SymBiotics (U.S. domestic)

[2lean]

I mean the ones we make fun of ASF or BoP boards. There’s no paying sources here. No way.

This whole floater thing is an embarrassment to us all.

Gotcha, from that I take it that paid isn’t better

 

[DrinkFlintWater]

Hello everyone.
I believe I have reached a conclusion on the source of contaminant(s) and formed a plan for remedy of any chance of foreign matter entering vials.
Contaminant source:
A: I feel almost 100% certain that any fibers found inside the vials would be cellulose or polypropylene fibers from the sterilization wraps I used for my vial trays. In all honesty, I was somewhat surprised at how commonplace it is for sterilization wraps and sterile gowns to shed fibers. I will try to code a link and add a pdf with informative information about the subject at the end of this post. I have never coded a link here; so I am unsure how but I will try. I the links work, there is an image of the type of 'lint' I saw on my gloves that prompted me to discard the sheets and 28 vial trays a while back. It may be in the PDF; I can't remember. I have read and looked at an enormous amount of information. What I encountered was nothing as severe as the picture; but it was the same color and texture.
B: Hematite or iron oxide (rust) is one of the most frequent contaminants found in sterile liquid pharmaceutical products. Some articles claim that it is the most frequent contaminant. Any black specks seen within the vials will most likely be rust particles from vial manufacturing or, again, from the sterilization wraps manufacturing equipment.
C: It is possible that things floating in the air can get in the vial during the time my smaller trays are exposed before the wrap is applied. I am very careful and practice very good hygiene when this is done; but I do not have a certified clean-room and I am not sterile during the vial transfer to my autoclave trays.

Please keep in mind that this is common enough for billion-dollar pharmaceutical companies and hospital surgical suites to have encountered the same issues-----prompting articles to be written and resolution strategies to be designed. While I do my very best to do a good job at this; I am not nearly as equipped as many entities who have had similar issues. In short----I have done the absolute best I could do with what I had to work with.

Going forward:
From my deduction, there is a singular root cause to any potential contamination of a vial; and that is the process of sterilization of the vials. I have looked for hours at different sterile vial suppliers and I have found one with vials that are of nearly the same dimensions as mine but do not have the blowback ridge for the stopper since they are not North American made. This is not a problem and I intend to use these pre-sterilized vials for any future injectable preparations.
I am not using pre-sterilized vials because they will be 'more sterile' than my process; but because they are sterilized by gamma radiation and have no contact with synthetic or natural fiber wraps. It will cost me more money; but will take a step out of my process that will benefit everyone.

Existing stock:
I'm not going to empty out all of those vials and re-filter them. I'm just not. The contents of those vials are sterile and I have not found one single fiber/floater/pube/or otherwise in them. I'm not finished with them yet; but I haven't found anything so far EXCEPT some inclusions that look like black spots within the walls of a few of the vials. This is a common problem that is discussed in one of the links I have as well if anyone would like to read about it. These black spots are rust also and they are contained within the glass; so there is no way that they could ever enter the body through injecting the contents of the vial. The injectable vials will still be available for purchase after each one is examined and then examined again under blacklight.

Refunds and reshipments:
Nothing has changed about the way I stand behind my products. Anyone who has any product that has:

1. a bad analytical test (with a legitimate report),
   
2. a vial with visible contaminants (with a photo of the contaminant), or
   
3. an omission/mistake in their order

will receive his/her choice of an immediate refund for the affected container(s) or a reshipment of the same value.

I was very caught off guard by this whole thing and I was/am embarrassed about it.
However, in the last couple of days there have been many people who emailed me to demand their entire order be replaced, including oral suspensions and armodafinil.
One even threatened to ruin my "bitch ass in the anabolic world" if I didn't refund AND reship his order. I do not respond to threats well.
I am not going to reship or refund full orders as some sort of expectation; and those representatives of the community have completely removed any excess generosity I had going into this problem resolution.
I do not mind helping and I require myself to make amends; but I will certainly not be taken advantage of in that way.

I am open to any questions or comments and I am always willing to work for an amicable solution. This is a sound theory of contamination possibility and a sound proposal for remedy of any future contamination potential.

I am very very tired and I need to sleep tonight. I realize that there will be some emails that pass the 24 hour mark before I can reply in the morning; but I have gone as long as I can without sleep now.
No person will be left with an issue that is not addressed. Just please remember that there are 10x as many worried-well emails as there are potential issues and each person gets the same level of attention. Emails are answered in the order they are received; except for new order emails which are left to the autoreply only.

I want to briefly inquire about the widespread inability to take photographs of these contaminants:
My phone is fairly old; but it has a 8mp camera that takes very good photos.
In the photos below there is a speck I saw in a NPP vial. It is tiny and is circled in blue. It was actually on the label and circled in blue in the 2nd picture although I mangled the label when trying to remove it. Yes, this is in my bathroom and this is from my personal supplies that are the same as what I send out in packages. And yes, that is a floss pick beside it for reference of size. The point of these pictures is to show that my ordinary phone can take pictures of very tiny specks at very close distances. Also, of note is that I did not see that until I looked into the vial for about 2 minutes.
View attachment 133293
View attachment 133292

The link for the article is here. I hope it is done right.

https://www.mccrone.com/mm/contaminant-identification-pharmaceutical-products/

Damn Sym, where'd ya take these pics at, Hammers house? Lol

 

[Boss hog]

I read here this morning and I didn't understand what I had posted that was so wrong---until I reread my post after I woke up good.

I can only assume it was because I was tired; but I could have sworn that I typed in there that: the existing stock will be 15% off across the entire injectable line with the caveat that the lots with contaminants could have not been isolated.
This will not be stackable with the XMR discount.
Speaking of XMR: there have been new developments in the effort for cryptocurrency tracking that have caused me to pause on the 'XMR only' currency policy. I do not have enough information to say anything for sure; but I will update as i know more.

I am still not open for new business because I am still nowhere near going through it all.

It will be a week to 10 days before the sterile vials are delivered and more days to have them filled and labeled.

I can only guess that I was thinking about it the way that I would read it. This is what I thought as I typed:
I determined the source of possible contamination to be my vial sterilization.
I am no longer going to sterilize my own vials.
I am not refiltering or throwing away what I have; so people can buy them at a discount or I will use them until I am 2046 years old.
I am not open for new business right now.

I didn't see anything wrong with saying those things; but I was incorrect for assuming it would be read the same way by everyone else.
I never intended a flippant or disrespectful attitude in anything I wrote. However I will admit that my mood was less than tolerant after some of my email conversations.
Still I did not intend any sort of rude tone to come through my type.

Also, @Rival and @limitphobic : Our business was already dealt with in my mind; so none of the photo comments applied to you guys. In fact, I am unsure if it applied to anyone posting here. If we have not handled business; please give me some time to get through the emails. I never make promises; but I do promise to handle each person with the same level of customer service. I am just currently inundated with emails.

Also, I will announce here when the new vials are ready. At that point I will announce the method for becoming an exclusive supplier.

Offering up a discount is pure BS to sweep your mistake up under the rug. Most newbies will still jump on that sorry ass deal to pinch a few pennies, but there alot of us that have been in this game for years and know at Minimum you should refilter all vials that could be effected by this.

 

[jbil75]

Gotcha, from that I take it that paid isn’t better

So some people actually pay to be on steroid message board? I’ve heard of people paying to be on recruiting boards for football to try to get inside info but never for anything like this . What’s the sales pitch ?

 

[cochino]

What an insult. Sym just insulted everyone here. I guess when you have dicksuckers you can get away with anything. 15% discount. Fuck you guys are easy.

 

[DrinkFlintWater]

What an insult. Sym just insulted everyone here. I guess when you have dicksuckers you can get away with anything. 15% discount. Fuck you guys are easy.

Exactly. To sum up, " fuck you MESO, I didnt find shit, I'm "sure" some of you did, but I found nothing. I'll keep looking for now but business will continue soon. Fuck you and have a nice fucking day"

 

[KingCahoot3627]

Exactly. To sum up, " fuck you MESO, I didnt find shit, I'm "sure" some of you did, but I found nothing. I'll keep looking for now but business will continue soon. Fuck you and have a nice fucking day"

I don't interpret that message from his posts. I'm reading Sym's posts as saying "I see the contaminants and I don't believe they are harmful."

 

[JC Grifter]

Well I’m out. The dangerous fuck up plus the sub par response/plan should be more than enough for most of his customers to walk away. It’s a shame but based on history, bound to happen. There will be other good sources to pop up and replace Sym. I think it’s a horrible idea to lower the bar for the next source based on what some of the reaction is here. This disaster should be incentive for the next good domestic source to have even higher standards than what Sym started with. What has happened here should never be tolerated as people’s lives and health have been placed in jeopardy. This should not be take lightly nor should have Syms’ response.

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

Exactly. To sum up, " fuck you MESO, I didnt find shit, I'm "sure" some of you did, but I found nothing. I'll keep looking for now but business will continue soon. Fuck you and have a nice fucking day"

What an insult. Sym just insulted everyone here. I guess when you have dicksuckers you can get away with anything. 15% discount. Fuck you guys are easy.

It might seem like a lot of dick suckers because of the posts. But I don’t think it’s enough for a customer base.

There are FAR more lurkers than posters on MESO anyway. Guys that read but don’t want to put themselves on the board. Hopefully they read this thread and keep up because as the guys that have been here long enough to remember previous sources, this isn’t how MESO usually operates. This is a 2nd chance that typically never happens. The lurkers represent a decent customer base.

There will always be another source to come along and compete. Guys shouldn’t be scared to lose sources.

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

I don't interpret that message from his posts. I'm reading Sym's posts as saying "I see the contaminants and I don't believe they are harmful."

*Groan*

No offense man, but it’s these kinds of posts that get me antsy to reverse my “2nd chance” and gets me wanting to light matches and watch this mother burn!

Shit floating in vials is NEVER acceptable!

 

[Oldschool]

*Groan*

No offense man, but it’s these kinds of posts that get me antsy to reverse my “2nd chance” and gets me wanting to light matches and watch this mother burn!

Shit floating in vials is NEVER acceptable!

No worries. Everything is sterile.

 

[dokdonia]

"[15% off] will not be stackable with the XMR discount" LMAO. And to top it all off, you're going to make someone pay $40+ or whatever more than they otherwise would have to buy the supplies to filter your dirty gear? GTFO.

 

[Mdrock98]

It’s kinda of hard to toss thousand dollar+ of gear that you purchased..

But I rather toss the money which can be built up again rather than loosing a chunk of my ass cheek. Paranoia? Maybe?

Ughh. This really sucks.

I can’t lie, for me to rebuild what I bought from sym is going to cost me a lot more. The good news is that my vials are clean..

This fucking sucks.

Christ.

 

[Boss hog]

I don't interpret that message from his posts. I'm reading Sym's posts as saying "I see the contaminants and I don't believe they are harmful."

Wow.... and you are going to trust a internet drug dealer on his word that he doesnt believe they are harmfull. When in fact that is not quite the truth about the situation. These contaminants have the potential to harm anyone one of us that inject it. No one is immune to a possible sterile abscess, no one!

 

[Oldschool]

@SymBiotics at his lab.

 

[jbil75]

It might seem like a lot of dick suckers because of the posts. But I don’t think it’s enough for a customer base.

There are FAR more lurkers than posters on MESO anyway. Guys that read but don’t want to put themselves on the board. Hopefully they read this thread and keep up because as the guys that have been here long enough to remember previous sources, this isn’t how MESO usually operates. This is a 2nd chance that typically never happens. The lurkers represent a decent customer base.

There will always be another source to come along and compete. Guys shouldn’t be scared to lose sources.

No way he has enough customers on this board to survive here after this. I just don’t see it happening. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

 

[Boss hog]

It’s kinda of hard to toss thousand dollar+ of gear that you purchased..

But I rather toss the money which can be built up again rather than loosing a chunk of my ass cheek. Paranoia? Maybe?

Ughh. This really sucks.

I can’t lie, for me to rebuild what I bought from sym is going to cost me a lot more. The good news is that my vials are clean..

This fucking sucks.

Christ.

I personally wouldn't toss it out because of this. Just refilter into sterile vials to remove any debries that may or may not be in there. Its been discussed in several post about how to do. In my opinion 20 bucks in a few supplies to refilter all your gear is well worth it.

 

[KingCahoot3627]

*Groan*

No offense man, but it’s these kinds of posts that get me antsy to reverse my “2nd chance” and gets me wanting to light matches and watch this mother burn!

Shit floating in vials is NEVER acceptable!

No offense taken. I don't use the source so no reason for me defend him. My response was to the post that stated he was denying contaminants. I thought Sym acknowledged the problem, albeit with what I see as an insffucient resolution. As far as I can tell, I agree with you.

 

[Villain]

Gotcha, from that I take it that paid isn’t better

Far worse, because the sponsors are paying the board to stay safe and protected from such crap as this. So if Sym were at a paid board, any single one of us who dared point this out would be banned and Sym would be able to continue business as usual. As it is, it appears he has enough dick suckers here that are basically doing the same thing.

So some people actually pay to be on steroid message board? I’ve heard of people paying to be on recruiting boards for football to try to get inside info but never for anything like this . What’s the sales pitch ?

No, the sources are paying to be there and they receive protection.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Your intro pics show a flow vent hood. Do you not use that thing anymore, or was that just for looks and belongs to someone else? If you’re opening your clave bags in the hood, there should be nothing floating around in there to get into the vials, except the possible particles from the bags as you described. Even then, that doesn’t really sound plausible. There are UGL’s which don’t even have a flow hood and they don’t have particles in their gear, so I’m not sure I really buy this.

I pretty much question how rust is created in the process of making your vials, and even if that were a possibility, why did you not catch these? Same with the rubber or butyl stoppers and the aluminum caps. Like literally, you are the only person this has seemingly happened to. Aluminum rusting just from being manufactured or autoclaved? Come on. There is no iron in aluminum, so please explain how rust is created? Oxidization, possibly. That’s the biggest load of garbage I’ve ever seen and it makes me think you’re just trying to act scientific and us dumb meatheads will just buy it. Also, the caps never touch the inner vial, so how would said particles be getting past the stopper and into your vials? Maybe you didn’t flush your lines prior to dispensing.

You are refusing to refilter your gear and are just going to continue to sell stuff that is possibly contaminated? And don’t give me crap that your particles are sterile. It’s still a foreign contaminant that could cause a sterile abscess.

In short, your excuses are lame and your action plan sucks.

Havnt read past this yet.
But I was thinking the same thing.
It has to be foreign contamination.
I dont understand how stopper particulates or rust/iron/steel could play a role here.

I'll say this, just because an area LOOKS clean, doesnt mean it IS clean.
(Take an air sample and put in under a microscope... shit is like a horror story)

I also dont buy "Sterile chunks"
The basic reality is that your body will eat away and try to dispose of any foreign objects in your body, once your bodies defense mechanisms get past the exterior layer of said foreign object.... who's to say what happens.

I'm pretty confident in saying that this is an environmental/facility based issue.

Good catch.