ZyzzReincarnate
Member
Okay. But why?
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Anabolic Steroids
Somatrogon (NGENLA) Test Run
- Thread starter Pinnacle Elements
- Start date
Intrepid
Banned
think you meant 1.42mg/day
in IUs this would be 4.26iu/day, although I don't know if the new long acting GH scales the same way as tradition rHGH would on a iu/mg basis.
ZyzzReincarnate
Member
Yeah, thats the golden question. I'm sure we'll all find that out at some point since Ngenla seems to be getting lots of attention. Its still early days. I predict, that at somepoint, we'll all have access to Ngenla from vendors such as QSC.
*oh yeah. I didnt read it as 10mg, but rather 10ius. So yeah, 10mg x3 = 30iu. 30iu/7 days = 4.28ius/day.
We dont know if it add up like that though.
Intrepid
Banned
the more bloodwork that comes in, the better the information we'll have.
Bloodwork can still be tricky though because IGF-1 levels can vary for a multiple of reasons, and responses to the drug will vary greatly from person to person so the best data would come from a person thats doing very frequent bloodwork and chronologically tracking the changes.
even GH serum levels could vary a lot with NGENLA because it has a wide window in which it peaks.
NGENLA® (somatrogon-ghla) Clinical Pharmacology | Pfizer Medical Information - US
NGENLA® (somatrogon-ghla) Clinical Pharmacology 12 CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY 12.1 Mechanism of Action Somatrogon-ghla binds to the GH receptor and initiates a signal transduction cascade culminating in changes in growth and metabolism. Somatrogon-ghla binding leads to activation of the STAT5b...
www.pfizermedicalinformation.com
- Subq administration -- serum levels peaked within 6 to 25 hours, with a median of 11 hours
- IGF 1 levels peak about 48 hours after the dose. Average weekly IGF occurring 4 days post dose.
- Estimated half life 37.7 hours
- Elimination life of 8 days post dose
MyNameIsJeff
Well-known Member
-A weekly dose of NGENLA at 0.66 mg/kg or
-A daily dose of somatropin at 0.034 mg/kg (corresponding to 0.238 mg/kg per week.
resulted in comparable outcomes in adolescents. Extrapolating from the above, we can say that:
To emulate the results of 5IU of GH per day (~12mg GH per week), you would need (0.66/0.238)*12 = 33.27mg NGENLA per week. So roughly half a pen per week.
Needless to say, GH is much cheaper to run. It has a better safety profile, too. If you really hate pinning yourself, or if you need to travel and can't bring your GH, then sure, take some NGENLA. For everyone else GH reins supreme.
-A daily dose of somatropin at 0.034 mg/kg (corresponding to 0.238 mg/kg per week.
resulted in comparable outcomes in adolescents. Extrapolating from the above, we can say that:
To emulate the results of 5IU of GH per day (~12mg GH per week), you would need (0.66/0.238)*12 = 33.27mg NGENLA per week. So roughly half a pen per week.
Needless to say, GH is much cheaper to run. It has a better safety profile, too. If you really hate pinning yourself, or if you need to travel and can't bring your GH, then sure, take some NGENLA. For everyone else GH reins supreme.
ZyzzReincarnate
Member
Agreed.the more bloodwork that comes in, the better the information we'll have.
Bloodwork can still be tricky though because IGF-1 levels can vary for a multiple of reasons, and responses to the drug will vary greatly from person to person so the best data would come from a person thats doing very frequent bloodwork and chronologically tracking the changes.
even GH serum levels could vary a lot with NGENLA because it has a wide window in which it peaks.
NGENLA® (somatrogon-ghla) Clinical Pharmacology | Pfizer Medical Information - US
NGENLA® (somatrogon-ghla) Clinical Pharmacology 12 CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY 12.1 Mechanism of Action Somatrogon-ghla binds to the GH receptor and initiates a signal transduction cascade culminating in changes in growth and metabolism. Somatrogon-ghla binding leads to activation of the STAT5b...
- Subq administration -- serum levels peaked within 6 to 25 hours, with a median of 11 hours
- IGF 1 levels peak about 48 hours after the dose. Average weekly IGF occurring 4 days post dose.
- Estimated half life 37.7 hours
- Elimination life of 8 days post dose
I think the best way to answer our questions would be investigating any patents or administration guidelines provided to doctors by the pharmaceutical company (Pfizer I assume). I'm sure those exist somewhere, but we dont know exactly how hard it would be to access those.
We can try to tear the pharmakinetics of Ngelna apart ourselves through anecdotal experiences or a series of blood tests, but I think it would take too long to build up a comprehensive data base and it would be ridden with inaccuracies anyways due to the infinite number of controll variables we have no influence over.
We might have to wait until more scientific literature is published or until Pfizer releases their research and clinical studies.
ZyzzReincarnate
Member
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I find that really hard to get my head around.
For a 100kg individual, the daily GH dosage for a week is 0.034 x100kg x7 x3 = 71.4ius per week.
For a 100kg individual, the weekly Ngenla dosage for a week is 0.66 x100kg x3 = 198ius per week??
Why would Ngenla need to be dosed x2.77 more than GH?
Intrepid
Banned
do you have the link for this data? I know where you got the .66mg/kg from. Whered you get the somatropin data?
so basically theres a multiplier of 2.77
such that 2.77mg of ngenla is the equivalent of 1mg (3iu) of rHGH
yeah that doesn't seem very cost efficient, not to mention the increase in insulin resistance from the long half life
ZyzzReincarnate
Member
*"Why would Ngenla need to be dosed x2.77 more than GH?"*
The only reason I can hypothesise is that Ngenla has some form of "ester" attached to it which slows its release into the blood.
Now if Ngenla had some form of ester(s), the molecular weight of those esters would need to be taken into consideration. Ngenla might not be 100% pure GH. Like how 100mg Testosterone Cypionate is only 72mg pure testosterone because 28mg is the cypionate ester!
Now, IF thats the case, how much pure GH is there in a given quantity of Ngenla?!
The only reason I can hypothesise is that Ngenla has some form of "ester" attached to it which slows its release into the blood.
Now if Ngenla had some form of ester(s), the molecular weight of those esters would need to be taken into consideration. Ngenla might not be 100% pure GH. Like how 100mg Testosterone Cypionate is only 72mg pure testosterone because 28mg is the cypionate ester!
Now, IF thats the case, how much pure GH is there in a given quantity of Ngenla?!
MyNameIsJeff
Well-known Member
Because pharmacology.
The relative dosing of the two is the only relevant part, since the mg/kg numbers are based on low-body-weight adolescents (weighing, say, 30kg). For that population, the dosing regime makes sense.
MyNameIsJeff
Well-known Member
About NGENLA™ (somatrogon-ghla) Injection
See risks & benefits. Explore NGENLA clinical trial results and find answers to questions you might have about the safety of the prescription treatment option.
www.ngenla.com
ZyzzReincarnate
Member
You do have to consider, according to a quick search, A 100iu kit of GH would go for $1000 - $1500 in the 1990s. Today, many of us are buying kits GH for $55 each.
ZyzzReincarnate
Member
I must have read the same study too as I've also heard that number before. Definately rings a bell.
Intrepid
Banned
thank you!About NGENLA™ (somatrogon-ghla) Injection
See risks & benefits. Explore NGENLA clinical trial results and find answers to questions you might have about the safety of the prescription treatment option.
looks like 2.77 is the official ratio
MyNameIsJeff
Well-known Member
How about you look at the wikipedia page of Somatrogon before spouting nonsense? Considering also your retarded attempt at a calculation on the last page, I suggest you take a back seat on this one.
ZyzzReincarnate
Member
You heard it here first folks!
ZyzzReincarnate
Member
I already have buddy. Weeks ago. Ngenla is fairly new, it must be getting updated with new info
Edit:
Nope, just checked. The page is as empty and general as the last time I checked it.
So please, show me where on wiki does anything contradict what I've said?
Your explaination for why Ngenla needs to be dosed higher is "becuz pharmacology".
My hypoethesis for why Ngenla needs to be dosed higher is a lot more comprehensive than yours and i'm fairly confident in it.
Last edited:
MyNameIsJeff
Well-known Member
Here are some of the issues with NGENLA:
Ideally, NGENLA would be dosed twice a week, but that doesn't sound as nice in Pfizer's marketing materials, and sort of defeats the purpose of the product.
And the development of antibodies should not be surprising, given that the NGENLA molecule is not bio-identical.
Source
Ideally, NGENLA would be dosed twice a week, but that doesn't sound as nice in Pfizer's marketing materials, and sort of defeats the purpose of the product.
And the development of antibodies should not be surprising, given that the NGENLA molecule is not bio-identical.
MyNameIsJeff
Well-known Member
ZyzzReincarnate
Member
Just goes to show, the new, shiny, designer toy isnt always as good as it seems or sounds to be like.
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