Simplicity, consistency, accountability

[Trenbolonetax]

Epitalon and pinealon, I'll read up! Thanks Brother! You ever try delta-sleep inducing peptide? I haven't but it sounds intriguing. I have to admit I'm leary of any compounds which promote sleep, IMO all the ones which have worked eventually came with a price, but maybe these are different?

I've tried DSIP...did nothing for me.

I think it's a good idea to exercise caution with compounds that help sleep. I think I would be most comfortable trying a GHRH to help sleep just due to the mechanism of action.

Dude I know who wears an oura ring shows he more than doubled REM just using pinealon. He's not on anything else other than TRT, however.

Having said this...I need to go source this.

I'll try to read up more on the secretagogues, I kinda just jumped straight to GH without looking into the alternatives. But there seem to be advantages and disadvantages to both.

Perhaps an uninformed opinion...but if you're looking to max out natural potential pulsatile GH? Makes sense to go secretagogue route.

If you're looking to go above and beyond? Makes sense to go rHGH route.

Is there an intelligent method to combine both on some type of alternating schedule? Perhaps, and that is somewhat intriguing to me. I may have to experiment with that after this blast.

Yeah I noticed degradation of sleep quality immediately upon starting the testosterone, even at 100 mg/wk. It was undeniable. Every time I change doses it seems to get worse lol, though eventually my body seems to adjust and settle into the new level.

I figured that telmisartan had that effect, that and it's cardioprotective effects were why I chose to implement it. I'm on such a baby dose though, not entirely sure if it's doing anything. It definitely did not change my BP, not even a smidge. Come in right at 120/80 basically every single morning, no matter how puffy I am and no matter if I used telmisartan and/or tadalafil. I can pull them or add them any time and bp doesn't change

It was the cardioprotective + insulin sensitizing + PPAR modulation that had me going towards telmisartan when looking to get onto a BP med. Apparently going from 250lbs to 280lbs in short course and stuffing your face with food to gain / maintain weight for football isn't good for your BP, lol.

But the thought process is if I'm going to need to use a BP med, I'd like to use the one with the most upside and I still believe that to be telmisartan.

 

[twreck555]

I've tried DSIP...did nothing for me.

I think it's a good idea to exercise caution with compounds that help sleep. I think I would be most comfortable trying a GHRH to help sleep just due to the mechanism of action.

Dude I know who wears an oura ring shows he more than doubled REM just using pinealon. He's not on anything else other than TRT, however.

Having said this...I need to go source this.


Perhaps an uninformed opinion...but if you're looking to max out natural potential pulsatile GH? Makes sense to go secretagogue route.

If you're looking to go above and beyond? Makes sense to go rHGH route.

Is there an intelligent method to combine both on some type of alternating schedule? Perhaps, and that is somewhat intriguing to me. I may have to experiment with that after this blast.


It was the cardioprotective + insulin sensitizing + PPAR modulation that had me going towards telmisartan when looking to get onto a BP med. Apparently going from 250lbs to 280lbs in short course and stuffing your face with food to gain / maintain weight for football isn't good for your BP, lol.

But the thought process is if I'm going to need to use a BP med, I'd like to use the one with the most upside and I still believe that to be telmisartan.

Yeah the more I learn the more I like telmisartan in particular. Bp control, cardiac protection, renal protection, insulin sensitivity, fluid balance, and attenuation of erythrocytosis. Broad effects for a single med.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Yeah the more I learn the more I like telmisartan in particular. Bp control, cardiac protection, renal protection, insulin sensitivity, fluid balance, and attenuation of erythrocytosis. Broad effects for a single med.

The attenuation of erythrocytosis can't be overstated IMO. So many folks I know IRL who have RBC issues on baby doses. I'm over here pushing big boy doses of test + EQ and I have NEVER had RBC come in over 53% no matter what I do, what compounds I take, etc. And I'll be the first to admit I'm terrible at staying properly hydrated

 

[Jin23]

The attenuation of erythrocytosis can't be overstated IMO. So many folks I know IRL who have RBC issues on baby doses. I'm over here pushing big boy doses of test + EQ and I have NEVER had RBC come in over 53% no matter what I do, what compounds I take, etc. And I'll be the first to admit I'm terrible at staying properly hydrated

Hydration has more to do with hematocrit then red blood cell count.

And erythropoietic response to aas is influenced by many genetic and physiological factors. From variations in CAG repeats in AR genes, to EPO gene expression, HIF (oxigen) to more physiological factors as hepcidin expression, iron absorption and utilization, inflammation, etc.

I'm not following the discussion, are you taking telmi? That's a nice number for high EQ. You meant to say hematocrit right? This just occured to me ...

 

[readalot]

RBC

Hct.

Another example of your gifts. Be careful.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Hydration has more to do with hematocrit then red blood cell count.

And erythropoietic response to aas is influenced by many genetic and physiological factors. From variations in CAG repeats in AR genes, to EPO gene expression, HIF (oxigen) to more physiological factors as hepcidin expression, iron absorption and utilization, inflammation, etc.

I'm not following the discussion, are you taking telmi? That's a nice number for high EQ. You meant to say hematocrit right? This just occured to me ...

Whoops, was going fast and yes I meant HCT

I’ve been taking Telmisartan 80mg for a decade

I realize there’s quite a bit of difference between individuals when it comes to drug response

Just hard to ignore the many many anecdotes I have through various coaches of Telmisartan before + after helping regulate their client’s HCT

I guess I should just disclaimer everything as YMMV but I feel like that should be implied with everything said here

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Hct.

Another example of your gifts. Be careful.

Precisely what I meant.

I carefully murdered my leg workout today and then annihilated Buffalo Wild Wings.

Thanks for your concern though, seriously.

 

[Jin23]

Whoops, was going fast and yes I meant HCT

I’ve been taking Telmisartan 80mg for a decade

I realize there’s quite a bit of difference between individuals when it comes to drug response

Just hard to ignore the many many anecdotes I have through various coaches of Telmisartan before + after helping regulate their client’s HCT

I guess I should just disclaimer everything as YMMV but I feel like that should be implied with everything said here

Ofc. I haven't been around that much lately and I don't know you. A lot of people on here would need that explanation, so I just presume.

I'm happy that meso is gathering a more mature and/or intelligent user base where we can have normal civil conversatios. It seems like it's skewing abit more towards the optimization/"bio hacking" route then straight up aas abuse. Although this might be my subjective/selective experience as it takes only a minute to browse through the qsc thread and all bets are off.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Ofc. I haven't been around that much lately and I don't know you. A lot of people on here would need that explanation, so I just presume.

Lol I get that. I feel like I "know" you because I've read your posts for a couple years now, but I understand that familiarity is not reciprocated since I just started posting recently.

I'm happy that meso is gathering a more mature and/or intelligent user base where we can have normal civil conversatios.

Love this.

It seems like it's skewing abit more towards the optimization/"bio hacking" route then straight up aas abuse. Although this might be my subjective/selective experience as it takes only a minute to browse through the qsc thread and all bets are off.

I feel like there has been quite a surge in peptide interest. I'm not exactly sure what has spurred that; Huberman, or other typically consumed media from your favorite "health / optimization / fitness" influencers.

But whatever is driving more interest in biohacking and optimization versus AAS abuse, is a good thing.

It also seems like there is more intelligent AAS abuse happening where folks are still using hefty doses, but are more concerned with minimizing harm and taking keen interest in bio / health markers.

 

[readalot]

Great review paper.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Can-Hemoglobin-Hematocrit-Relationship-Be-Used-to-Hayuanta/5086396237c2577c594b3077b1319765cdbc605b?p2df

https://media.neliti.com/media/publications/398973-can-hemoglobin-hematocrit-relationship-b-a156da1b.pdf

Daily Injections to Manage Hematocrit - Not Working

Yes, I think I know what Hct is. And no, it isn’t the % of hemoglobin in plasma. It is the volume percentage of red blood cells in whole blood. Contrary to your statement above, dehydration will affect both Hct and Hgb. Here’s a good reference for you to read: Hemoglobin (Hb) is the...

t-nation.com

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Great review paper.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Can-Hemoglobin-Hematocrit-Relationship-Be-Used-to-Hayuanta/5086396237c2577c594b3077b1319765cdbc605b?p2df

https://media.neliti.com/media/publications/398973-can-hemoglobin-hematocrit-relationship-b-a156da1b.pdf

Daily Injections to Manage Hematocrit - Not Working

Yes, I think I know what Hct is. And no, it isn’t the % of hemoglobin in plasma. It is the volume percentage of red blood cells in whole blood. Contrary to your statement above, dehydration will affect both Hct and Hgb. Here’s a good reference for you to read: Hemoglobin (Hb) is the...

t-nation.com

You've got a paper for everything - love it. Will check it out after I crush this push session.

 

[twreck555]

Browsing the excel male forums, testosterone reddit, etc... notice a ton of guys with my same constellation of symptoms while running cypionate: flat affect, water retention, low libido. Some of these guys claim that they feel much better after switching to propionate. I'm considering trying this. Thoughts?

 

[twreck555]

Other updates:

Dropped all otc and Grey market supps and ancillaries for the moment , except for basic vitamins, couple of minerals, ubiquinol, and fish oil
Dropped gh
Dropped test cyp to 100/wk
Kept reta at 4/wk
Probably will switch to propionate shortly

Basically, I'm tired of feeling flat, bloated, and slow. That's not me and that's not what I'm looking for. Starting over from the beginning.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Browsing the excel male forums, testosterone reddit, etc... notice a ton of guys with my same constellation of symptoms while running cypionate: flat affect, water retention, low libido. Some of these guys claim that they feel much better after switching to propionate. I'm considering trying this. Thoughts?

I’ll give you a couple things to ponder but that’s the best I can do…

1) test prop / ace gives me best feeling of any test in terms of libido, feel good, etc at same dose of cyp / enth
2) you used primo which is known to crash e2, you also lowered your test dose too. Not sure how long you discontinued primo but perhaps you’re getting some residual e2 blunting from using it. Primo also, regardless of my e2 levels, kind of blunts my emotions. I don’t get happy happy but I don’t get sad sad. I just feel flat. I don’t like that about it but I love everything else. Does same thing to my libido.
3) I think there is something to be said for having peaks and troughs instead of ultra stable levels
4) you’ve changed quite a bit in a short time. I’m guilty of doing the same thing. If you decide to change stuff again, perhaps make a deal with yourself in what exactly the protocol will be and exactly how long will you stick with it before further altering stuff.

You’re an intelligent guy and I don’t believe in trying to tell you what you should do. I know what I would do, and I know what others will advise.

Often times what I would do isn’t what I think others should do or what others would advise, lol.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are solely my own and should not be interpreted as medical advice. I am not a licensed medical professional. I am not qualified to give medical advice. YMMV.

 

[Grey Spartan]

Browsing the excel male forums, testosterone reddit, etc... notice a ton of guys with my same constellation of symptoms while running cypionate: flat affect, water retention, low libido. Some of these guys claim that they feel much better after switching to propionate. I'm considering trying this. Thoughts?

I’ll give you a couple things to ponder but that’s the best I can do…

1) test prop / ace gives me best feeling of any test in terms of libido, feel good, etc at same dose of cyp / enth
2) you used primo which is known to crash e2, you also lowered your test dose too. Not sure how long you discontinued primo but perhaps you’re getting some residual e2 blunting from using it. Primo also, regardless of my e2 levels, kind of blunts my emotions. I don’t get happy happy but I don’t get sad sad. I just feel flat. I don’t like that about it but I love everything else. Does same thing to my libido.
3) I think there is something to be said for having peaks and troughs instead of ultra stable levels
4) you’ve changed quite a bit in a short time. I’m guilty of doing the same thing. If you decide to change stuff again, perhaps make a deal with yourself in what exactly the protocol will be and exactly how long will you stick with it before further altering stuff.

You’re an intelligent guy and I don’t believe in trying to tell you what you should do. I know what I would do, and I know what others will advise.

Often times what I would do isn’t what I think others should do or what others would advise, lol.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are solely my own and should not be interpreted as medical advice. I am not a licensed medical professional. I am not qualified to give medical advice. YMMV.

DITTO! lol Except the disclaimer.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

DITTO! lol Except the disclaimer.

Oh shit I didn’t know you were a Doctor!

 

[Grey Spartan]

Oh shit I didn’t know you were a Doctor!

Sadly I am not. I meant to convey, it should not have to be stated considering this an open forum on the internet.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Sadly I am not. I meant to convey, it should not have to be stated considering this an open forum on the internet.

I’m fucking with you lol I had a feeling that’s what you meant. I guess blast makes me more playful. Here I was hoping for less empathy…

 

[readalot]

Browsing the excel male forums, testosterone reddit, etc... notice a ton of guys with my same constellation of symptoms while running cypionate: flat affect, water retention, low libido. Some of these guys claim that they feel much better after switching to propionate. I'm considering trying this. Thoughts?

@FunkOdyssey

Bring the learnings to this earnest and eager Brother in Iron if you please.

 

[Jin23]

Browsing the excel male forums, testosterone reddit, etc... notice a ton of guys with my same constellation of symptoms while running cypionate: flat affect, water retention, low libido. Some of these guys claim that they feel much better after switching to propionate. I'm considering trying this. Thoughts?

Other updates:

Dropped all otc and Grey market supps and ancillaries for the moment , except for basic vitamins, couple of minerals, ubiquinol, and fish oil
Dropped gh
Dropped test cyp to 100/wk
Kept reta at 4/wk
Probably will switch to propionate shortly

Basically, I'm tired of feeling flat, bloated, and slow. That's not me and that's not what I'm looking for. Starting over from the beginning.

"I leave a white and turbid wake; pale waters, paler cheeks, where’er I sail. ... So down we go, to the bottom of the world." And so begins the trt micromanagement rabbit hole.