MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
TBH I didn't read it all/slowlyHey guys. I don't how much attention a newbie post can get, but I have huge respect for this forum as it's the only one with actual doctors on board and other very knowledgeable members. So i'd really appreciate anybody with experience looking into this very confusing problem (i'm going to be thorough in explaining please excuse the long post):
Since 2015 I've done about 4 cycles consisting mostly of short-ester compounds. But regardless what compounds I use, all the cycles followed exactly the same problematic pattern that I'm going to outline below. I'll use my last cycle as an example which went from Mid January to Mid April 2017, consisted of Test Prop: 500mg/wk, Tren Ace: 350mg/wk, Deca-NPP cocktail: 300mg/wk (I do give the Prop a 5-7 day headstart before adding other compounds).
- During the first 7-12 days I experience all the full force of being 'on.' My muscles fill up, skin feels tighter and veins are popping and you can feel the nitrogen retention doing its thing, and that mind-muscle connection in the gym is helping me lift all sorts of weights. I call this the honeymoon phase.
- After that short-lived honeymoon phase, my body literally begins to rapidly deflate... the effect is almost instant after a night's sleep. I even start to LOSE some weight even while I'm on and eating the same if not more calories.
- My skin loses tightness, my muscles become extremely soft and extremely flat. I feel like there's no nitrogen retention whatsoever as there aren't even any veins. After hours of research I discovered that it seems that my symptoms are consistent with glycogen depletion, aka not enough glycogen in your muscle cells.
- I was a little shocked because my diet is carb heavy. I don't accurately count macros but when I did I'm somewhere around 300-500g of carbs, 200-300g of fat and 250-350 g of protein. I eat a cup of rice a day, 2 cups of pure oats, smoked salmon sandwiches, nutella and PB sandwiches, 1 banana, 200 g of greek yogurt, 1 chicken breast or 1 steak, a couple of 50g protein shakes with milk are all part of my daily regimen.
- I did more research and learned that when you're on gear (especially Tren) it can cause your body to burn through its glycogen stores at a much faster rate (although keep in mind I've felt these symptoms during previous non-Tren cycles). So i tried to eat more and bought one of those pre-/post-workout carb supplements like Vitargo to flush the muscle with fuel before workouts.
- But all that did is cause me to grow out my gut a lot, nothing was going into my muscles they felt as empty as they did before i ate, and i was bloated in the stomach almost all day. So i tried to troubleshoot that problem ... !
- From research it seemed to me that my body seems unable to transport the glycogen into the muscle, and that can be caused by a variety of reasons including not enough sodium/electrolytes in your diet or being insulin-RESISTANT. As in your body doesn't let the insulin do its job.
- Also I should mention at this point that I also ruled out any E2 related correlations. I tried both lowering my E2 with maxing my dose of Arimidex or Aromasin (1mg/25mg) every other day to using no AI and experiencing gyno related symptoms with no change in anabolic effect. Should also add that I still experience the full androgenic effects of being on including hair growth, receding hair line and an annoyingly overly excited sex drive (my and my girlfriend are long distance hence why it can be annoying)
- I bought sodium/potassium/magnesium electrolyte supplements and got my hands on pre-diabetes medication Glucophage (Metformin HCl) that is used for insulin resistant people and those prone to diabetes to help them keep their blood sugar levels in check in addition to other host of benefits. The effect of the added electrolytes were non existent. I took 500mg of Metformin 2x a day after meals and the effects were underwhelming, mostly I feel attributed to placebo, although the bloat in the stomach area did subside!
- At this point guys I have to admit I'm at a point of complete and total despair. It honestly starts to seriously depress me and I give up. I should mention now that increasing the doses doesn't work, if anything it makes things worse psychologically having to shoot 1.5-2 g of oils with nothing to show for.
- Everytime this happens, usually around the 2.5-3 month mark, I dropped all the other gear (cause they weren't doing anything) and kept the Test P at 750 mg/week and added oral Winstrol at 50mg/day to try and finish off the cycle strong and harden up. And at this point, i finally start to see SOME results.
- It seems that my body responds well to Winstrol. I start to harden up and see some strength gains etc. But nothing crazy. I mostly feel the Winstrol is making the Test more effective by binding to the SHGB. So I run that protocol of Test and Winny for no more than 8 weeks (esp cause Winstrol is not mild on the liver) before I go into PCT mode.
NOW HERE'S THE INTERESTING BIT:
- All 3-4 times this pattern happened, only when i drop all gear and begin using HCG (I use Michael Scully's PCT protocol which consists of 10 shots of 2000 ius every other day, clomid 100mg/day + nolva 40mg/day) - that my body undergoes phenomenal changes.
- It's when my strength is at it's highest and I'm breaking new PRs. My skin gets even tighter, my muscles are full and ripped and the mind-muscle connection is restored.
- These benefits extend well past a month from the last HCG injection, before my body starts to gradually taper back down to how it is in 'natty' mode.
- The benefits of having your HPTA somewhat in running order (HCG still shuts down LH) and restoring testicular function on mood and dopamine are well established in science. So i thought maybe that my body relies more on testicular function than others. I deduced that that's why I experience the full force of the gear in the first 12 days, that then disappear once my body is in "official" shut-down mode.
- This prompted me to use HCG half way during my last cycle at 750iu/week. Again the benefits experienced were minimal and were mostly consistent with just having more Test in your system. And still nothing, only when I come off do I even begin to feel that I'm on.
- In conclusion this is leading me to believe i have some kind of steroids-induced insulin resistance or steroid-induced diabetes, but that goes against all literature on AAS from increased nitrogen retention to ramped up protein synthesis.
- Two weeks ago i hopped on a new cycle, and planned to run a low dose, not looking for size gains just quality and performance. I front loaded the first week with Test Prop at 350 mg/wk, then carrying on with Test Cyp at 250 mg/wk only, in addition to the 400mg of Tren Ace and 400 mg of NPP. And unfortunately I'm experiencing the exact same problem. I don't want to resort to using an oral during this cycle cause I already did twice in the last year and I want to give my liver a break, as the Tren is already known to exert some pressure on it.
- Finally I should also mention that I take about 8 g of Creatine Mono/HCl, and 8 g of L-Arginine a day. In addition to BCAAs supplement Purple Wraath from Controlled Labs intra-workouts.
The frustrating thing is it's not that I don't know my body can perform or reach a certain level, i know it can cause it has at certain times but it doesnt last. I just need to unlock something, something i'm missing!
Can anyone take an educated guess at what the hell is going on?? I appreciate taking the time to read this. Thank you in advance.
I will be adding hCG soon but at a 1000iu/wk and will report back. Thanks!
I have before and they're the only ones that seem to work, with a moderate dose of Stana. I'm going to switch back to just Test and NPP to see if the Tren is the one causing havoc, before I drop the NPP as well if I see no improvement. In the meantime I'm seeing the endo today to draw blood
I mean how much lower than 350 mg of Tren A can you go? The gear would have to be 100% pure for you to see decent results.
I will be adding hCG soon but at a 1000iu/wk and will report back. Thanks!
Highly agree, even if you think your eating enough...eat more. I was around 3500 calories a day while on tren and felt depleted/no pump. I added another 1000 calories to my diet and within a few day things felt right.
