Russia begins invasion of Ukraine

[Hughinn]

I think it is now a lot where, when the government is separate from the people.

I agree.
And I think that goes for most people in most countries.

American people, for example have no desire to intervene in an old dispute between two corrupt Eastern European ogliarchy countries.

The difference is, that one of those countries bribed Joe Biden and numerous other mostly DNC politicians.

So now, instead of helping Americans recovery from the nonsense of COVID, we're going to finance Ukraine in it's holy jihad against Russia.

Because it bought the support it wanted by bribing our politicians.

 

[Hughinn]

Brother I will not deny that this world could have done better with the opportunity that the end of the cold war presented, but it seems that the only nations boardering the Russian federation who can expect a reasonable degree of security are nato nations.

Then you should be able to name at least some nation's that experienced hostile Russian threats that didn't involve NATO expansion.

Good fuckin luck naming them Paul

 

[Hughinn]

Then you should be able to name at least some nation's that experienced hostile Russian threats that didn't involve NATO expansion.

Good fuckin luck naming them Paul

I just want to say here too that @Big_paul is an intelligent person. I know this for a fact.

I mean no insults here. But he's dead wrong on this.

 

[Big_paul]

Then you should be able to name at least some nation's that experienced hostile Russian threats that didn't involve NATO expansion.

Good fuckin luck naming them Paul

I'm not saying expansion was necessary or a good idea, but considering where we are at today Georgia and Ukraine would be safe today.

 

[Hughinn]

I'm not saying expansion was necessary or a good idea, but considering where we are at today Georgia and Ukraine would be safe today.

Maybe they'd have been safe anyway?

The deal for thirty years has been the redline of NATO expansion into Ukraine and Georgia.
No NATO expansion and anonymity for the Donbass had been Russia's Conditions since the US state department coup in 2016.

And despite what that chick shit idiot on here says, orchestrating coup's and color revolutions in neighboring countries, assassination attempts in Belarus, etc is absolutely aggressive billigerent and hostile actions taken by the US. They (Russia) have every reason to feel threatened Paul, because they are.

I'm not saying that Ukraine neutral and no NATO expansion was the best deal, or the only deal to be made, but it's definitely one hell of a lot better than what's going on now

 

[MR_Midas]

I agree.
And I think that goes for most people in most countries.

American people, for example have no desire to intervene in an old dispute between two corrupt Eastern European ogliarchy countries.

The difference is, that one of those countries bribed Joe Biden and numerous other mostly DNC politicians.

So now, instead of helping Americans recovery from the nonsense of COVID, we're going to finance Ukraine in it's holy jihad against Russia.

Because it bought the support it wanted by bribing our politicians.

It is very strange that after covid, America got involved in a war, it would be better if this money were spent inside the country.

 

[MR_Midas]

I'm not saying expansion was necessary or a good idea, but considering where we are at today Georgia and Ukraine would be safe today.

Although I don't want to admit it, I agree. Georgia and especially Ukraine was intact and no people died.

 

[MR_Midas]

Brother I will not deny that this world could have done better with the opportunity that the end of the cold war presented, but it seems that the only nations boardering the Russian federation who can expect a reasonable degree of security are nato nations.

For some reason, the world community did not draw conclusions after the Cold War and continue to destroy the world. It doesn't matter who is to blame now, the fact itself.

 

[hometeam]

Maybe they'd have been safe anyway?

The deal for thirty years has been the redline of NATO expansion into Ukraine and Georgia.
No NATO expansion and anonymity for the Donbass had been Russia's Conditions since the US state department coup in 2016.

There is nothing aggressive, offensive in nature, or threatening to Russia about adding member countries to a defensive treaty. It just ensures Russia can't attack their neighbors. There was no deal in writing not to add countries close to Russia into NATO, some say there was a verbal agreement with Clinton but as we all know Presidents change and policies change with them. There needs to be some security framework in place to keep Russia from attacking their neighbors.

In 2014 Putin's puppet Yanukovych was overthrown in Ukraine. He refused to sign an EU association agreement he had promised for years and then violently cracked down on protesters, and then planned to flee the capital, apparently hoping he could rebuild his power base outside Kyiv until planned December 2014 elections. Instead, his allies abandoned him, and so he abandoned Ukraine. Ukraine's congress impeached him. He lives in exile in Russia now and every other candidate for President in the last 20 years has been pro-West. Putin's people have talked about having him run the Donbas.

Was this part of a US state department "coup"? I hope so, because it's clear Ukraine doesn't want to be a vassal state to Putin. So Putin started recruiting, funding, equipping and training anti-Ukraine militias in the Donbas... sending in non-uniformed soldiers. Shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 killing 300 people. Trying to create his own unrest, the kind that got his puppet overthrown, except that it didn't work it just angered the Ukrainians more, solidified their opposition to Russia. Ukraine was not going to let go of their provinces on the Russian border just because Russia had militarized them.

 

[Hughinn]

There is nothing aggressive, offensive in nature, or threatening to Russia about adding member countries to a defensive treaty. It just ensures Russia can't attack their neighbors. There was no deal in writing not to add countries close to Russia into NATO, some say there was a verbal agreement with Clinton but as we all know Presidents change and policies change with them. There needs to be some security framework in place to keep Russia from attacking their neighbors.

In 2014 Putin's puppet Yanukovych was overthrown in Ukraine. He refused to sign an EU association agreement he had promised for years and then violently cracked down on protesters, and then planned to flee the capital, apparently hoping he could rebuild his power base outside Kyiv until planned December 2014 elections. Instead, his allies abandoned him, and so he abandoned Ukraine. Ukraine's congress impeached him. He lives in exile in Russia now and every other candidate for President in the last 20 years has been pro-West. Putin's people have talked about having him run the Donbas.

Was this part of a US state department "coup"? I hope so, because it's clear Ukraine doesn't want to be a vassal state to Putin. So Putin started recruiting, funding, equipping and training anti-Ukraine militias in the Donbas... sending in non-uniformed soldiers. Shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 killing 300 people. Trying to create his own unrest, the kind that got his puppet overthrown, except that it didn't work it just angered the Ukrainians more, solidified their opposition to Russia. Ukraine was not going to let go of their provinces on the Russian border just because Russia had militarized them.

Stupid bastard.

I've already shot every one of those stupid media talking points down multiple times.

Just because you keep parroting that same horseshit doesn't make it true.

It takes at least two to tango, this isn't as simple as "Putin bad, NATO good"

Ignorant cocksucker. You're just promoting this senseless destruction because your television tells you to and you're too stupid to know any better

 

[MR_Midas]

There is nothing aggressive, offensive in nature, or threatening to Russia about adding member countries to a defensive treaty. It just ensures Russia can't attack their neighbors. There was no deal in writing not to add countries close to Russia into NATO, some say there was a verbal agreement with Clinton but as we all know Presidents change and policies change with them. There needs to be some security framework in place to keep Russia from attacking their neighbors.

In 2014 Putin's puppet Yanukovych was overthrown in Ukraine. He refused to sign an EU association agreement he had promised for years and then violently cracked down on protesters, and then planned to flee the capital, apparently hoping he could rebuild his power base outside Kyiv until planned December 2014 elections. Instead, his allies abandoned him, and so he abandoned Ukraine. Ukraine's congress impeached him. He lives in exile in Russia now and every other candidate for President in the last 20 years has been pro-West. Putin's people have talked about having him run the Donbas.

Was this part of a US state department "coup"? I hope so, because it's clear Ukraine doesn't want to be a vassal state to Putin. So Putin started recruiting, funding, equipping and training anti-Ukraine militias in the Donbas... sending in non-uniformed soldiers. Shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 killing 300 people. Trying to create his own unrest, the kind that got his puppet overthrown, except that it didn't work it just angered the Ukrainians more, solidified their opposition to Russia. Ukraine was not going to let go of their provinces on the Russian border just because Russia had militarized them.

I read your posts, more and more I think that the trouble could have been avoided back in 2014.

 

[MR_Midas]

Stupid bastard.

I've already shot every one of those stupid media talking points down multiple times.

Just because you keep parroting that same horseshit doesn't make it true.

It takes at least two to tango, this isn't as simple as "Putin bad, NATO good"

Ignorant cocksucker. You're just promoting this senseless destruction because your television tells you to and you're too stupid to know any better

You are a smart person and think very sensibly, but you have a different point of view. but why do you get so emotional and stoop to insulting your opponents?

 

[hometeam]

I read your posts, more and more I think that the trouble could have been avoided back in 2014.

Well 2014 was when Putin's puppet was overthrown after the protests and violent crackdown, then Putin invaded Crimea and armed pro-Russia militias in the Donbas.

Would've this been avoided if Yanukovych had signed an EU association agreement he had been promising to that led to the protests? Would the protests and riots not been successful if not for Western help (assuming there even was Western help)? Hard to say, but unless Yanukovych was made dictator he was going to be voted out eventually and he's the only pro-Russia candidate that has been in the running for President there. Ukraine was on the path of Westernization, which Putin considers decadent and degenerative, and a possible path to NATO membership.

And it's impossible to get into Putin's head. It's one of the problems you run into when one man rules a country with absolute autocracy. He's made comments about Russia and Ukraine being "one people," about "Russky mir," and about the collapse of the Soviet Union being a great tragedy.

One thing is for sure: this absolutely would have been avoided had Ukraine not given up their 1,600 nuclear warheads in '94. And once you realize that then you realize this is about a stronger country bullying a weaker one, doing things it would not do if they thought it could defend itself.

 

[Norse13]

Brother I will not deny that this world could have done better with the opportunity that the end of the cold war presented, but it seems that the only nations boardering the Russian federation who can expect a reasonable degree of security are nato nations.

Russia bordes to 14 countries, 5 of them are NATO. I would assume China don't feel particularly threatened by Russia. Neither would Mongolia or North Korea. Kazakhstan attempting to maintain friendly relations with Russia while edging closer to EU with some concerns.

 

[Big_paul]

Russia bordes to 14 countries, 5 of them are NATO. I would assume China don't feel particularly threatened by Russia. Neither would Mongolia or North Korea. Kazakhstan attempting to maintain friendly relations with Russia while edging closer to EU with some concerns.

Does any rational person believe that nato or any nato country would ever invade Russia? No country would even consider it.

Any nato threat to Russia is nonsense.

 

[Hughinn]

Does any rational person believe that nato or any nato country would ever invade Russia? No country would even consider it.

Any nato threat to Russia is nonsense.

That's bullshit Paul.

NATO was originally created to threaten and contain the Soviet Union.

If that didn't end with the Soviet Union, like it should have, then why not let Russia join NATO? They've attempted twice!

The US government has lied to Russia time and time again about the limits of NATO expansion.

At this point, what the fuck would any reasonable Russian person think NATO was, except for a weapon wielded against Russia?

Try to think rationally here Paul.

What would you call relentless attempts at coups and color revolutions attempted on Russia and it's allies and over again except for a different type of invasion and warfare?

Because that's exactly what it is.

 

[Hughinn]

You are a smart person and think very sensibly, but you have a different point of view. but why do you get so emotional and stoop to insulting your opponents?

It's not emotional .

It's just that that @hometeam guy is an idiot and if you read this thread, his ignorant impetuous lies and bullshit has been pounded into the ground multiple times.

He just keeps parroting it over and over.

My patience with him is exhausted.

Nobody that has any real knowledge of this subject would buy his bullshit.
He parrots it continuously just to try to get attention and hope nobody is paying attention to the reality of the situation.

The guys a useless idiot

 

[Big_paul]

⁶

Try to think rationally here Paul

No one wants war with Russia. It's suicide. To think the "west" is a threat is absurd.

Ukraine is now an existential threat to Putin though.

 

[Hughinn]

⁶

No one wants war with Russia. It's suicide. To think the "west" is a threat is absurd.

Ukraine is now an existential threat to Putin though.

Paul, the only people who want this war is a few people in Washington DC. Joe Biden included.

American people don't want, or need this war my friend. We have more problems in our own government than we could possibly ever solve in our lifetime. Much less anybody else's problems.

War with Russia, is definitely not something any sensible American wants. Especially not just because a corrupt Eastern European ogliarchy that bribed our politicians has a beef with Russia.

We've got hundreds of thousands of homeless children and veterans that sleep on our streets every night. There's American citizens who die everyday because they can't afford simple medical care.
Paul, why in the fuck are we going bankrupt spending trillions of dollars financing a war we have no legitimate national security concern in whatsoever?

Think man!







@MR_Midas @hometeam is a useless piece of shit, cheering on the death and suffering of hundreds of thousands of men each day and week and month of this war, on both, or either side, and each one of those men dying on that frozen plain on either side are worth a dozen of him. He's a chickenshit coward, a bastard and a wretched tool.

I just have no use for such a despicable grotesque of conceivable stupidity and lack of manhood or originality.

I believe in real people instead. I believe men can understand each other and that war only benifits the rich.

I'm certain that our own leadership could have easily prevented this whole thing with simple low cost diplomacy and should have, but chose not to, simply because of greed and ambitions. And I do not support that sir. No sir. Not in any way.

And it disgusts me. Just like that wretched cowardly grotesque @hometeam disgusts me for mindlessly cheering it all on.
Because people matter. Lives matter. Humanity matters.

Greed and ambitions, ....not so much.

Empires come and go....none last forever. That idiot can howl in approval for the current thing, but it will pass eventually. Humanity, I hope, is what will persist

 

[MR_Midas]

Well 2014 was when Putin's puppet was overthrown after the protests and violent crackdown, then Putin invaded Crimea and armed pro-Russia militias in the Donbas.

Would've this been avoided if Yanukovych had signed an EU association agreement he had been promising to that led to the protests? Would the protests and riots not been successful if not for Western help (assuming there even was Western help)? Hard to say, but unless Yanukovych was made dictator he was going to be voted out eventually and he's the only pro-Russia candidate that has been in the running for President there. Ukraine was on the path of Westernization, which Putin considers decadent and degenerative, and a possible path to NATO membership.

And it's impossible to get into Putin's head. It's one of the problems you run into when one man rules a country with absolute autocracy. He's made comments about Russia and Ukraine being "one people," about "Russky mir," and about the collapse of the Soviet Union being a great tragedy.

One thing is for sure: this absolutely would have been avoided had Ukraine not given up their 1,600 nuclear warheads in '94. And once you realize that then you realize this is about a stronger country bullying a weaker one, doing things it would not do if they thought it could defend itself.

Too bad history can't be reversed. I think now both Ukrainian and Russian people are not ordinary politicians. Wishing that this is what is happening. I think when Putin came to power, everyone hoped for a democratic and developed state. And it turned out like this.