Secret Sources, the SCOC and the Steroid Underground

I'm still trying to figure out why pi22 said sources would be allowed to post their email addy if they are not allowed to source. I picture a guy on the corner saying "I'm not sourcing here on Meso, but here's my email addy just in case...wink wink".
I said because its a start. Listing price and t/a is whats incriminating. Also there members that still want info on where to get. I felt this is a middle ground or at least a start as so many people having different feeling on this. Some time its best to meet in the middle.
 
I actually think the way the Karius thing was handled went down pretty well. In the end he got ran off and i believe a lot of information was thrown out there for all to see. He showed his ass and we got to see the playbook so to speak of sources, or at least a few pages. We had the shills, the deflection, stalling, blaming, and even a mod from another board come out to defend him....yet he still bit the dust. Would i like to have seen it work itself out quicker? Sure, but i don't see how we can make it go any faster other than faster bloodwork or mass specs/testing. On that i totally agree with Brutus. It is all in the bloodwork/testing. All it takes is a couple of contributing members to post some bad test results and that pretty much puts the nail in the coffin. I also have to believe it helps people on other boards even. Some information has to leak out to other boards about bad sources that were found out here.

A couple of things from reading across the last few pages. I don't think taking free samples and endorsing a source is bueno. By doing that you set yourself up for a fall when and if that source goes bad. You also have a measure of responsibility to the guys that take your word seriously and chase your source until it crashes. You start the domino effect. You aren't just endorsing shoes here guys, but instead a product that can cause harm if the source tends to not give a shit....which seems to be all too common lately. I sure as hell don't want to share any responsibility for someone getting gyno from the mislabeled pct meds that turned out to be dbol or something worse. This should definitely be part of the member code of conduct. Sure, we can't enforce it, but if it really needs to be enforced then you have no honor and i can't be bothered to care about your opinion anyway. I know some people don't give a shit, but some well established guys here should have a little responsibility. There are probably guys looking up to you who may be noobs and could use a hand instead of getting bent over.

I figure we are about to have a member code of conduct thread up soon and i'll be interested to see what make the good and bad lists.
 
I like the SCOC. No matter what sources are going to come on here to sell their wares. NO MATTER WHAT, unless Millard completely stops it and I would be fine with that.

But, if sources are going to come on here to do their thing, then I truly like the idea of TRYING to hold them accountable for the health and dosage of their gear. Right now, I think this is the biggest idea separating MESO from other forums. Yes there is no moderators and that is working out pretty well IMHO, but MESO members have taken the next step on their own accord and isn't that what MESO is about?

So no SCOC, no sources period. Once they post, an administrator deletes the post. Our job is to hit the report button. Done.


I did not read every opinion on this thread. I got into this one too late.
 
There has to be some middle ground to make it work, not only for the sources, but many of the members. Access to a good source is the quest for most. Are we to review sources that only sell on other boards? Do you realistically believe all transactions will cease to originate from Meso?

The open advertising, the dick riding which in some threads had become beyond embarrassing to read and openness of illegal transactions for the world to view, seemingly being supported by Meso has always bothered me. Meso needs to distance itself a bit. The underground needs to be just that. Right now, on Meso it's like front page news.
 
Most of this discussion is much to do about nothing bc the SCOC is missing the teeth to enact change on behalf of UGLs.
The checks and balances are simply not rigid enough and no mechanism exists to verify SCOC compliance at present.

If the idea is to allow sources access to Meso to "sell their wares", the most effective means of ensuring an UGL is delivering a quality product, is to analyze those products being sold AND posting the results pronto.

Nothing has more teeth than several posts that expose a sources AAS as BUNK or under-dosed garbage

Members of this forum did exactly that by exposing M "Strongs" AAS and he GTFOOH!

Sure there will always be gullible fools that are so naive to believe the crap MS could have forwarded by PM.

And of course that's a mates prerogative, but the onus is on them at that juncture, forewarned is fair warned IMO.

However I do agree as a group of well intentioned members we have an obligation to forward others there is a scumbag lurking in the shadows and the SCOC is just one of several mechanisms at our disposal.

Yet we must also remember for those choosing not to exercise due diligence or to ignore the warnings of those much more experienced; "stupid is as stupid does"!

Nonetheless let's not throw out the baby with the bath water just bc the babies dirty :)

Regs
Jim
 
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I originally came here looking for a source but stayed and became involved because of Millard and his vision. I don't understand why anyone wants to stay here to go against his vision. If someone has a different vision go start your own forum.

The SCOC played it's part and in its futility we learned a lot. It's failure will just be an evolutuonary step for meso. So what's next? I have to agree to be careful to not suddenly go to a opposite extreme and it is quite obvious several are not ready for us to be a full blown review board. Let's remember this and not get side tracked either we were and are blazing trails in the blood work testing department so let's not let these discussions derail us from our victories. We must stay on that path.

Now the middle ground. From what I hear our number one problem is start up/amateur labs. I think this would be a good starting point how do we keep them out or at a minimum. I hate to tell you this if one thinks no sources is a practice in futility you are absolutely kidding yourself thinking the big guys want to come set up shop at a place that is doing rigorous testing.
 
Two things are going to happen:

1) MESO members will praise the source for free gear and..

2) Guys are going to get scammed and infected because of this.

You think scams and infections are happening now, just wait until this shit takes place under the cover of PM.

MESO will go from having an fairly ineffective open SCOC to prevent scamming to having a private underground that actually encourages it.

In my mind it's black and white. Either you allow sources to participate on MESO or you don't. You can't be half pregnant.
 
Two things are going to happen:

1) MESO members will praise the source for free gear and..

2) Guys are going to get scammed and infected because of this.

You think scams and infections are happening now, just wait until this shit takes place under the cover of PM.

MESO will go from having an fairly ineffective open SCOC to prevent scamming to having a private underground that actually encourages it.

In my mind it's black and white. Either you allow sources to participate on MESO or you don't. You can't be half pregnant.

The biggest problems to SCOC is that you have sources who begin to sell outright without obeying its rules for engagement in the underground section of meso.

Begin with having each source comply fully to the SCOC requirement before being allowed to sell. Many of the SCOC unfollowed requirements are noticed deep 15-20 pages into a thread when the source has spread enough recognizable damage.

Too many chiefs not enough indians.
 
The more this forum works towards the final solution, ad lib testing of source products, the better off it will be.

I also suspect this achievement will attract the more legitimate sources towards Meso not having to "compete" with rif-raf selling discounted AAS bc of products that are either mislabeled, under-dosed or absolute BUNK.

AND the more traffic Meso will generate, which is good for ALL of us bc that's good for Millard!
 
SCOC does have a pretty good record at keeping the fly by nights out. I understand the invitation part to though. Anyone say crossroads.
 
i really dont think that a board that all we do is talk about AAS would be around very long, i find it hard to imagine that i would go to another board , spend alot of time so they get to trust me so i can get a source, then come back here just to sit around and talk about using it .
 
Good point Doc, and one i was thinking about the last couple of days myself. I would assume that legitimate good sources might come around out of this, but that might be a pipe dream. Regardless, we need to run the bad ones off as quickly as we can.
 
I am, as I am sure most are, tired of these no name sources coming here to take advantage of members. The SCOC was implemented with the intent of providing a bit of protection
for members. It has done so to an extent. I believe that experiment has ran its course.

I like the idea of a member code of conduct. After this discussion, I don't believe it's completely necessary though. Read this and the scoc thread and they should be well on their way to navigating the market of under dosed/bunk gear.

For those that have doubts about us being able to come together and push the sources out of here don't realize the power we as members actually hold.

I'd rather login to Meso and discuss diet, training, and the safe effective way to use AAS than berate a new source into posting requirements every week. Especially when those requirements won't lessen the liklihood of the source jeopardizing member safety and running off with members money.

Just my thoughts
 
I dont consider meso a source board just because there are sources here, I consider a source board a place where the source holds all the cards thats clearly not the case here in ower home. I believe if srcs are going to be here they will push product, I just dont want people purchasing threw pm. I do believe that we either need to get rid of the scoc or revamp it, there is to many holes for srcs to slither threw. I remember when I joined a year ago people were stil getting fucked atleast with the scoc everyone was on a unified front.
@Millard Baker sorry for going against the grain on this one, I do respect your vision I just dont see a srcs not pushing product threw pm if we dont let them do it openly.
 
I dont consider meso a source board just because there are sources here, I consider a source board a place where the source holds all the cards thats clearly not the case here in ower home. I believe if srcs are going to be here they will push product, I just dont want people purchasing threw pm. I do believe that we either need to get rid of the scoc or revamp it, there is to many holes for srcs to slither threw. I remember when I joined a year ago people were stil getting fucked atleast with the scoc everyone was on a unified front.
@Millard Baker sorry for going against the grain on this one, I do respect your vision I just dont see a srcs not pushing product threw pm if we dont let them do it openly.
I think a lot of people are looking at this the wrong way.

Whether some persist in attempting to spam MESO as a sales platform shouldn't be the main issue or measure of success.

As far as I'm concerned, members need to take charge and STOP encouraging it.

Currently, members are actively encouraging and the SCOC explicitly does so. It should be no surprise that most sources are pushing product.

If members transform the culture and change norms of behaviors such that this type of spam is not encouraged, you will see a change in source behavior.

Spam will be significantly reduced. Just because spam behavior is not eliminated does not mean it is not indicative of success.
 
I fail to believe that any source will simply participate in discussions without peddling their gear (at least privately). They have one agenda. Wouldn't we be worse off allowing them to 'contribute' while secretly selling their shit? At least we can save people from getting jacked if they have their own thread and we know they are sourcing
Naps is doing it.
 
I would be remiss if I did not point out it seems the majority of those resistant to change either have not neen here long enough to see or feel the scamming, fly by night way most of these sources operate. Mayne thats why 18 year old people vote and not 8 year olds. I understand still needing to find a source and being scared all the time you put in here was for naught. The others against changes are enjoying a free sample, source encouragement model. At least the divisions are clear- and neither side is "right" or "wrong".

@Millard Baker continues to say something ober amd ober that is being ignored... a great first step is to STOP ENCOURAGING SOURCES. If you start making buddies with a source posting a list it is obvious you are doing it for your benefit... if you take samples and promise bloods they will wait for the bloods. It exavernates the issue by accepting this as a viable place for them to set up shop.

The scoc does the same thing. It says if you do this, this and this you ate "vetted" and welcome here - its like letting the stray cat out of the cold and into your house. You now have a new cat that may tear up your house and shit everywhere.

So instead of source or no source, instead of no emails and pricelists can we say-
No samples
No scoc making the feel legitimate being here
And no buddy buddy welcome wagon? Keep this business professional so to speak?
 
I would be remiss if I did not point out it seems the majority of those resistant to change either have not neen here long enough to see or feel the scamming, fly by night way most of these sources operate. Mayne thats why 18 year old people vote and not 8 year olds. I understand still needing to find a source and being scared all the time you put in here was for naught. The others against changes are enjoying a free sample, source encouragement model. At least the divisions are clear- and neither side is "right" or "wrong".

@Millard Baker continues to say something ober amd ober that is being ignored... a great first step is to STOP ENCOURAGING SOURCES. If you start making buddies with a source posting a list it is obvious you are doing it for your benefit... if you take samples and promise bloods they will wait for the bloods. It exavernates the issue by accepting this as a viable place for them to set up shop.

The scoc does the same thing. It says if you do this, this and this you ate "vetted" and welcome here - its like letting the stray cat out of the cold and into your house. You now have a new cat that may tear up your house and shit everywhere.

So instead of source or no source, instead of no emails and pricelists can we say-
No samples
No scoc making the feel legitimate being here
And no buddy buddy welcome wagon? Keep this business professional so to speak?

While you are right, let me add going forward with the SCOC we can make it nearly impossible for sources to come here considering the restrictions will be heavy. Which include a rigorous testing and funding program. And if they don't wish to comply easy enough to not have anyone here sell unless their intentions are good.
 
Is there a way too deny sources pm privileges? Keeping the transactions completely off the board would not prevent us from discussing the source and giving them a chance to defend their positions if posts are critical. It would be up to the members to guide fellow members from posting T/A times and other stupid dick riding comments. We could shape the culture by redirecting conversations to reviews, whether positive or negative.

Sources would have the opportunity to respond and offer explanations or even share their experiences regarding topics other than the sale of their products.
It's us that needs to change. Not the forum. The basic forum was originally created to not provide a source forum, but to discuss the ways of the underground.
 
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