirting around narcotics sales between Ryno and Stanford. You all read those emails. It isn't proof but any reasonable person would have some questions about a source discussing narcotics with a buddy he was about to send free gear out for.
This gets to TGI, among others. The talk of narcotics spooks people, maybe rightfully so. TGI shares this information with Oldschool. TGI feels comfortable getting OldSchool's opinion on the matter due to his efforts during the MoreFyah bullshit to rid the thread of him.
Whether the things TGI said to Oldschool were truly his views (these were in DMs which I will not share, but were sent to Millard) or a means to elicit a reaction to get a more honest opinion, I don't know. But that is the first time this issue "going to the top," alluding to Millard, is voiced anywhere but in heresay If I am not mistaken. This perspective comes from the fact that to someone feeling wronged by BB69s attack in the TGI thread, Millard's action in "defending" the threats BB made makes it seem like he is "working" with Millard (as he also plainly made claims of In the TGI thread) and that if BB's and Rynos name are associated with a bust, and Ryno is in bed with Stanford, and Millard is protecting Ben, that Millard must know or be involved with any narcotics activity. Connecting dots of BB69s prior incarceration for drug activity, his link to Stanford through Ryno, and his threatening presence in the TGI thread leads to an assumption that his actions were driven by the bottom-line; that TGI doing well meant he or someone was losing business somehow.
This whole thing met light outside of Millard when Oldschool alerted him to the discussions being had. Until him, the others notifying Millard kept it in the dark, or so it seems.
Judging from the info collected, the actions around it, and TGIs departure, it's hard to reasonably see TGI doing this strictly to start his own board or to exit scam. Reason why; if that was the goal, waiting until it was in place would've made far more sense and taking orders prior to departure wouldve netted more cash. Kai may have a supportable motivation, as shady as entering someone else emails is. Stanford, whether guilty or innocent, was dragged in by his association with Ryno. Same for BB, plus his actions in the TGI thread and against members there. Millard by an interpretation of his reaction to BBs threats in the TGI thread.
As Millard stated in the thread yesterday, the simplest answer is usually the truth. Here's what I think that is:
1. Stanford didn't deny the possibility of narco activity with Ryno, but I doubt that constitutes his guilt. Conversation between friends, went to a weird place, rather than just flat out say no he skirted it to stay civil.
2. Kai located the emails as a means to A) get back at Ryno for the scam and B) provide information to others who were scammed to blow this up. The association with Stanford was stumbled upon and speculated upon due to the conversations covered in 1 above. I believe Kai is also a source/related to a source, so impacting Stanfords business with the association to Ryno could make sense as possible additional motivation...
3. TGIs departure was a coupling of A) formulating an opinion that the possibility of narco dealings on Meso might be real, posing a threat to him more than other members as he is a source B) his association of BB69 with Millard, added to BB69s association with Ryno and their being busted together, alluding to the possibility that Meso is dirty C) his idiotic discussion of getting MoreFyah roughed up.
4. The involvement of the others was out of friends sharing information for opinions and perspective, not as a means to build a case against Stanford, Millard, or Meso. Or so I believe. Motivation beyond recovering scammed money seems unlikely. And that doesn't involve Millard, and Stanford only by association to Ryno and his apparent desire to help Ryno out of the situation
5. This going public was obviously on several members' wishes to alert Millard of any perceived funny business, but, at least to the 3 still here (IE not TGI) that was never the intent.
I realize everyone likes to think their favorite bad guy has this grand plan in mind from the get go, but I thinks its pretty hard to say this could've been somebody's plan all along given the timeline.
Is it possible Millard is a drug ring leader? Sure. Likely? No. Is it possible Sanford has a 55g drum full of percs he got from Ryno and is dealing? Yes. Not likely. Is it possibleTGI planned a grand scheme to come in, use 3 of us as shills, rise to the top of Meso, and then bounce during a shitstorm to a board he created to steal members? Yeah. Unlikely though.
I've tried to keep my opinions out of this aside from my summary of how this became so entangled. Maybe you know all this. Maybe this helps. Maybe there are holes you'll fill with what you know. Maybe I'm a shill and only here for money and Millard is dirty narco dealer running an AAS website. Maybe I'm exactly as I say and so is everyone else. Creative thinking got this mess going. It's probably best for everyone to stop being creative and start being logical.
Frankly, this is an offshoot of the weird groupthink that goes on in the TGI thread. Do you guys wear tinfoil hats and have secret handshakes. This is what happens when people blather on about bullshit and don't bring things out in the open right away. Which is supposed to be the main result of having an unmoderated forum. Instead, everyone goes off into a weird clique and makes up a bunch of childish bullshit. This could have been handled quickly and easily just by bringing this stuff in the open right away, and discussing it openly and honestly with Millard.
Yep. No argument there. It never should’ve even been discussed because the “proof” isn’t even paper thin. But once it started going “public” nobody had all the angles on it and it was this side vs that side of who can make the most amazing theory up.
Thanks for posting that and taking the time to write it up. It’s an interesting perspective and I understand how things can be connected based on personal opinion.
My personal opinions lead me to believe that none of it is connected. It’s all a misfortunate set of coincidental things and there are a lot of misunderstandings.
My personal opinion is that BiggerBen was not trying to take down TGI. There are more efficient ways to do that than making the thread unpleasant with some harsh postings only to then completely drop it all together. I believe he stumbled into the thread while catching up on MESO (the way we all do) and then didn’t like what he saw. Read more and then misinterpreted your friendships as an “organized” group. It’s the same guys posting all the time. It’d be easy to believe there COULD be a reason for that.
So for me, without that concrete connection, I don’t see how Millard is connected to any of this.
The emails show discussion of hard drugs only. Nothing concrete at all so that connection is lost on me too. Hard drugs involve junkies and surely one of them would have staggered up and posted about Stanford. Junkies do shit like that.
That’s my alternate take on this. Based on the way my brain has interpreted the events and the material presented. It’s worth probably a little bit more than nothing but certainly not much. I haven’t directly seen any of this. Just my sideline observations.
And that’s what Kai should have done. But it wasn’t people in the tgi thread. It was told to multiple people throughout meso to which they wanted no part of anything and kept quiet. It was he that should have brought it up to Millard.
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Yup. But let’s be clear. Ben hasn’t dropped shit. I’m still a paid shill here for money. He can drop that theory any time he likes. But he won’t because his ego tells him he’s right.
Not to mention, not a fucking word has been said by Kai since.
I'm going back to my food porn in OGH's thread.
I kind of get this. I guess i can understand why folks involved could let the conspiracy theory inside them get the better of themselves. I was given proof that tgi was opening up his own board just before this all started and the conspiracy theorist in me came to the conclusion that this was all orchestrated. But in the end, i think kai should have come to me and allow my side of it before attacking me and spreading my private emails around. He would have found out that ryno and i don't talk anymore, that I've tried my best to clean up his mess and that I'm not in cahoots with a meso crack dealing mob. Here is something that i know for a fact as well. I know that kai was/is close to somebody that knows me as well as anybody on the board and knows that I'm a good guy. That I'm not the kind of guy that would screw somebody.
And, what i have the privilege of in this whole matter is knowing for a fact what i have done and i haven't done. I can look at some of these claims and look at it like "wtf". Like, maybe someone can't look at the fact and know that i have nothing to do with millard or bb69. Whereas someone else only has the ability to try and connect the dots. So, in my mind I'm like "wtf is going on here".
But in the end, I just think that for a source to go passing around other people's private emails is some low down dirty shit. I can, without a doubt say, that i would not have done that. I have been afforded the situation on multiple occasions a similar scenario whereas i just let it go. I have been burned for many of thousands of dollars in the past few years and not once have i had the desire to post anything that would be a security risk to anyone including the scummy persons that have burned me. Imo, in this game, nothings worse than being a rat and posting or sharing private and emails or personal information is up there with being a rat. Kind of like dry snitching. Because you don't know who is gonna do what with private info and have to assume you just leaked this info to the authorities.
So, there is still no actual proof of any accusations being said. That includes accusations towards kai, tgi, myself, bb69 and millard. Oh, no proof that mac is in bed with tgi as well. I'd like to apologize for anything ryno has done and have done my best to make that right with those affected. I allowed myself to get close to him and am guilty of bad judgment. Personally, i don't think ryno was/is a bad guy. I think he had his demons and they came back to bite him in the butt. I'd like to apologize for carrying on the norco drug talk with him. I have had this convo with a few people and just indulged the convo, but never acted on it. That won't happen again. Nobody has come on here claiming i sold them or bought from them norcos, nobody has claimed i burned them or treated the bad in any way. Been here for years. I feel like we're all a bunch of little girls, lol. Including me. I bought in to it as well. For that i apologize as well.
weighted chinup
Well-known Member
My only thoughts, and neither of this is important to anything, just my thoughts on first glance:
The correlation that was drawn (in private) between Millard, a source, and narcos is some of the lowest-IQ connecting of dots I have ever seen. I get that this is a moot point, but I have seen some absolutely brain-dead speculation in my time here. This one takes the cake.
You would think that among the several people who presumably speculated this in private, someone would have the common sense to realize they are maybe out of their depth here. I get that it was done in private but that is no excuse for the level of brain-dead stupidity this particular conspiracy oozes.
No offense to whomever was involved, but fuck...
This is not something that has never happened on this board before.
It's just a variation of "member(s) get shit on by long time member > long time member doesn't get in trouble > speculate about long time member and occasionally involve Millard in the conspiracy". This is not the first time that has happened here, many times hurt-ego's have propagated horse-shit.
I believe what I stated here to be a factor in the motivation for these people even going down this rabbit hole in the first place. 9/10 it's the case, and this is nothing new. It's just the least cogent example so far.
The correlation that was drawn (in private) between Millard, a source, and narcos is some of the lowest-IQ connecting of dots I have ever seen. I get that this is a moot point, but I have seen some absolutely brain-dead speculation in my time here. This one takes the cake.
You would think that among the several people who presumably speculated this in private, someone would have the common sense to realize they are maybe out of their depth here. I get that it was done in private but that is no excuse for the level of brain-dead stupidity this particular conspiracy oozes.
No offense to whomever was involved, but fuck...
This is not something that has never happened on this board before.
It's just a variation of "member(s) get shit on by long time member > long time member doesn't get in trouble > speculate about long time member and occasionally involve Millard in the conspiracy". This is not the first time that has happened here, many times hurt-ego's have propagated horse-shit.
I believe what I stated here to be a factor in the motivation for these people even going down this rabbit hole in the first place. 9/10 it's the case, and this is nothing new. It's just the least cogent example so far.
weighted chinup
Well-known Member
To be clear, my criticism is directed at the correlation that was drawn in private BY the members who were involved, not the write-up/summary by @Mac11wildcat.
I get that this is only one small aspect of the whole thing. Still though.
I get that this is only one small aspect of the whole thing. Still though.
weighted chinup
Well-known Member
I will say though, I believe at the start of this whole thing a lot of us, including myself, suspected there was a purposeful misdirection going on (possibly by members, possibly by TGI) because of how confusing and unclear any of this was.
I no longer believe that to be the case. I believe the confusion to be a by-product of the "quality" of speculation that lead to this conspiracy in the first place. In that context, it makes perfect sense why this makes no sense.
I no longer believe that to be the case. I believe the confusion to be a by-product of the "quality" of speculation that lead to this conspiracy in the first place. In that context, it makes perfect sense why this makes no sense.
You guys see this gun I built back awhile ago? Threw a vortex scope on it
desertwarrior
Well-known Member
@StanfordPharma
This comment seems contradictory to bb69 mentioning in a recent post that when he was released from corrections this go round it was you who helped get him back on his feet.
This also draws to mind an identical situation I recall reading involving you and another member. The member involved is evading me but I will be reading back over my free time today and I’ll be posting that information here. (Exact same details. Down to claiming he didn’t know the person. Just helped cause he was a generous person.)
Also I think it would stand to reason that all of the claims made by kai in the initial post COULD be true. I understand wanting concrete proof but if Stanford is basically confirming the existence of the emails (I understand he’s only addressed the email about not being our friend). But if that email exists what about the part where he mentions Ryno managing his business somehow? What about the rest of that shit?
This comment seems contradictory to bb69 mentioning in a recent post that when he was released from corrections this go round it was you who helped get him back on his feet.
This also draws to mind an identical situation I recall reading involving you and another member. The member involved is evading me but I will be reading back over my free time today and I’ll be posting that information here. (Exact same details. Down to claiming he didn’t know the person. Just helped cause he was a generous person.)
Also I think it would stand to reason that all of the claims made by kai in the initial post COULD be true. I understand wanting concrete proof but if Stanford is basically confirming the existence of the emails (I understand he’s only addressed the email about not being our friend). But if that email exists what about the part where he mentions Ryno managing his business somehow? What about the rest of that shit?
On yeah, my 10mm too! Fucking love 10mm
Don’t worry champ. Nothing revealed here requires you to show off your gun collection.
WeMadeItToAndromeda
Member
Hahahaha fuck, I was thinking the same thing.
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