Sema/Thriz/Reta choices

[Here2Learn]

Currently I’m on Sema, up to 1.25mg/week and have been losing an average of 1lb/week or less. I started at a medspa, just shifted to Skye and now researching China direct. My inflammation can vary widely so the scale jumps all over the place. Sema has helped with inflammation and I’m looking into running BPC/TB for. 6-8 week protocol to see if it helps more and than a series of Thymosin Alpha 1 after that.

My question is with the lower pricing of China direct Tirz/Reta is more affordable so it has become and option. Sema makes me SO tired and I feel like some weeks it works really well and other weeks not as much. If you were to change what would you choose? I’ve researched all of them pretty extensively so I know the pro/cons but looking for people who have switched and what they liked or don’t like.

 

[SubparMarioBro]

commercials warn you about a lot

They’re gonna have to put a prop 65 warning on my casket.

 

[xrayphoton13]

I've primarily used pharma of both. 15mg of Zepbound doesn't come close to the appetite suppression of 2:4mg Wegovy for me.

However, Zepbound (tirz) is easier to live with.

Perhaps I have greater resistance to tirz due to drug neutralizing antibodies, because according to the trials tirz should result in greater loss, and for me, it definitely does not.

This could explain a lot for the difference between my wife and I. Tirzepatide was a life changer for me. I went from 300 lbs down to 190 in less than a year. The biggest things it did for me was to kill my appetite, kill my food addiction, and to make me lose interest in alcohol. All the sudden anything with alcohol tasted funny and the buzz was no longer enjoyable. More of a light throbbing headache really. And even if I did feel hungry food just tasted dull. It lost that rich satisfying flavor, as if all the salt and spices were removed from everything. Luckily it lasted for at least those first 6-7 months when the majority of my weight came off. Now I can drink alcohol again although I do limit myself to once a week or two weeks. And food only tastes bland the first day or two after a shot. Not 5-6 days like before.

My wife saw my progress and wanted to try so she started herself on compounded tirzepatide but only lost around 20 lbs and it's been a few years now with no further weight reduction. I thought maybe the compounded tirzepatide was the problem so I tried it and couldn't tell a difference between it and my mounjaro. So maybe she is like you. I might have her try semaglutide then. She hated retatrutide. Tried it for 3 weeks and said she felt sick and disgusting the whole time

 

[Ghoul]

This could explain a lot for the difference between my wife and I. Tirzepatide was a life changer for me. I went from 300 lbs down to 190 in less than a year. The biggest things it did for me was to kill my appetite, kill my food addiction, and to make me lose interest in alcohol. All the sudden anything with alcohol tasted funny and the buzz was no longer enjoyable. More of a light throbbing headache really. And even if I did feel hungry food just tasted dull. It lost that rich satisfying flavor, as if all the salt and spices were removed from everything. Luckily it lasted for at least those first 6-7 months when the majority of my weight came off. Now I can drink alcohol again although I do limit myself to once a week or two weeks. And food only tastes bland the first day or two after a shot. Not 5-6 days like before.

My wife saw my progress and wanted to try so she started herself on compounded tirzepatide but only lost around 20 lbs and it's been a few years now with no further weight reduction. I thought maybe the compounded tirzepatide was the problem so I tried it and couldn't tell a difference between it and my mounjaro. So maybe she is like you. I might have her try semaglutide then. She hated retatrutide. Tried it for 3 weeks and said she felt sick and disgusting the whole time

Yeah I've completely lost interest in alcohol. Was never a big drinker but now it's repellant. Cannibis too.

On Wegovy weight loss became excessive, a battle to maintain proper weight, While on Zepbound 15mg, my "maintenance dose" I have no appetite reduction at a weight just slightly above my ideal, It may be beneficial, to have not too strong of an effect on appetite as the degree of other health benefits seem to correlate with dose (so being able to handle higher doses may be desirable). My partner can't go above 7.5mg tirz, for instance. That's assuming the weaker response is limited to appetite suppression and not the drug being removed more quickly.

If it is related to drug neutralizing antibodies, which TLDR speed up the removal of the drug, effectively reducing its efficacy, it is possible to have them to tirz and not sema. An earlier study showed they are unrelated. IE high levels of antibodies to one did not result in faster clearance of the other.

I have tried adding a small dose of Sema, on a different day of the week, since I had hit the limits of Tirz. .25mg destroyed me. Absolutely crushed my ability to eat anything, and major side effects. Took me by surprise, as I had been on 2.4mg before. Tried .10mg the following week, was still too much.

 

[xrayphoton13]

Yeah I've completely lost interest in alcohol. Was never a big drinker but now it's repellant. Cannibis too.

On Wegovy weight loss became excessive, a battle to maintain proper weight, While on Zepbound 15mg, my "maintenance dose" I have no appetite reduction at a weight just slightly above my ideal, It may be beneficial, to have not too strong of an effect on appetite as the degree of other health benefits seem to correlate with dose (so being able to handle higher doses may be desirable). My partner can't go above 7.5mg tirz, for instance. That's assuming the weaker response is limited to appetite suppression and not the drug being removed more quickly.

If it is related to drug neutralizing antibodies, which TLDR speed up the removal of the drug, effectively reducing its efficacy, it is possible to have them to tirz and not sema. An earlier study showed they are unrelated. IE high levels of antibodies to one did not result in faster clearance of the other.

I have tried adding a small dose of Sema, on a different day of the week, since I had hit the limits of Tirz. .25mg destroyed me. Absolutely crushed my ability to eat anything, and major side effects. Took me by surprise, as I had been on 2.4mg before. Tried .10mg the following week, was still too much.

Wow. Yeah maybe I'll try this approach too. Try some sema mid week. I just saw tirzepatide was approved for sleep apnea and insurance companies are now more likely to approve glp1s than they used to be. I don't think I would qualify anymore for weight loss since I lost all this weight but I wonder if I could get approved for sleep apnea. I'm not even sure I have it but my father and sister do and my wife says I snore. Plus I do wake up every hour or every two hours to pee. I've heard that can be a sign. I may pursue a sleep study just to see. Would be nice if I didn't have to worry about where to get glp1s for the rest of my life. I really like the cardiac and Alzheimer's prevention benefits I've read about. Both my grandparents died from Alzheimer's so I definitely worry about it. My dad and his mom were type 2 diabetics and have had several heart bypass surgeries

 

[Ghoul]

Wow. Yeah maybe I'll try this approach too. Try some sema mid week. I just saw tirzepatide was approved for sleep apnea and insurance companies are now more likely to approve glp1s than they used to be. I don't think I would qualify anymore for weight loss since I lost all this weight but I wonder if I could get approved for sleep apnea. I'm not even sure I have it but my father and sister do and my wife says I snore. Plus I do wake up every hour or every two hours to pee. I've heard that can be a sign. I may pursue a sleep study just to see. Would be nice if I didn't have to worry about where to get glp1s for the rest of my life. I really like the cardiac and Alzheimer's prevention benefits I've read about. Both my grandparents died from Alzheimer's so I definitely worry about it. My dad and his mom were type 2 diabetics and have had several heart bypass surgeries

Even the insurance companies that pulled coverage for GLPs used to treat obesity, like Colorado just announced for their state employee plan, will continue to cover Zepbound for Sleep Apnea.

You do have to have a BMI of at least 27 (vs 30 for strictly weight loss approval).

If I were within 10-15 pounds of 27 BMI and needed that for coverage, I'd consider putting that weight on just for coverage purposes, since once you're approved, you're pretty much good forever, and can likely even switch to newer generation GLPs as they become available,

First familiarize yourself with your insurance company's pre authorization requirements, if you want to DM me the name of your plan I can get that to you. If they cover, next step is the test for Obstructive Sleep Apnea, the sleep study. Then you'll probably have to try at least one other way to treat it. That's easy enough to "fail" after whatever amount of time you're required to give it.

It really does suck for those who now have coverage, but were using UGL and now no longer qualify, UGL was a nice option, but pharma is really much better for the long term, and no worries about getting your hands on a reliable, cheap, safe supply, as well as easy access to future generations of GLPs,

 

[xrayphoton13]

Even the insurance companies that pulled coverage for GLPs used to treat obesity, like Colorado just announced for their state employee plan, will continue to cover Zepbound for Sleep Apnea.

You do have to have a BMI of at least 27 (vs 30 for strictly weight loss approval).

If I were within 10-15 pounds of 27 BMI and needed that for coverage, I'd consider putting that weight on just for coverage purposes, since once you're approved, you're pretty much good forever, and can likely even switch to newer generation GLPs as they become available,

First familiarize yourself with your insurance company's pre authorization requirements, if you want to DM me the name of your plan I can get that to you. If they cover, next step is the test for Obstructive Sleep Apnea, the sleep study. Then you'll probably have to try at least one other way to treat it. That's easy enough to "fail" after whatever amount of time you're required to give it.

It really does suck for those who now have coverage, but were using UGL and now no longer qualify, UGL was a nice option, but pharma is really much better for the long term, and no worries about getting your hands on a reliable, cheap, safe supply, as well as easy access to future generations of GLPs,

Well my BMI is currently 28 at 15% bodyfat so I'm in a good spot to start. Let me find my plan info and I can message you. Thanks!

 

[Ghoul]

Well my BMI is currently 28 at 15% bodyfat so I'm in a good spot to start. Let me find my plan info and I can message you. Thanks!

Perfect. I'll say this though, no joke, the clinical definition of Obesity is about to change, and with that BF you may no longer qualify if insurance companies quickly adopt the new standard (they likely will, many people will no longer be considered obese under the new guidelines).

So don't let any grass grow under your feet, I'd make that sleep clinic appt ASAP, because it usually takes a while,

 

[Anat]

Perfect. I'll say this though, no joke, the clinical definition of Obesity is about to change, and with that BF you may no longer qualify if insurance companies quickly adopt the new standard (they likely will, many people will no longer be considered obese under the new guidelines).

So don't let any grass grow under your feet, I'd make that sleep clinic appt ASAP, because it usually takes a while,

Quick question: if I don’t need to lose weight and 5 mg of Tirz is basically working well for me, would you advise staying on that dosage, or should I follow the research approach and move up to 7.5 mg for a month and then 10 mg?

 

[glpfun]

Quick question: if I don’t need to lose weight and 5 mg of Tirz is basically working well for me, would you advise staying on that dosage, or should I follow the research approach and move up to 7.5 mg for a month and then 10 mg?

What are you hoping to get out of it by increasing the dose when you aren’t trying to lose weight and it’s working well?

 

[BamaCrazy]

Quick question: if I don’t need to lose weight and 5 mg of Tirz is basically working well for me, would you advise staying on that dosage, or should I follow the research approach and move up to 7.5 mg for a month and then 10 mg?

If you are not losing or gaining, and you don’t want to lose more, you’ve found your maintenance dose. I’d stick with 5. I’m at 8mg Reta as a maintenance dose. Keeps me from pigging out and helps with blood glucose.

 

[Ghoul]

Quick question: if I don’t need to lose weight and 5 mg of Tirz is basically working well for me, would you advise staying on that dosage, or should I follow the research approach and move up to 7.5 mg for a month and then 10 mg?

If you never had noticeable appetite reduction on 5mg, it may be below your "maintenance dose", and you could certainly try 7.5, then 10. If undesirable appetite suppression develops, just drop back down the following week. If you need to gain weight, or just want some more appetite for a vacation, drop the dose two weeks in advance.

If you do happen to gain weight on the maintenance dose, expect appetite suppression, and possibly sides to return until your weight falls back to where it was.

 

[Ghoul]

If you are not losing or gaining, and you don’t want to lose more, you’ve found your maintenance dose. I’d stick with 5. I’m at 8mg Reta as a maintenance dose. Keeps me from pigging out and helps with blood glucose.

That's true unless you never lost weight on a given dose to begin with. I know guys who had no noticeable effect until they got to 10mg Tirz. So for instance, 5mg was below their "maintenance dose".

 

[Ghoul]

If you are not losing or gaining, and you don’t want to lose more, you’ve found your maintenance dose. I’d stick with 5. I’m at 8mg Reta as a maintenance dose. Keeps me from pigging out and helps with blood glucose.

Greater reduction of systemic inflammation, more neuroprotection. increased potential cognitive / psychological benefits from improved brain insulin sensitivity, more liver fat elimination, etc, all appear to benefit from higher doses. Not dropping below ideal weight is the limiting factor.

 

[Middus]

Quick question: if I don’t need to lose weight and 5 mg of Tirz is basically working well for me, would you advise staying on that dosage, or should I follow the research approach and move up to 7.5 mg for a month and then 10 mg?

What works works. No point in increasing dosage

 

[glpfun]

@Ghoul do you know of any studies that talk about stacking these drugs or a study with generalizable info that could be applied? In the peptide chat channels there are a lot of people stacking and micro dosing and swear by it

 

[Anat]

What are you hoping to get out of it by increasing the dose when you aren’t trying to lose weight and it’s working well?

I’m thinking of increasing my Tirz dose from 5mg to 7.5mg because it has benefits beyond weight loss. Higher doses can improve insulin sensitivity, blood sugar control, and even help with cholesterol and cardiovascular health. There’s also some evidence that GLP-1 medications might reduce inflammation and even support brain health long-term. I just want to see if a higher dose enhances these effects further.

 

[Anat]

If you never had noticeable appetite reduction on 5mg, it may be below your "maintenance dose", and you could certainly try 7.5, then 10. If undesirable appetite suppression develops, just drop back down the following week. If you need to gain weight, or just want some more appetite for a vacation, drop the dose two weeks in advance.

If you do happen to gain weight on the maintenance dose, expect appetite suppression, and possibly sides to return until your weight falls back to where it was.

Thank you, sir, for the detailed response, as always, much appreciated!

 

[glpfun]

I’m thinking of increasing my Tirz dose from 5mg to 7.5mg because it has benefits beyond weight loss. Higher doses can improve insulin sensitivity, blood sugar control, and even help with cholesterol and cardiovascular health. There’s also some evidence that GLP-1 medications might reduce inflammation and even support brain health long-term. I just want to see if a higher dose enhances these effects further.

Makes sense, might be cool to get some labs before and after to see how much, that data would be most welcome

 

[Ghoul]

@Ghoul do you know of any studies that talk about stacking these drugs or a study with generalizable info that could be applied? In the peptide chat channels there are a lot of people stacking and micro dosing and swear by it

First, there are no formal studies of stacking or micro dosing GLPs.

Generally however, we know the following;

More frequent injections of proteins, called "exposure events", tends to increase the strength of immune response than less frequent injections. When immunogenicity is measured in the pharma trials, it's based on once weekly dosing. Splitting into daily doses could increase immunity development from "not clinically significant" to a problem.

That's why vaccines, essentially peptides/proteins engineered to maximize immunogenicity, are often split into multiple injections over weeks or months. Multiple exposure events "train" the immune system more effectively so there's a stronger destructive response to a similar looking (disease) protein it may encounter in the future vs a single larger dose,

Stacking could cause unknown issues, but in my opinion the biggest risk comes
from combining multiple peptides in one syringe or container, For various reasons, that's insane, and is an indicator the people doing this have no idea what they're dealing with or the risks they're exposing themselves to.

The other issue I'd ask is why? Did they follow the pharma protocol and not lose sufficient weight like 95%+ of participants in trials did? Are these "miracle" drugs, providing weight loss so rapid muscle loss is an issue, not fast enough? What's the potential gain from turning yourself into a lab rat?

Peptide/protein therapeutics are nothing like AAS and other "small molecule" drugs, There are potential risks that can destroy you, and not develop for a decade or more. A large part of the reason protein based drugs cost billions to develop is the effort expended managing the unique risks these compounds present. 75% never make it past the first small scale clinical trials, frequently because of danger signals caught early on.

 

[Juiced_lizard]

I’ve tried the microdosing ( I did injections every 3 days) and I swear the once every week does better. Also I messed with different amounts of bac water and @Ghoul is right. .50ml works best. I was just trying it more so as an experiment. Lot of talk about different ways of reinventing the wheel but I think if it works for someone then so be it.