SymBiotics (U.S. domestic)

@SymBiotics

Regarding your products in suspensions:

What is the declared shelf life past the date of compounding?

Does it differ by compound?

How do you come to the decision regarding that shelf life length?

Can you offer any supporting evidence to justify that decision over your declared shelf life?

Reason i ask is because suspending some API's dramatically affects their stability, leading to large reductions in potency & storage conditions (eg kept refrigerated or not) can compound matters further. Eg the potency of some can drop to something around around 60% of the initial dosed in just 3 days after compounding, where other will retain 99% after 90 days. Unfortunately this is not something you see discussed much on gear forums.

My concern really is guys could be buying originally accurately dosed products that degrade before the bottle is finished, particulary if they don't start using them as soon as they arrive. I'd also assume most guys who get their gear lab tested do it reasonably quickly after receipt & as your testing is coming back consistently good, that may give a false sense of security.

As Stamford is also offering compounds in suspension, i'll post the same questions in his thread as that's only fair.

To begin with:

I do not recall declaring a shelf-life for my products.

I have told many people that I personally use some things from over a year ago; but I have never “declared” anything of the sort. These drugs are illegal and prepared by a guy that makes a living in a different field. I haven't and won't declare any sort of shelf life on anything.

I think some common knowledge would apply to most things, such as: If you leave it in the truck in July; it's probably not good anymore---- If it is growing mold; don't drink it.---- If you bought it a year ago and feel sketchy about using it; don't use it. I don't know if a lot of guys that buy these things do so to stockpile for Armageddon; but if that is the case----- I have no recommendations.

Please forward me the information of these PED medications that are reduced to 60% efficacy by suspension. I have not found this in hours of exhaustive searching; and the information would be vital to my work on this.

The suspending vehicle I use is a commercially prepared formulation from a regional pharmacy supply company. I would assume it is very similar to the Humco and Ora brands. I know that the suspending agents in the vehicle are: microcystalline cellulose, carboxymethylcellulose, xanthan gum, and caragenan. It is slightly acidic with pH of 5 and is stable at ambient temperature of ~70 degrees F.

There is limited information available about suspension for many APIs. It has been documented that the following APIs were tested in suspension at 90 days; and at least 90% of the API was detected by HPLC:

oxandrolone

tamoxifen

sildenafil

tadalafil

letrozole

anastrozole

raloxifene

stanozolol (aqueous suspension).

All of these, with the exception of stanozolol, were extemporaneously compounded in a vehicle nearly identical to the one I use.

It is my assumption that other steroid hormones would behave similarly to oxandrolone since they share some common solvents and chemical/physical properties; but there is no high quality data regarding this assumption. I suspect that is because the use of oxymetholone and metandienone is relatively rare in human medicine any more; and some of the chemicals we use were never intended for humans to begin with.

With that said; I have had no doubts about their efficacy in the time period that I have used them.

The common precaution I have found regarding hormone degradation is regarding light: not pH or temperature.

As with everything else, recommendations change frequently. There is a guide on the USP website with new blanket recommendations from 2019. These recommendations do not align with what I have experienced in my personal use; nor do they align with the literature from the tests that have been performed on the above listed compounds.

If interested, there is some information that can be found by using the DOI or webpage links below.

DOI 10.2146/ajhp100225
DOI 10.2146/ajhp110034
https: //www.sefh.es/fichadjuntos/EXTPREP_citos.pdf
https: //www.usp.org/sites/default/files/usp/document/our-work/compounding/usp-bud-factsheet.pdf

The short version of my stance on it is: 1) there is no literature supporting degradation in suspension of the APIs that I offer in suspension; and 2) I do not intend to make batches large enough that I would question their efficacy for months after I sell them.

I, personally, would not use a 3 year old suspension or tablet/capsule.

In the end, I make absolutely no declarations of the long-term storage and efficacy of anything I offer. I do still use things I made in 2017 with good results; but that is a personal experience story; not an advisement or declaration of shelf life.
 
I don’t know if anyone still follows blood work for this source, but here is mine from last week.
Background: TRT is 60mg test c twice a week. I’ve been doing this for years and I know what my numbers look like at any given part of the distribution from peak to trough. For reference, the last set of bloods done were five days post injection—which is a day later than I usually go, but I wanted to see what my levels looked like if I waited an extra 24hrs—and I came in at ~330 TT. So what I did for this set of bloods was as follows: took my usual dose on Sunday, then Thursday evening I took 37.5mg of Sym’s test pp instead of my usual test c. Results are below and are consistent with what I would have seen with a larger dose of c. Makes sense given the short fuse of the PP ester. All-in-all I’ve really like test pp. Aside from good blood work the feeeelz are pretty noticeable. Anyway, that’s all I can contribute as of now.
CC: @SymBiotics

View attachment 128327
Thank you for posting the results.
I think I am interpreting that you are satisfied with these results??
Please email me if or when you want to collect credit for this.
 
@SymBiotics are you planning on keeping your primo brew the same? Any plans for a non eo guac version. I don't see the need for eo or guac with primo.

There really is no need for either
I will be doing this in the future. I have had a few requests for it.
I used my current recipe because I got it from one of the more 'revered' brewers from some time ago. It always treated me very well.
I haven't ever fully understood the aversion to EO. I know that I found it pleasant and that pharmacom uses it in every injectable oil in varying percentages; so I just assumed it was well tolerated.
For guaiacol, I found that it has mild anesthetic properties and is pleasant (to me) in injection. The odor isn't particularly desirable; but I suppose it has grown on me as well lol.
But, yes, I will make some without EO or guaiacol.
 
I hope you all had a happy Easter. It was strange to not be able to attend church today. There is no doubt that events from this year will be in school text books for the future generations.
I finally got around to adding Halotestin to my list. I also added bacteriostatic sterile water that I made in preparation for HCG and hGH if the analyses return favorable results.
One thing of note: Shipping to the West coast is terribly slow recently. Please be patient with these packages; they are all on the way but they are taking some bizarre trips around the nation. Actually, many deliveries are taking unusual routes lately; and I have no explanation for it.
Thank you to everyone who has ordered from me.

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I hope you all had a happy Easter. It was strange to not be able to attend church today. There is no doubt that events from this year will be in school text books for the future generations.
I finally got around to adding Halotestin to my list. I also added bacteriostatic sterile water that I made in preparation for HCG and hGH if the analyses return favorable results.
One thing of note: Shipping to the West coast is terribly slow recently. Please be patient with these packages; they are all on the way but they are taking some bizarre trips around the nation. Actually, many deliveries are taking unusual routes lately; and I have no explanation for it.
Thank you to everyone who has ordered from me.

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Did I read this right that you plan on carrying hcg and HGH if testing comes back good?
 
I hope you all had a happy Easter. It was strange to not be able to attend church today. There is no doubt that events from this year will be in school text books for the future generations.
I finally got around to adding Halotestin to my list. I also added bacteriostatic sterile water that I made in preparation for HCG and hGH if the analyses return favorable results.
One thing of note: Shipping to the West coast is terribly slow recently. Please be patient with these packages; they are all on the way but they are taking some bizarre trips around the nation. Actually, many deliveries are taking unusual routes lately; and I have no explanation for it.
Thank you to everyone who has ordered from me.

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Awesome! hope the test come out well! Looking for some HCG so it would be perfect timing. lol
 
Did I read this right that you plan on carrying hcg and HGH if testing comes back good?

Howsabout we takes a deeper look see?

I also added bacteriostatic sterile water that I made in preparation for hcg and hGH if the analyses return favorable results.

From whats i can decipher, he's fixin' to never carry either of them thingys. i ain't no fancy pants schoolin' teacher, so i could be wrong, but that's what i gather from them long words he done writ right there.
 
I recently placed an order, and it took less than a week from the time funds were received and arriving at my door. Excellent turn around time and the packaging was very impressive. The order process was also very fast and professional.
Shipping is very strange these days. As @SymBiotics pointed out, shipping is slow to the west, but it also seems to be affecting other regions as well. I recently placed an order that included hazmat shipping, something I have done many times with the same company. Keep in mind, this company is a state away and I usually get packages of this type within 3 days. It took an additional 300 mile trip PAST my location, before returning to the local distribution hub. In total, it took nearly 2 weeks to arrive. My point being, shipping is very strange with all that is going on, so be patient if anything seems to be taking longer than usual. Thanks again @SymBiotics
 
Howsabout we takes a deeper look see?

I also added bacteriostatic sterile water that I made in preparation for hcg and hGH if the analyses return favorable results.

From whats i can decipher, he's fixin' to never carry either of them thingys. i ain't no fancy pants schoolin' teacher, so i could be wrong, but that's what i gather from them long words he done writ right there.
Eat a dick amputee tits
 
I recently placed an order, and it took less than a week from the time funds were received and arriving at my door. Excellent turn around time and the packaging was very impressive. The order process was also very fast and professional.
Shipping is very strange these days. As @SymBiotics pointed out, shipping is slow to the west, but it also seems to be affecting other regions as well. I recently placed an order that included hazmat shipping, something I have done many times with the same company. Keep in mind, this company is a state away and I usually get packages of this type within 3 days. It took an additional 300 mile trip PAST my location, before returning to the local distribution hub. In total, it took nearly 2 weeks to arrive. My point being, shipping is very strange with all that is going on, so be patient if anything seems to be taking longer than usual. Thanks again @SymBiotics
He's solid for sure, thanks for sharing.
 
I think out of 3 orders the longest I ever waited was 4ish days. He doesn't send tracking or risk "pack shipped" emails, but this is for his and the buyers safety. Thanks Sym for the solid performance especially after the early hiccup with bluestreak or whatever that hacking, blackmailing douchebag was handled as!
A++++ Symbiotics
 
I will be doing this in the future. I have had a few requests for it.
I used my current recipe because I got it from one of the more 'revered' brewers from some time ago. It always treated me very well.
I haven't ever fully understood the aversion to EO. I know that I found it pleasant and that pharmacom uses it in every injectable oil in varying percentages; so I just assumed it was well tolerated.
For guaiacol, I found that it has mild anesthetic properties and is pleasant (to me) in injection. The odor isn't particularly desirable; but I suppose it has grown on me as well lol.
But, yes, I will make some without EO or guaiacol.

Great to hear - I'll definitely be in line for this, for whatever reason it completely wrecked my body - loved the 200/ml but had to go to back to 100/ml in GSO (I believe) due to the negative sides.
 
TD, thank you for the fast turnaround and accurate fulfillment--and again, I feel like a fat thumbed monkey trying to get through all the packing. Very, very well packed as before.

Lastly, @SymBiotics I too would be in for a run with primo without guaiacol. I have zero issues with EO, we get along swimmingly, but guaiacol tears me up with horrible pip, redness and swelling. Tried a few different compounds from two sources over past couple years with it, and I am apparently one of the few with a real sensitivity--which honestly is fine as I also hate the smell of it. Huge fan of Pcom's Primo with EO--just wish it wasn't $140 a vial. I pay it, but would certainly welcome a reasonable alternative.
 
thank you Sym, quick TD, all looks professional & vacuum sealed. surprised u managed to ship all that in one pack. I would start using DNP very soon then after that start my AAS cut cycle as recommended by @Eman .
i took pics of everything after unboxing of course, but unsure if posting only the gear is risky. please ask Millard to take it down if so.

@SymBiotics i keep my vials and gear in zip bags in my bathroom closet at room temperature, amid the talks about potency degradation and shelf life, do you think my storage method might degrade the product? if so how should i store it?
 

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