Secret Sources, the SCOC and the Steroid Underground

[Mr.Bravo]

I think a lot of people are looking at this the wrong way.

Whether some persist in attempting to spam MESO as a sales platform shouldn't be the main issue or measure of success.

As far as I'm concerned, members need to take charge and STOP encouraging it.

Currently, members are actively encouraging and the SCOC explicitly does so. It should be no surprise that most sources are pushing product.

If members transform the culture and change norms of behaviors such that this type of spam is not encouraged, you will see a change in source behavior.

Spam will be significantly reduced. Just because spam behavior is not eliminated does not mean it is not indicative of success.

I dont even th7nk it should be up for debate at this time anymore fellas I believe millard wants us to rise above and not turn his creation in to eroids. Please millard correct me if iam wrong but thats what I got from what you said. Now from here on out I believe we need to come up with solutions to stop labs from peddling 7n ower home. Iam up for anything in the idea department. Sorry millard it took me a while to understand or better yet read what you were actually trying to say.

 

[Fckit]

Naps himself is. Not his multiple sales reps though. He just doesn't do the dirty work himself.

Look, I agree about the scoc. I agree about not buddying up with sources. I'm perfectly fine with no sources at Meso. I'm just apparently more concerned than most about the potential outcome of what happens when we try to 'eliminate' these sources without some form of moderation (and I don't want moderation).

I like to believe I've always been a team player when it comes to sources on Meso (minus bio), and I will continue up to be. I just want it put down for the record that when you force these guys into hiding, there will be some Shady shit going on behind the scenes. That shadiness will breed serious distrust amongst members eventually.

Regardless, I'm down.

Naps is doing it.

 

[Fckit]

Is there a way too deny sources pm privileges? Keeping the transactions completely off the board would not prevent us from discussing the source and giving them a chance to defend their positions if posts are critical. It would be up to the members to guide fellow members from posting T/A times and other stupid dick riding comments. We could shape the culture by redirecting conversations to reviews, whether positive or negative.

Sources would have the opportunity to respond and offer explanations or even share their experiences regarding topics other than the sale of their products.
It's us that needs to change. Not the forum. The basic forum was originally created to not provide a source forum, but to discuss the ways of the underground.

^^^^ This may solve my issues

 

[Mr.Bravo]

Naps himself is. Not his multiple sales reps though. He just doesn't do the dirty work himself.

Look, I agree about the scoc. I agree about not buddying up with sources. I'm perfectly fine with no sources at Meso. I'm just apparently more concerned than most about the potential outcome of what happens when we try to 'eliminate' these sources without some form of moderation (and I don't want moderation).

I like to believe I've always been a team player when it comes to sources on Meso (minus bio), and I will continue up to be. I just want it put down for the record that when you force these guys into hiding, there will be some Shady shit going on behind the scenes. That shadiness will breed serious distrust amongst members eventually.

Regardless, I'm down.

I have the same concerns.

 

[Fckit]

So now that my concerns are noted, I'll get on with it.

We've discussed a member code of conduct. I'm sort of on this page with a few exceptions. First off, I think this would be a terrible name for a thread that members would perceive as more rules and BS I don't need to read (looking from a new member perspective that is ready to fondle cock for a source). I like the ideal of a sticky written by a member that explains how we try to operate at Meso regarding sources. Title it something clever. I wish there was a way to direct all new sign ups attempting to access the underground to this thread. What better way to change the culture than have new members read and certify that they understand how we act around here? Especially regarding reporting any pm's sent by other 'members' attempting to sell a product.

 

[Kinikuman]

The scoc does the same thing. It says if you do this, this and this you ate "vetted" and welcome here - its like letting the stray cat out of the cold and into your house. You now have a new cat that may tear up your house and shit everywhere.

Personally, I never looked at the SCOC as a mean of "vetting" sourcing, nor did I think that just because a source had met the SCOC that they were GTG, if there is such a thing. What I saw it as, and I still do; a set of minimum requirements that ANY source must meet if they are to openly be allowed a thread in the underground as a sales channel. It was also still clearer to me that ALL sources have problems at some point. Some minor, some major. Never at any point did it seem to me that any of the sources were "welcome". A few have gathered many eunuchs, but all have their detractors.

My experience has been that my own children have been far more destructive than any strays that I or my wife have brought home. I think that may be the case here at MESO, too. It's not the animals we let in the house, it's the behavior of our kids around them that causes such rancor.

 

[Millard]

I am, as I am sure most are, tired of these no name sources coming here to take advantage of members. The SCOC was implemented with the intent of providing a bit of protection
for members. It has done so to an extent. I believe that experiment has ran its course.

I like the idea of a member code of conduct. After this discussion, I don't believe it's completely necessary though. Read this and the scoc thread and they should be well on their way to navigating the market of under dosed/bunk gear.

For those that have doubts about us being able to come together and push the sources out of here don't realize the power we as members actually hold.

I'd rather login to Meso and discuss diet, training, and the safe effective way to use AAS than berate a new source into posting requirements every week. Especially when those requirements won't lessen the liklihood of the source jeopardizing member safety and running off with members money.

Just my thoughts

I think the SCOC was targeted to the wrong group. It should have been targeted at MEMBERS instead of sources.

It should never have been marketed as a list of requirements for new sources to met in order to be vetted, approved, allowed or permitted to "do business" on MESO. The way it was written had the unintended effect of encouraging new source to spam the forum and use it as a sales platform.

It should have been marketed as an educational tool to teach members the best questions to ask about sources. A few tweaks in the title and introduction would have made all the difference and it could have evolved from there:

OLD NAME: Source Code of Conduct (SCoC)

NEW NAME: Member Code of Conduct (MCoC)

Myself and a few others have been working on a new SCOC MCoC to encompass the necessary requirements recommended member guidelines for questions to ask sources to ensure as little scamming as possible. We think these should be member driven requirements questions. We all enforce this together so all of us should have a say in what goes into it. If you have an idea to improve upon what we have so far, feel free to speak up. Let's not turn this into a pissing contest. We will all benefit from an open discussion but flaming each other will be counterproductive. Any ideas are welcomed.

**********DO NOT POST LIST UNTIL THESE REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN SATISFIED**********​

​

*****SOURCES WILL HAVE 24 HOURS TO COMPLY WITH ALL ITEMS*****​

 

[flenser]

OK, here's the first question I would ask.

Q: How do you test your supplier's products?

Unacceptable answers: "I trust my supplier", "My supplier tests for me", "I have great feedback from other customers", "I use my products myself", "I Labmax every batch".

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

I'm thoroughly disgusted at the direction this discussion has taken. It seems I've given the members more credit than they deserve.

Now we've got several identical threads going on the same topic but half the participants still don't understand what the discussion is about, yet they're expounding in great detail on what must be done. A few are literally pleading for someone in authority to tell them what to think and do. More than a few aren't even reading the posts before replying. At least one clown seems to think Brutus and I are "selling" something.

This discussion wasn't meant to be about sources. It wasn't even meant to be about changing Meso. As previously mentioned, it was about a cultural shift; i.e., changing how members *perceive* Meso in order to make Meso a better forum. Prior to this discussion, I had no doubt that was an achievable goal. Now I'm not so sure it's even possible. I feel like we're trying to polish a turd.

CBS
Disillusioned

 

[pumpingiron22]

 

[curgen]

Sounds good.

I have to admit, I haven't read even half of these threads that have managed to burst forth in the last few days. The "votes" are positively absurd, given that Millard (the only one with any authority around here) hasn't given anyone any indication that I'm aware of that any results of such votes will be enforced one way or the other. We may as well be taking a boxers or briefs poll, because the results are absolutely meaningless. There is no mechanism by which it can be imposed. That people are even voting yes or no seems to indicate a fundamental lack of understanding as to how this is supposed to work. This isn't an oligarchy nor a democracy. It's much closer to anarchy, if anything.

You want to tell a source that they have to pack up an bail? Go ahead, but don't expect the rest of the board, with their varied and diverse opinions, to back you up.

Same goes for holding sources to the SCOC. Although I think it's ineffective and at times counter-productive, if you want to brow-beat sources on compliance, by all means, go ahead. But bear in mind that it has never, nor will it ever, truly prevent any misbehavior. Compliance is optional.

@CensoredBoardsSuck - I haven't read anything out of you yet that I disagree with.

curgen
Equally dismayed

 

[Kinikuman]

I'm thoroughly disgusted at the direction this discussion has taken. It seems I've given the members more credit than they deserve.

Now we've got several identical threads going on the same topic but half the participants still don't understand what the discussion is about, yet they're expounding in great detail on what must be done. A few are literally pleading for someone in authority to tell them what to think and do. More than a few aren't even reading the posts before replying. At least one clown seems to think Brutus and I are "selling" something.

This discussion wasn't meant to be about sources. It wasn't even meant to be about changing Meso. As previously mentioned, it was about a cultural shift; i.e., changing how members *perceive* Meso in order to make Meso a better forum. Prior to this discussion, I had no doubt that was an achievable goal. Now I'm not so sure it's even possible. I feel like we're trying to polish a turd.

CBS
Disillusioned

I've said before and will say again that real cultural change takes real time. No need to be disillusioned. Just temper the expectations. It won't happen overnight and a single thread will not accomplish the goal. The desired behavior must first be modeled by those most visible / respected on the board before we can expect the masses to follow.

 

[Big_paul]

Naps himself is. Not his multiple sales reps though. He just doesn't do the dirty work himself.

Look, I agree about the scoc. I agree about not buddying up with sources. I'm perfectly fine with no sources at Meso. I'm just apparently more concerned than most about the potential outcome of what happens when we try to 'eliminate' these sources without some form of moderation (and I don't want moderation).

I like to believe I've always been a team player when it comes to sources on Meso (minus bio), and I will continue up to be. I just want it put down for the record that when you force these guys into hiding, there will be some Shady shit going on behind the scenes. That shadiness will breed serious distrust amongst members eventually.

Regardless, I'm down.

Bro there will always be some shady shit going on behind the scene here at meso, and unless Millard reads our pm's that isn't going to change.

If a new members get pm's from sources, they should be encouraged to go public. That's all we can do realistically. Information.

I don't care what we do, suckers are still going to lose their money.

 

[Fckit]

Bro there will always be some shady shit going on behind the scene here at meso, and unless Millard reads our pm's that isn't going to change.

If a new members get pm's from sources, they should be encouraged to go public. That's all we can do realistically. Information.

I don't care what we do, suckers are still going to lose their money.

No, I agree. I meant the scammers that would resort to pm to push gear. Educate. I would just rather keep these fucks out in the open

 

[hardbodygirl]

I don't know whether secret sourcing is prevalent on Meso at the moment or not but what I do know is the perception members have for what the underground forum is supposed to be has slowly changed for the worse. For all intents and purposes, it's now viewed by too many as a source forum rather than a forum to discuss sources.

I think most of the blame for both of these problems can be placed on the SCOC for a couple of reasons.

First, the trend over the last year or so has been for members, particularly the newer ones, to use Meso primarily as a source forum because that is how they perceive it. We may tell new members that Meso isn't a source forum; that its purpose is to give them an uncensored forum where they can discuss sources. But when they see WKMs referring new sources to the SCOC, what are they to think? Why have a SCOC if Meso isn't a source forum? Due to the illegal nature of AAS and the need for discretion, when inexperienced members are told Meso isn't a source forum and then see sources being asked to comply with the SCOC, I suspect what they actually hear is "Meso isn't a source forum, wink, wink." When these junior members become senior members, the cycle will continue.

Secondly, rather than being used as a tool to vet sources, the SCOC is forcing sources into selling secretly. There's no question about that and we've already seen evidence that this is happening.

IMO, it's time to abandon the SCOC. It has failed to serve its purpose and it's causing more harm than good.

Regarding the perception that this is a source forum, how do we change it? I've seen some calling to rid Meso of all sources. Personally, I don't think we need to go that far. I don't have an issue with members having direct access to *established* sources on Meso - and by established I mean sources that have been around longer than a couple of years. Being established isn't a guarantee of quality as we've seen recently, but the odds of getting scammed outright are far lower.

What I think needs to change is the idea that these start-up bathtub brewers who have no experience and are only here because they managed to score a bag of powder and now think they're going to be the next drug kingpin deserve a shot. They don't deserve a shot. And that includes any members that might have started brewing and "secretly" selling. Start-ups are the kind of source the SCOC was designed to vet, the kind most likely to sell bunk gear, and the kind most likely to take the money and run. They have no business being here. They are using/abusing Meso's underground because it's free. With nothing invested, they have nothing to lose. And with nothing to lose, there's nothing to stop them from running off with your money.

What's even worse than the start-ups are the members (who should know better) that say these clowns should be given a chance because "someone has to try them." Well, no. No one has to try them. And no one should try them. Why members would even consider using high-risk start-up sources is beyond me. It's not just a question of being scammed, you're putting your health in jeopardy. And for what? A source who will be long gone in less than 6 months?

As far as I'm concerned, the SCOC is redundant. It was designed to give *non-viable* sources a chance they neither deserve, nor should get. It serves no purpose other than creating the impression that Meso is a source forum. In short, it's dragging the underground down.

The underground is an invaluable resource for members when used as intended. Allowing these clowns here is going to destroy it. It's time for members to stop fucking around and start thinking about the greater good. It's not about you finding a source. It was never about that.

Regards

CBS

I'm probably the last person on this board to agree with what you're saying, especially since most of what you've said which was directed at me was practically 100% straight up bullshit! But i think this is one of the smartest things i've read... since first coming to this board a couple months ago! And before i get flamed out here... i'm sure there are plenty of other intelligent discussions here i've not had the chance to read yet! But this is a very good analogy
CBS! Just sayin...

 

[Moose]

I'm probably the last person on this board to agree with what you're saying, especially since most of what you've said which was directed at me was practically 100% straight up bullshit! But i think this is one of the smartest things i've read... since first coming to this board a couple months ago! And before i get flamed out here... i'm sure there are plenty of other intelligent discussions here i've not had the chance to read yet! But this is a very good analogy
CBS! Just sayin...

Oh shit. Hardbody and CBS are of the same mind. Is he apocalypse coming???

 

[brutus79]

Oh shit. Hardbody and CBS are of the same mind. Is he apocalypse coming???

She is trying to be more amicable now that she sources through pm. Pm's were reported to Millard- enjoy her while she is still here... It ain't gonna last.

 

[Marcus]

She is trying to be more amicable now that she sources through pm. Pm's were reported to Millard- enjoy her while she is still here... It ain't gonna last.

Hmmmm, and here i thought she was just tryin to suck as much digital dick as possible with no motive

 

[MoriorInvictus]

I still don't think it's even a chick.

Prob just a dude with really high Estrogen levels....