SymBiotics (U.S. domestic)

[martino]

i know sources who been selling ONLY DNP for years and been making great profit without any issues yet i know sources who only sold Test, Anadrol & Masteron and got busted.
it's purely how u handle ur operation.
ur knowledge how it works is flawed, please don't spin it and give wrong info that can negatively impact sources & customers.

Not talking about the increased chance of getting busted, I'm referring to if he gets busted.

I would view the sale of AAS as a victimless crime, adults choosing to do what they want with their own bodies. However a judge/prosecutor looking at the DNP profile is gonna notice this is a chemical(not AAS) that is basically an industrial poison.

 

[Villain]

Not talking about the increased chance of getting busted, I'm referring to if he gets busted.

I would view the sale of AAS as a victimless crime, adults choosing to do what they want with their own bodies. However a judge/prosecutor looking at the DNP profile is gonna notice this is a chemical(not AAS) that is basically an industrial poison.

And if someone can’t handle the sides of a Tren cycle and goes Chris Benoit on someone, is it still a victimless crime?

 

[JC Grifter]

And if someone can’t handle the sides of a Tren cycle and goes Chris Benoit on someone, is it still a victimless crime?

Now That’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time

 

[tauras66]

And if someone can’t handle the sides of a Tren cycle and goes Chris Benoit on someone, is it still a victimless crime?

That dudes case of CTE was so advanced ..the least of his demons were his anabolic usage

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

And if someone can’t handle the sides of a Tren cycle and goes Chris Benoit on someone, is it still a victimless crime?

Fake news. It was all the other shit he was addicted to. Remember which side you’re on here!!! Why promote falsities that they use to make/keep steroids a scheduled drug.

 

[rester]

about cataracts with DNP, i read a few full studies in their entirety here some interesting facts directly from studies:

1. chances of cataracts is around 1-2%.
2. from those 1-2%, 95% cases are women, why women are drastically more at risk? only a few were men.
3. all attempts to force animals in lab to develop cataracts using DNP were unsuccessful and failed
4. the cause of cataracts from DNP is unknown and unproven(due to point 3') however, it is proven empirically and statistically as 1-2% of DNP users developed it which is higher than average cataracts chance, yet the risk is statistically skewed drastically towards women at 95% of cases.

 

[martino]

And if someone can’t handle the sides of a Tren cycle and goes Chris Benoit on someone, is it still a victimless crime?

The problem is Benoit's behavior might have been caused by repeated blows to the head. NIH has done a lot of research on TBI, these guys have brains that are turned into swiss cheese.

I became a calmer person on steroids than I ever was off them. I used to get angry and irritated real easy, now I don't give a shit.

A victimless crime is a crime where you decide to do what you want to yourself, you own yourself. Like injecting steroids in the privacy of your own home. Same thing with drugs, if you want to smoke crack in the privacy of your own home it shouldn't be a crime.

Basically if you can't present a victim in court to testify that they were harmed by your actions either body or property, then there has been no crime. However if you are sourcing DNP and your customer is standing there in court blind, that is gonna be a problem.

 

[Villain]

Fake news. It was all the other shit he was addicted to. Remember which side you’re on here!!! Why promote falsities that they use to make/keep steroids a scheduled drug.

Ok ok, bad example. Just remembering back to when I was accused of roid rage by Canadianbacon when I wished death on his entire bloodline.

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

Ok ok, bad example. Just remembering back to when I was accused of roid rage by Canadianbacon when I wished death on his entire bloodline.

Yea! PEDs are healthy and we’re all super-calm upstanding individuals. No one is “crazy”, we don’t throw our girlfriends, we’re not addicted, and everything is great! [emoji106] It’s safe enough to go ahead and sell it at Walmart please!

 

[SymBiotics]

people ordered more liquid winstrol, anadrol & anavar than capsules? thought people prefer capsules for convenience, am i missing something?
i know it's easier to stock on liquid than capping capsules, especially considering you're out of capsule bottles, but is there practical use of liquid over capsules?

i know making DNP is a pain in the ass but it's worth dedicating time to it, few sources offer it so it'll sell quick, im gonna try urs as soon as the pack lands.

Yes. Some things were 5:1 preference in liquid according to the tally since I started.
I would assume that the liquid sales of some of them were driven by the amount of hormone available for the same price; but much of the reason is the dosage flexibility.
Without any overestimation, I have had at least 10 emails each day with requests for liquids and different dosages of capsules.
Stocking multiple capsule dosages is simply not possible for me; so suspensions will meet more of the needs for the majority of people.

True, it is more efficient for me to produce suspensions than capsules; albeit more expensive. In addition to the efficiency; the possibility of mistake is greatly reduced because to the decreased number of variables in the math for suspensions vs capsules.
I am unsure if it is common knowledge, but any two shipments of empty capsules will likely have significantly different weights. I am unsure of the reason for this manufacturing difference. A 3 mg weight difference, per capsule, will make a difference over 5000 capsules; and I believe it would be enough of a difference to make the dosages unreliable by my standards.. Also, the excipient (filler) will have a different weight depending on the humidity at the time of compounding. I was very surprised to find this out and see the significance through the math when doing my calculations. The potential weight differences between empty capsules and filler make having a standard "formula" impossible without a rigorously controlled humidity environment and capsule supply.
All of that means that each capsule batch is from a completely new formulation in which the empty capsules are weighed and weighed again when filled to max capacity of each filler and API. This is done the old fashioned way and not with any sort of powder calculator. I use a formula from legitimate compounding guide.
It's a good 1.5 hours of math and mess making before I can even compute the quantities needed for a batch.
Then the powders are blended for 6 hours in the v-blender.

What this means is that there are about a hundred chances for me to make a mistake; and I remove most of those chances with suspensions.

And in the end: the suspensions sell better. It has never been a secret that I want to maximize profit from this venture; so there is a significant financial component to the decision as well.

I feel certain that I will lose some customers who demand capsules; but that is a loss I can absorb since I know I will be less likely to produce an inconsistent product. I would much rather have 100 happy and healthy customers than 200 customers that take a chance on me messing up a capsule formula.

Regarding DNP:
It will definitely remain in capsule form until I no longer carry it. I can't imagine taking it in liquid since just the dust from it has permanently stained some of the nonporous surfaces in my lab yellow. I have 1Kg or raw DNP left, and I won't be ordering any more of it. It is laborious to deal with and I still don't really like the idea of distributing something lethal.

I apologize for any inconvenience these decisions may cause; but I believe they are the right decisions for everyone involved.

 

[martino]

Regarding DNP:
It will definitely remain in capsule form until I no longer carry it. I can't imagine taking it in liquid since just the dust from it has permanently stained some of the nonporous surfaces in my lab yellow. I have 1Kg or raw DNP left, and I won't be ordering any more of it. It is laborious to deal with and I still don't really like the idea of distributing something lethal.

I apologize for any inconvenience these decisions may cause; but I believe they are the right decisions for everyone involved.

Good business move imo, it shows you care about keeping people safe.

 

[JC Grifter]

Yes. Some things were 5:1 preference in liquid according to the tally since I started.
I would assume that the liquid sales of some of them were driven by the amount of hormone available for the same price; but much of the reason is the dosage flexibility.
Without any overestimation, I have had at least 10 emails each day with requests for liquids and different dosages of capsules.
Stocking multiple capsule dosages is simply not possible for me; so suspensions will meet more of the needs for the majority of people.

True, it is more efficient for me to produce suspensions than capsules; albeit more expensive. In addition to the efficiency; the possibility of mistake is greatly reduced because to the decreased number of variables in the math for suspensions vs capsules.
I am unsure if it is common knowledge, but any two shipments of empty capsules will likely have significantly different weights. I am unsure of the reason for this manufacturing difference. A 3 mg weight difference, per capsule, will make a difference over 5000 capsules; and I believe it would be enough of a difference to make the dosages unreliable by my standards.. Also, the excipient (filler) will have a different weight depending on the humidity at the time of compounding. I was very surprised to find this out and see the significance through the math when doing my calculations. The potential weight differences between empty capsules and filler make having a standard "formula" impossible without a rigorously controlled humidity environment and capsule supply.
All of that means that each capsule batch is from a completely new formulation in which the empty capsules are weighed and weighed again when filled to max capacity of each filler and API. This is done the old fashioned way and not with any sort of powder calculator. I use a formula from legitimate compounding guide.
It's a good 1.5 hours of math and mess making before I can even compute the quantities needed for a batch.
Then the powders are blended for 6 hours in the v-blender.

What this means is that there are about a hundred chances for me to make a mistake; and I remove most of those chances with suspensions.

And in the end: the suspensions sell better. It has never been a secret that I want to maximize profit from this venture; so there is a significant financial component to the decision as well.

I feel certain that I will lose some customers who demand capsules; but that is a loss I can absorb since I know I will be less likely to produce an inconsistent product. I would much rather have 100 happy and healthy customers than 200 customers that take a chance on me messing up a capsule formula.

Regarding DNP:
It will definitely remain in capsule form until I no longer carry it. I can't imagine taking it in liquid since just the dust from it has permanently stained some of the nonporous surfaces in my lab yellow. I have 1Kg or raw DNP left, and I won't be ordering any more of it. It is laborious to deal with and I still don't really like the idea of distributing something lethal.

I apologize for any inconvenience these decisions may cause; but I believe they are the right decisions for everyone involved.

I’m just one voice but I do prefer the orals in liquid so I can control and customize my dose.

 

[Broskie]

I’m just one voice but I do prefer the orals in liquid so I can control and customize my dose.

True this is another plus for suspensions.

 

[Broskie]

Yes. Some things were 5:1 preference in liquid according to the tally since I started.
I would assume that the liquid sales of some of them were driven by the amount of hormone available for the same price; but much of the reason is the dosage flexibility.
Without any overestimation, I have had at least 10 emails each day with requests for liquids and different dosages of capsules.
Stocking multiple capsule dosages is simply not possible for me; so suspensions will meet more of the needs for the majority of people.

True, it is more efficient for me to produce suspensions than capsules; albeit more expensive. In addition to the efficiency; the possibility of mistake is greatly reduced because to the decreased number of variables in the math for suspensions vs capsules.
I am unsure if it is common knowledge, but any two shipments of empty capsules will likely have significantly different weights. I am unsure of the reason for this manufacturing difference. A 3 mg weight difference, per capsule, will make a difference over 5000 capsules; and I believe it would be enough of a difference to make the dosages unreliable by my standards.. Also, the excipient (filler) will have a different weight depending on the humidity at the time of compounding. I was very surprised to find this out and see the significance through the math when doing my calculations. The potential weight differences between empty capsules and filler make having a standard "formula" impossible without a rigorously controlled humidity environment and capsule supply.
All of that means that each capsule batch is from a completely new formulation in which the empty capsules are weighed and weighed again when filled to max capacity of each filler and API. This is done the old fashioned way and not with any sort of powder calculator. I use a formula from legitimate compounding guide.
It's a good 1.5 hours of math and mess making before I can even compute the quantities needed for a batch.
Then the powders are blended for 6 hours in the v-blender.

What this means is that there are about a hundred chances for me to make a mistake; and I remove most of those chances with suspensions.

And in the end: the suspensions sell better. It has never been a secret that I want to maximize profit from this venture; so there is a significant financial component to the decision as well.

I feel certain that I will lose some customers who demand capsules; but that is a loss I can absorb since I know I will be less likely to produce an inconsistent product. I would much rather have 100 happy and healthy customers than 200 customers that take a chance on me messing up a capsule formula.

Could you elaborate on the issues you incur when attempting to make geometric dilutions for your capsule production? A lot of compounding pharmacies today still use this method with mortar and pestle and achieve very tight tolerances with potent medications. A while back I capsulated my own t3, which I made at 20mcg dosing and is deemed incredibly difficult to dilute properly, but most methods are accurate within 5-10% and that was good enough for me. Is there any particular aspect of it that is causing you problems?

Other than that I agree with your decision however you choose. I buy in bulk so liquids aren’t going to be my thing. Not trying to bust all over the way you run your business.

On the note of accuracy of dosing, I feel that suspensions are ideally easy to dose, but as opposed to encapsulating, suspensions are just moving the margin for dosing error over to the user, who is expected to properly mix(shake/swirl/etc.) the suspension before every dose.

I also understand the problems people have with wanting differently dosed capsules. Unlike a tablet you can't split a capsule, and even splitting a tablet is annoying as fuck since some can easily crumble. A while back I had a contact in china with access to a very small tablet production line. Would just ship the raws there and have them properly dilute and stamp the tablets into very small dose denominations, say 10mg clomid tablets, 5mg anavar tablets, or 2.5mg exemestane. In this way I could dose as accurately as I needed with the only inconvenience being the quantity of tablets needed for a dose. The tablets were so small It never was an inconvenience for me personally.

A tablet rotary press from china only costs a couple grand. As opposed to the fully automated 10-15k machines. At one point I heavily considered buying one and pressing my own small denomination orals and vending them on a forum like this.


ALL THAT SAID

I respect your decision and hope you don’t feel like I’m nagging just to fuck with you.

 

[SymBiotics]

Could you elaborate on the issues you incur when attempting to make geometric dilutions for your capsule production? A lot of compounding pharmacies today still use this method with mortar and pestle and achieve very tight tolerances with potent medications. A while back I capsulated my own t3, which I made at 20mcg dosing and is deemed incredibly difficult to dilute properly, but most methods are accurate within 5-10% and that was good enough for me. Is there any particular aspect of it that is causing you problems?

Other than that I agree with your decision however you choose. I buy in bulk so liquids aren’t going to be my thing. Not trying to bust all over the way you run your business.

On the note of accuracy of dosing, I feel that suspensions are ideally easy to dose, but as opposed to encapsulating, suspensions are just moving the margin for dosing error over to the user, who is expected to properly mix(shake/swirl/etc.) the suspension before every dose.

I also understand the problems people have with wanting differently dosed capsules. Unlike a tablet you can't split a capsule, and even splitting a tablet is annoying as fuck since some can easily crumble. A while back I had a contact in china with access to a very small tablet production line. Would just ship the raws there and have them properly dilute and stamp the tablets into very small dose denominations, say 10mg clomid tablets, 5mg anavar tablets, or 2.5mg exemestane. In this way I could dose as accurately as I needed with the only inconvenience being the quantity of tablets needed for a dose. The tablets were so small It never was an inconvenience for me personally.

A tablet rotary press from china only costs a couple grand. As opposed to the fully automated 10-15k machines. At one point I heavily considered buying one and pressing my own small denomination orals and vending them on a forum like this.


ALL THAT SAID

I respect your decision and hope you don’t feel like I’m nagging just to fuck with you.

Issues with geometric dilution?? I don't have any.
Mixing the ingredients to homogeneity isn't a problem. The problem is that the needed weights to fill the capsules changes from batch to batch depending on the capsule empty weights and the weight of the excipient related to humidity and what I presume is entrapped moisture. I have not noticed this phenomenon with really any of the actives since they are all relatively hydrophobic; but sodium bicarbonate does definitely change in weight with differing humidity levels.
But no, I have no issues with method or math in the matter----it is the constant variability I find in my supplies that causes so much rework.

Also, I could never be satisfied with a 5-10% expected variance from the outset. My goal is to be exact; but sadly I have only gotten within 1mg of my target on maybe 3 different things. I'm still trying to perfect things. Hopefully I will get better with age

I would love to try my hand with a tablet press; but I believe that will never happen. Those things seem to be at the epicenter of 90% of the busts I have read about; so I am going to steer clear of that.

Regarding "moving the margin for dosing error over to the user, who is expected to properly mix(shake/swirl/etc.) the suspension before every dose": I just looked at both bottles of children's Tylenol and Motrin in my cabinet; and they both instruct the user to shake them well before each use. I really feel that shaking the bottle should not be an effort too challenging for anyone to perform to appropriately redistribute any settling of the solids in suspension.

Thank you for your questions and for giving me the opportunity to explain it to the best of my ability. I hope I have satisfied the questions you asked.

 

[Broskie]

Issues with geometric dilution?? I don't have any.
Mixing the ingredients to homogeneity isn't a problem. The problem is that the needed weights to fill the capsules changes from batch to batch depending on the capsule empty weights and the weight of the excipient related to humidity and what I presume is entrapped moisture. I have not noticed this phenomenon with really any of the actives since they are all relatively hydrophobic; but sodium bicarbonate does definitely change in weight with differing humidity levels.
But no, I have no issues with method or math in the matter----it is the constant variability I find in my supplies that causes so much rework.

Also, I could never be satisfied with a 5-10% expected variance from the outset. My goal is to be exact; but sadly I have only gotten within 1mg of my target on maybe 3 different things. I'm still trying to perfect things. Hopefully I will get better with age

I would love to try my hand with a tablet press; but I believe that will never happen. Those things seem to be at the epicenter of 90% of the busts I have read about; so I am going to steer clear of that.

Regarding "moving the margin for dosing error over to the user, who is expected to properly mix(shake/swirl/etc.) the suspension before every dose": I just looked at both bottles of children's Tylenol and Motrin in my cabinet; and they both instruct the user to shake them well before each use. I really feel that shaking the bottle should not be an effort too challenging for anyone to perform to appropriately redistribute any settling of the solids in suspension.

Thank you for your questions and for giving me the opportunity to explain it to the best of my ability. I hope I have satisfied the questions you asked.

Yes of course, this is a great response! Thanks for taking the time to reply Sym.

 

[rambosmurf]

so is there gonna be a new product list?
first order arrived perfectly sealed all products completed two days after shipped thanks

Yes. Some things were 5:1 preference in liquid according to the tally since I started.
I would assume that the liquid sales of some of them were driven by the amount of hormone available for the same price; but much of the reason is the dosage flexibility.
Without any overestimation, I have had at least 10 emails each day with requests for liquids and different dosages of capsules.
Stocking multiple capsule dosages is simply not possible for me; so suspensions will meet more of the needs for the majority of people.

True, it is more efficient for me to produce suspensions than capsules; albeit more expensive. In addition to the efficiency; the possibility of mistake is greatly reduced because to the decreased number of variables in the math for suspensions vs capsules.
I am unsure if it is common knowledge, but any two shipments of empty capsules will likely have significantly different weights. I am unsure of the reason for this manufacturing difference. A 3 mg weight difference, per capsule, will make a difference over 5000 capsules; and I believe it would be enough of a difference to make the dosages unreliable by my standards.. Also, the excipient (filler) will have a different weight depending on the humidity at the time of compounding. I was very surprised to find this out and see the significance through the math when doing my calculations. The potential weight differences between empty capsules and filler make having a standard "formula" impossible without a rigorously controlled humidity environment and capsule supply.
All of that means that each capsule batch is from a completely new formulation in which the empty capsules are weighed and weighed again when filled to max capacity of each filler and API. This is done the old fashioned way and not with any sort of powder calculator. I use a formula from legitimate compounding guide.
It's a good 1.5 hours of math and mess making before I can even compute the quantities needed for a batch.
Then the powders are blended for 6 hours in the v-blender.

What this means is that there are about a hundred chances for me to make a mistake; and I remove most of those chances with suspensions.

And in the end: the suspensions sell better. It has never been a secret that I want to maximize profit from this venture; so there is a significant financial component to the decision as well.

I feel certain that I will lose some customers who demand capsules; but that is a loss I can absorb since I know I will be less likely to produce an inconsistent product. I would much rather have 100 happy and healthy customers than 200 customers that take a chance on me messing up a capsule formula.

Regarding DNP:
It will definitely remain in capsule form until I no longer carry it. I can't imagine taking it in liquid since just the dust from it has permanently stained some of the nonporous surfaces in my lab yellow. I have 1Kg or raw DNP left, and I won't be ordering any more of it. It is laborious to deal with and I still don't really like the idea of distributing something lethal.

I apologize for any inconvenience these decisions may cause; but I believe they are the right decisions for everyone involved.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

I really feel that shaking the bottle should not be an effort too challenging for anyone to perform to appropriately redistribute any settling of the solids in suspension.

You wouldn't think so, but you're selling your goods to people that are so helpless they can't find your email address without help and others that can't get their own mailing address right when they place an order with you.

You better write the instructions in big sloppy kid lettering with a crayon if you want to get your point across to some of these goofs.

 

[JC Grifter]

You wouldn't think so, but you're selling your goods to people that are so helpless they can't find your email address without help and others that can't get their own mailing address right when they place an order with you.

You better write the instructions in big sloppy kid lettering with a crayon if you want to get your point across to some of these goofs.

You make a really good point [emoji16]

 

[Broskie]

You wouldn't think so, but you're selling your goods to people that are so helpless they can't find your email address without help and others that can't get their own mailing address right when they place an order with you.

You better write the instructions in big sloppy kid lettering with a crayon if you want to get your point across to some of these goofs.

I was thinking essentially the same thing when I made the point lol

Goofs
Idiots
People who know better but laziness gets to them
People who just plain forget
People who think “shake well” is just twisting the bottle a couple times around a central point of axis and not actually shaking the thing.

This little corner of the internet doesn’t exactly garner the most ept individuals.

It’s surprising how many questions on quora or yahoo are “do you REALLY have to shake a bottle that says shake well?”