Steroid forums - how things have changed

I’ve been on the forums since 2012 and this first one I was a member of was the as forumn back in the day. Honestly, I don’t think anything has changed. Maybe only the amount of young guns rushing in because of social media. You have the 20 year old asking questions, he does what he wants, tries it and never goes back to gear again. It’s a fad for them, most of them don’t have the tenacity and funds to continue realistically running gear. Getting blood tests and playing seesaw with doses and support supps. They come in quick and leave just as fast. The amount of them has increased because of social media, and even the influencers. They are all in there 20’s and let’s be honest we can bounce back from a lot at that age. Once the real problems hit it will eliminate about half of them. I think we think it’s different because of the social platforms promoting it, because that does increase the numbers and way too much false info being spread. All in all we’ll get kids forever wanting to do a dbol only cycle, he’ll bloat up, crash his levels when he stops and never touch it again. And the real ones will continue to support and grow in the industry/realm .
 
I would agree with this, but I don't think this phenomenon is a function of steroid culture or online steroid culture. I think what we are seeing recently is a melding of two larger issues:

1. A massive shift in mainstream social media, depicting influencers with physiques that can only be attained with PEDs - whether they claim PED use or not. In all my exposure to this "arena" in the last couple decades or so I've never seen anything quite like it. Never before have I seen it so common to have to discuss PEDs with children. Something that used to be kept hidden and was taboo is now openly discussed, and I might go so far as saying it's now glorified. PEDs are now mainstream.

2. A global shift in Western online culture to general immaturity in online behavior, an inability to focus attention for more than 5 seconds, an unprecedented need for immediate gratification and a general lack of shame and propriety. "Pride", "self" and "pleasure" is the game today - and you can't teach a person like that.

Couple those two issues, and you see a bunch of kids acting like assholes online and flooding PED forums with their bullshit.
 
That's an ego issue if someone can't admit to being wrong. Everyone seems to be elite experts nowadays you have to wonder how come they don't work for NASA or such if they are such geniuses.

Perhaps googling and checking "facts" on the internet to prove people wrong makes them feel like they are smarter or worse yet watching Anabolic doc or such yt channel and pretending to understand half the technical stuff he talks about using med terms.

I find it funny when you challenge them with your backed up stuff then they feel cornered and throw insults at you. Their ability to turn things around and play a victim if that doesn't work though, is their true skill.
Bro, literally all I've done is study the fuck out of this shit after I received the education to be able to do so.

A long while ago, I was as clueless and just followed the broscience too. It still worked because, gasp, anabolic agents work. But my education led me to an awareness that the broscience was almost completely wrong, so I came back, and did things differently.

The personal attacks have really spiked lately; which is funny because I've never been nicer or better able to handle it.
 
Bro, literally all I've done is study the fuck out of this shit after I received the education to be able to do so.

A long while ago, I was as clueless and just followed the broscience too. It still worked because, gasp, anabolic agents work. But my education led me to an awareness that the broscience was almost completely wrong, so I came back, and did things differently.

The personal attacks have really spiked lately; which is funny because I've never been nicer or better able to handle it.
Attacks on knowledgeable guys isn’t new. Remember how keyboard warriors were telling Skip off with his methods in Intense muscle? Or the mods calling Dante trudell a fraud on his dc training. There are lots of great minds back in the early to late 2000’s who quit forums because they got tired of all the misinformation being spread by forum vets and famous members. Its not about who is right but who can type more insults, this didn’t change nowadays.
 
Attacks on knowledgeable guys isn’t new. Remember how keyboard warriors were telling Skip off with his methods in Intense muscle? Or the mods calling Dante trudell a fraud on his dc training. There are lots of great minds back in the early to late 2000’s who quit forums because they got tired of all the misinformation being spread by forum vets and famous members. Its not about who is right but who can type more insults, this didn’t change nowadays.
You're absolutely right. I've seen it happen live, attacks on Dante, when he really quit ProM, it wasn't too long ago. Same with another bodybuilder I think Ben Pollack, pretty recent.

I'm not likely to rage-quit over words on a screen. First of all, I think it's funny and get amused. Secondly, I enjoy counterattacking and being able to rain down fury.
 
I've never been nicer or better able to handle it.

I noticed that and besides being pleasantly surprised, I was going to ask you what changed. Have you simply lowered dosages, or started using an AD or just simply started lowering stress, managing the hpa axis ...?

It's so easy determining who is on cycle, just from the users writing on the forum. Cognitive flexibility goes way down, discourse semantics become much less entropic, or maybe in some cases more entropic (your writing for an example) to the point of "autism" and ofc ego, anger/aggression get out of hand and for some; a notable push towards adhd like behavior coupled with unstable personality disorder traits.

The later is why using ped's is such a bad idea for young people. Everybody is focused on mortality as the main signifier of steroid use danger, however, lives getting ruined or just noticeably deteriorated, due to unstable and changed personalities, I wager - adds up to a much higher total tally.
 
I noticed that and besides being pleasantly surprised, I was going to ask you what changed. Have you simply lowered dosages, or started using an AD or just simply started lowering stress, managing the hpa axis ...?
You noticed, really? Great. Came off entirely actually.
It's so easy determining who is on cycle, just from the users writing on the forum. Cognitive flexibility goes way down, discourse semantics become much less entropic, or maybe in some cases more entropic (your writing for an example) to the point of "autism" and ofc ego, anger/aggression get out of hand and for some; a notable push towards adhd like behavior coupled with unstable personality disorder traits.
When I was on trenbolone I was unbearable. Only 100 mg enanthate weekly!
The later is why using ped's is such a bad idea for young people. Everybody is focused on mortality as the main signifier of steroid use danger, however, lives getting ruined or just noticeably deteriorated, due to unstable and changed personalities, I wager - adds up to a much higher total tally.
People delude themselves because on AAS you think you're yourself, they're not street drugs. But they definitely alter mood and aggression, can cause depression and anxiety, etc.
 
You noticed, really? Great. Came off entirely actually.

Yes, noticed it some time ago, to the pointed where I wanted to ask you if you were on an SSRI. This is when such dramatic personality changes towards understanding, tolerance, compassion, etc. tend to happen.

People delude themselves because on AAS you think you're yourself, they're not street drugs. But they definitely alter mood and aggression, can cause depression and anxiety, etc.

Seeing how aas amplify ego, lower self awareness and IQ (most notably cognitive flexibility) I think they are The "delusional drugs" (too tired to properly word this), it's kinda in their MOA, wouldn't you say so ...?

Anyway, I'm glad you came off.
 
Yes, noticed it some time ago, to the pointed where I wanted to ask you if you were on an SSRI. This is when such dramatic personality changes towards understanding, tolerance, compassion, etc. tend to happen.



Seeing how aas amplify ego, lower self awareness and IQ (most notably cognitive flexibility) I think they are The "delusional drugs" (too tired to properly word this), it's kinda in their MOA, wouldn't you say so ...?

Anyway, I'm glad you came off.
I think nandrolone affects motivation & learning by its effects on dopamine metabolism, and AAS generally reduce spatial intelligence, but not verbal, logical, etc.
 
I think nandrolone affects motivation & learning by its effects on dopamine metabolism

Searching for this now as a first time Nandrolone user, but do you have any documentation on this at your fingertips? Preferably something a software architect without a chemistry or biology background could understand haha
 
Searching for this now as a first time Nandrolone user, but do you have any documentation on this at your fingertips? Preferably something a software architect without a chemistry or biology background could understand haha

The article focuses on dopamine & nandrolone's effects on sexual interest (libido), but you can delve into references as well.
 
I guess you can't help but miss it, how different it was back then. The atmosphere and vibe was totally different, communication was much more straightforward and people interested in drugs were not pushed to look a certain way by influencers and such.

They knew what they wanted and they came to get results. Nothing less nothing more, steroids were for serious people. Not bunch of dyel skinny twinks trying to look like at least they lift, cuz they think you can't get there naturally.

Now we have boys wanting to do tbol only cuz he's afraid of side effects that might not even be present. He wants fast gains. Says it can't be done naturally. While mentioning absolutely nothing about his experience, diet, training, lifts.

But it's not all bad, in fact it improved a lot in other ways. It is what I call a true evolution.

Meso especially came a long way and did what they could do best to unite us who are still passionate about what we do and provide us with possibly the best market for our needs, information and much, much more.
Hey @lukiss96 , this is a really cool discussion. I'll even pre-date the discussion by reminiscing of "back in the day" of the early Internet in the mid-1990s. This was prior to modern web forum apps like vbulletin, etc. I'm talking misc.weights.fitness.

Those engaged in those early AAS discussion were much more serious trainers, much like what you see in any bodybuilding gym at the time, but much more knowledgeable.

And I guess looking back, the community was so incredibly small compared to what is happening today. Anyone who signed up with one of those AOL, earthlink, etc. free internet discs they received in the mail who looked around for AAS-type info could find themselves accidentally walking into the middle of a conversation between Dan Duchaine, Patrick Arnold, Bruce Kneller, Lyle McDonald, Bill Roberts, Will Brink, etc. Anyone could interact, talk, and even meet these guys in person as I did. The access to these guys was unparalleled.

Given the community membership was much smaller, the participants much more serious, and the level of discussion much higher, I think there was a lot more respect for those with knowledge to share before the Internet more mainstream and social media changed the dynamics over the ensuing 20+ years

We are incredibly fortunate to still have experts like @Type-IIx, @PeterBond, etc. but mainstream adoption of AAS use seems to have attracted a lot more casual users who don't appreciate and respect the value of the contributions of true experts like them as much as would have happened in the past. It's challenging to raise the IQ of the discussion when everyone wants to be an influencer and present themselves as experts not to mention all those who just want to troll.

I am rambling a bit and have a lot more to say. For the moment, I want reflect on changes over this time that has troubled more particularly in recent years...

When I first discovered the Internet, I thought I found the solution to everything. All of this knowledge, all of these experts, and the unrestricted exchange of information would make us smarter.

As for AAS users as a group, we could collectively reduce the level of harm because we would know more about how to manage AAS-related side effects and minimize harm. Therefore, AAS use would just be safer across the board.

We used to dismiss all of the AAS hysteria in the media. The refrain if steroids are so dangerous then show us the bodies was a good rally because there were essentially no bodies.

Fast forward to the 2020s, we can't really say that anymore. Because there are bodies.

What's changed? There are probably many factors but one big one that I will highlight is the dramatic change in the patterns of AAS use.

In the early days of the Internet, most AAS users would do one or two 10-12 week cycle per year, maybe PCT or maybe not, and they would be off of everything for the remainder of the year while maintaining proper training/nutrition. This was more of the norm than the exception.

Nowadays, blast and cruise is very common (which is basically a euphemism for a never-ending cycle). TRT isn't actually testosterone replacement therapy. It's a euphemism to use 200mg, 300mg, 400mg, or more testosterone per week. Sometimes it's called sports TRT or enhanced TRT. I would even say that forums have even contributed to the normalization of such practices.

In reality, these are all just ways of rationalizing never-ending cycles and trivializing any accompanying health concerns.

The irony is that because of the Internet and AAS-related forums, we as a community know more than ever before about how to manage AAS-related side effects and how to minimize harm. Yet, so many users are willing to take even greater risks for marginal additional gains. This ranges from the serious users to the casual users.

I'll probably ramble some more later on how things have changed over the year. So @lukiss96 please reserve additional space for me in the thread.
 
I LOVE this conversation. I am a newbie here, but my lifting started with Arnold's Bodybuilding book and Franco Columbo's Nutrition book. Numerous M&F and Flex mags. Then got sucked into the CyberGenics and EAS hype. Early internet adopter (software developer) and spent countless hours on MWF.

Looking back, there was so much valuable information and people willing to help for free...

Then had 3 kids, crazy career and 13 months ago found myself at 438 pounds at 6'3. Doc puts my on RX tirzepatide and today I hit 300 lbs with lbm of 210.

Really thankful for the vets that stick around despite the social media crowd and young un's. Unfortunately, there is too much money to be made, if you refute them, they go ballistic because they do not want to negatively impact their affiliates.

Anyway, thanks to the vets for sticking around and I am enjoying the 'old talk'. Lastly, keep in mind there are a few of us that arrived here from Reddit, using glp1's, that are actually doing things the right way. Not many, but there are a few.
 
Hey @lukiss96 , this is a really cool discussion. I'll even pre-date the discussion by reminiscing of "back in the day" of the early Internet in the mid-1990s. This was prior to modern web forum apps like vbulletin, etc. I'm talking misc.weights.fitness.

Those engaged in those early AAS discussion were much more serious trainers, much like what you see in any bodybuilding gym at the time, but much more knowledgeable.

And I guess looking back, the community was so incredibly small compared to what is happening today. Anyone who signed up with one of those AOL, earthlink, etc. free internet discs they received in the mail who looked around for AAS-type info could find themselves accidentally walking into the middle of a conversation between Dan Duchaine, Patrick Arnold, Bruce Kneller, Lyle McDonald, Bill Roberts, Will Brink, etc. Anyone could interact, talk, and even meet these guys in person as I did. The access to these guys was unparalleled.

Given the community membership was much smaller, the participants much more serious, and the level of discussion much higher, I think there was a lot more respect for those with knowledge to share before the Internet more mainstream and social media changed the dynamics over the ensuing 20+ years

We are incredibly fortunate to still have experts like @Type-IIx, @PeterBond, etc. but mainstream adoption of AAS use seems to have attracted a lot more casual users who don't appreciate and respect the value of the contributions of true experts like them as much as would have happened in the past. It's challenging to raise the IQ of the discussion when everyone wants to be an influencer and present themselves as experts not to mention all those who just want to troll.

I am rambling a bit and have a lot more to say. For the moment, I want reflect on changes over this time that has troubled more particularly in recent years...

When I first discovered the Internet, I thought I found the solution to everything. All of this knowledge, all of these experts, and the unrestricted exchange of information would make us smarter.

As for AAS users as a group, we could collectively reduce the level of harm because we would know more about how to manage AAS-related side effects and minimize harm. Therefore, AAS use would just be safer across the board.

We used to dismiss all of the AAS hysteria in the media. The refrain if steroids are so dangerous then show us the bodies was a good rally because there were essentially no bodies.

Fast forward to the 2020s, we can't really say that anymore. Because there are bodies.

What's changed? There are probably many factors but one big one that I will highlight is the dramatic change in the patterns of AAS use.

In the early days of the Internet, most AAS users would do one or two 10-12 week cycle per year, maybe PCT or maybe not, and they would be off of everything for the remainder of the year while maintaining proper training/nutrition. This was more of the norm than the exception.

Nowadays, blast and cruise is very common (which is basically a euphemism for a never-ending cycle). TRT isn't actually testosterone replacement therapy. It's a euphemism to use 200mg, 300mg, 400mg, or more testosterone per week. Sometimes it's called sports TRT or enhanced TRT. I would even say that forums have even contributed to the normalization of such practices.

In reality, these are all just ways of rationalizing never-ending cycles and trivializing any accompanying health concerns.

The irony is that because of the Internet and AAS-related forums, we as a community know more than ever before about how to manage AAS-related side effects and how to minimize harm. Yet, so many users are willing to take even greater risks for marginal additional gains. This ranges from the serious users to the casual users.

I'll probably ramble some more later on how things have changed over the year. So @lukiss96 please reserve additional space for me in the thread.
Great post and it's great to see your viewpoint. I mainly browsed forums back around 2000 or so to peruse information on training and such and yes the discussions were quite informative and greatly helped me in my training. It may been around 2005 I briefly browsed Meso when I was searching for some good training discussions and do feel the discussions back in the early days were so much better and relevant than now. Those old discussions are great info for those who make use of the search function but some are too lazy to do it and want to be spoon fed instead.

When I first signed up in 2010 the vibe was more free-wheeling then and few if any trolls or fakes. Good people too.


Nice that @lukiss96 started this thread and ought to be one of the best discussions to be had...and I'm sure he won't mind you chiming in!
 
Agreed this is a great thread and while I joined to specifically improve my knowledge and share my limited knowledge, I have noticed myself trolling more and more recently. This discussion has been a great reminder to myself to do better, so all the reminiscing aside I additionally appreciate it for that
 
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More Plates More Dates is responsible for so much of this nonsense. Any time a new member uses the word ‘superphysiological’, I’ve read all I need to read.

He’s as bad as that hackfraud Vigorous Steve and his 10mg primo cycle TRT+ nonsense he swears he gets his physique with, and you can too if you only pay him dearly to be your coach. Lolol
You should watch or listen to Peter Attia's Q&A where he asks Derek an assortment of questions he knows the answer to and watches Derek choke and spit out marketing-style buzzword bullshit.
 
Hey @lukiss96 , this is a really cool discussion. I'll even pre-date the discussion by reminiscing of "back in the day" of the early Internet in the mid-1990s. This was prior to modern web forum apps like vbulletin, etc. I'm talking misc.weights.fitness.

Those engaged in those early AAS discussion were much more serious trainers, much like what you see in any bodybuilding gym at the time, but much more knowledgeable.

And I guess looking back, the community was so incredibly small compared to what is happening today. Anyone who signed up with one of those AOL, earthlink, etc. free internet discs they received in the mail who looked around for AAS-type info could find themselves accidentally walking into the middle of a conversation between Dan Duchaine, Patrick Arnold, Bruce Kneller, Lyle McDonald, Bill Roberts, Will Brink, etc. Anyone could interact, talk, and even meet these guys in person as I did. The access to these guys was unparalleled.

Given the community membership was much smaller, the participants much more serious, and the level of discussion much higher, I think there was a lot more respect for those with knowledge to share before the Internet more mainstream and social media changed the dynamics over the ensuing 20+ years

We are incredibly fortunate to still have experts like @Type-IIx, @PeterBond, etc. but mainstream adoption of AAS use seems to have attracted a lot more casual users who don't appreciate and respect the value of the contributions of true experts like them as much as would have happened in the past. It's challenging to raise the IQ of the discussion when everyone wants to be an influencer and present themselves as experts not to mention all those who just want to troll.

I am rambling a bit and have a lot more to say. For the moment, I want reflect on changes over this time that has troubled more particularly in recent years...

When I first discovered the Internet, I thought I found the solution to everything. All of this knowledge, all of these experts, and the unrestricted exchange of information would make us smarter.

As for AAS users as a group, we could collectively reduce the level of harm because we would know more about how to manage AAS-related side effects and minimize harm. Therefore, AAS use would just be safer across the board.

We used to dismiss all of the AAS hysteria in the media. The refrain if steroids are so dangerous then show us the bodies was a good rally because there were essentially no bodies.

Fast forward to the 2020s, we can't really say that anymore. Because there are bodies.

What's changed? There are probably many factors but one big one that I will highlight is the dramatic change in the patterns of AAS use.

In the early days of the Internet, most AAS users would do one or two 10-12 week cycle per year, maybe PCT or maybe not, and they would be off of everything for the remainder of the year while maintaining proper training/nutrition. This was more of the norm than the exception.

Nowadays, blast and cruise is very common (which is basically a euphemism for a never-ending cycle). TRT isn't actually testosterone replacement therapy. It's a euphemism to use 200mg, 300mg, 400mg, or more testosterone per week. Sometimes it's called sports TRT or enhanced TRT. I would even say that forums have even contributed to the normalization of such practices.

In reality, these are all just ways of rationalizing never-ending cycles and trivializing any accompanying health concerns.

The irony is that because of the Internet and AAS-related forums, we as a community know more than ever before about how to manage AAS-related side effects and how to minimize harm. Yet, so many users are willing to take even greater risks for marginal additional gains. This ranges from the serious users to the casual users.

I'll probably ramble some more later on how things have changed over the year. So @lukiss96 please reserve additional space for me in the thread.
Thank you, nice to see the man who created this very place comment.

Very interesting to hear about the very early days of this online culture. You probably go over everything in more detail and in fewer words than I possibly can.

By the way there is always a place for you in any thread. I will be waiting for you to tell us more. This is indeed an interesting discussion and having people like you makes it even more so.
 
You should watch or listen to Peter Attia's Q&A where he asks Derek an assortment of questions he knows the answer to and watches Derek choke and spit out marketing-style buzzword bullshit.

I was very surprised to see attia host derek. The thing came off, or rather; it is a cheap promotional tactic, with which I lost some respect for attia. While I saw the same thing you just mentioned, most people don't look at such media with a critical eye and all that this interview did was to affirm derek as an industry expert, which he clearly isn't. Unfortunate.
 

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