T4+HGH off test cycle, advisable?

[johnnyBALLZ]

That article was written by Anthony Roberts, not Bill Roberts. Bill Roberts wouldn't write nonsense like that.

Ah, I'm always mixing those two names up!!

So it's bullshit??

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Ah, I'm always mixing those two names up!!

So it's bullshit??

I just skimmed it and it looks like there's some factual information, but he's using the facts to make huge leaps in logic and his conclusions are nothing more than wild speculation. IOW, typical Anthony Roberts.

 

[Sampei]

yeah my question was not the side effect of normal use of T4 but using it with HGH.

 

[mands]

This article doesn't support your assertion that there is some magical property of T4 deiodination to T3 that makes that T3 more effective than the T3 you get in tablets. And it say nothing about GH. It's basic patient information on levothyroxine replacement. That's it.

Oh CBS he asks for side effects and I showed them for him. I highlighted another area that me and Doc were talking about tapering.

Try again!

mands

 

[mands]

Ah, I'm always mixing those two names up!!

So it's bullshit??

It's certainly not bullshit. CBS is grasping at shit because I called his poser ass out.

I just skimmed it and it looks like there's some factual information, but he's using the facts to make huge leaps in logic and his conclusions are nothing more than wild speculation. IOW, typical Anthony Roberts.

Hahahaha imagine that. CBS go play somewhere else.

yeah my question was not the side effect of normal use of T4 but using it with HGH.

Side effects are no different running it for "normal" use or when used in conjunction with GH. I guess I'm not getting the question.

mands

 

[Sampei]

It's certainly not bullshit. CBS is grasping at shit because I called his poser ass out.


Hahahaha imagine that. CBS go play somewhere else.


Side effects are no different running it for "normal" use or when used in conjunction with GH. I guess I'm not getting the question.

mands

I know that t3 can fuck up tyroids very easily and then you have to use t3 for your whole life. Is t4 the same or its milder and easier to recovery?

 

[mands]

I know that t3 can fuck up tyroids very easily and then you have to use t3 for your whole life. Is t4 the same or its milder and easier to recovery?

I personally have NOT read or seen any evidence that t3 or t4 supplementation will cause natural production to not return to normal. I believe it returns pretty quickly.

mands

 

[Sampei]

I personally have NOT read or seen any evidence that t3 or t4 supplementation will cause natural production to not return to normal. I believe it returns pretty quickly.

mands

I'm not to sure about it. I believe that T3 used for to long can cause a permanent shut down or a down regulation of tyroids.

But maybe we could get a chime in by @Dr JIM and @Michael Scally MD

 

[Dr JIM]

Routine thyroid supplementation is NOT necessary based on clinical studies when GH is used.

The recommendation is to obtain BASELINE thyroid function values and repeat the assays in 2-3 months in the majority of patients.

 

[mands]

Routine thyroid supplementation is NOT necessary based on clinical studies when GH is used.

The recommendation is to obtain BASELINE thyroid function values and repeat the assays in 2-3 months in the majority of patients.

This is what I have read as well...

I think the question that the @Sampei is asking, will thyroid return to functioning correctly after t3 or t4 use.

He didn't take my word for it so I think he's asking you my man!!!!

mands

 

[Sampei]

Don't take it personally man. I prefer to get more then one opinion on medical matters. And if anyone is able to post any studies on tyroids supplementation on healthy individual I would love it.

I'll already end up on trt, if I can as void to fuck up my tyroids as well I would be glad ahah

If it's not needed to supplement t4 on hgh use, why do you use it ?

This is what I have read as well...

I think the question that the @Sampei is asking, will thyroid return to functioning correctly after t3 or t4 use.

He didn't take my word for it so I think he's asking you my man!!!!

mands

 

[mands]

Don't take it personally man. I prefer to get more then one opinion on medical matters. And if anyone is able to post any studies on tyroids supplementation on healthy individual I would love it.

I'll already end up on trt, if I can as void to fuck up my tyroids as well I would be glad ahah

If it's not needed to supplement t4 on hgh use, why do you use it ?

I posted why I use it. It enhances the effects of the GH.

mands

 

[Sampei]

I posted why I used it. It enhances the effects of the GH.

mands

Have you checked your tyroids before use and after use?

Do you have labs on it to be sure it goes back to work fine?

 

[mands]

Yes sir!

I run a full blood panel three times a year. I've had no issues with my Thyriod after discontinued use of t4.

mands

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

It's certainly not bullshit. CBS is grasping at shit because I called his poser ass out.

It's bullshit. Unmitigated bullshit.

From Anthony Roberts Article:

"This is because Local 5′-deiodination of l-thyroxine (T4) to active the thyroid hormone 3,3′,5-tri-iodothyronine (T3) is catalyzed by the two 5′-deiodinase enzymes (D1 and D2)."

"This is because with adequate T4 and excess T3, (D1 and D2) deiodinase is no longer needed for conversion of T4 into T3, but levels of D3 deiodinase will be elevated. When there is less of the first two types of deidinase, it would seem that the T3 which has been converted to T4 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects), as those first two types are responsible for mediation of many of the effects T3 has on the body. This seems to be one of the ways deiodinase contributes to anabolism in the presence of other hormones."​

AR is saying the deiodination of T4 to T3 requires two isoenzymes, D1 and D2, which is true. He then claims that when there is less D1 and D2, the T3 which has been converted to T4 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects).

That is utter bullshit. To begin with, without D1 and D2, there will be no deiodination of T4 to T3.

Secondly, T3 does not convert to T4. Perhaps that was a typo and AR really meant "T4 which has been converted to T3 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects)." It's still bullshit. Never mind the fact that without D1 and D2 there be no "excess T3" because there will be no conversion process, there is no protein sparing effect from T3, either - whether the excess T3 was deiodinated from T4 or came from exogenous T3, the effect is still the same: excess T3 is NOT protein sparing.

The article is a joke. Pure bullshit that sounds credible to the uninitiated. AR knows just enough physiology to misapply the research to reach an erroneous conclusion that sounds good.

If you want to attach your credibility to Anthony Roberts, a fraud who chose Bill Roberts' surname as a pseudonym because he thought it would give him credibility, be my guest. AR is full of shit and so are you for backing this piece of garbage masquerading as a scientifically sound article.

 

[mands]

It's bullshit. Unmitigated bullshit.

From Anthony Roberts Article:

"This is because Local 5′-deiodination of l-thyroxine (T4) to active the thyroid hormone 3,3′,5-tri-iodothyronine (T3) is catalyzed by the two 5′-deiodinase enzymes (D1 and D2)."

"This is because with adequate T4 and excess T3, (D1 and D2) deiodinase is no longer needed for conversion of T4 into T3, but levels of D3 deiodinase will be elevated. When there is less of the first two types of deidinase, it would seem that the T3 which has been converted to T4 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects), as those first two types are responsible for mediation of many of the effects T3 has on the body. This seems to be one of the ways deiodinase contributes to anabolism in the presence of other hormones."​

AR is saying the deiodination of T4 to T3 requires two isoenzymes, D1 and D2, which is true. He then claims that when there is less D1 and D2, the T3 which has been converted to T4 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects).

That is utter bullshit. To begin with, without D1 and D2, there will be no deiodination of T4 to T3.

Secondly, T3 does not convert to T4. Perhaps that was a typo and AR really meant "T4 which has been converted to T3 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects)." It's still bullshit. Never mind the fact that without D1 and D2 there be no "excess T3" because there will be no conversion process, there is no protein sparing effect from T3, either - whether the excess T3 was deiodinated from T4 or came from exogenous T3, the effect is still the same.

The article is a joke. Pure bullshit the sounds credible to the uninitiated. AR knows just enough physiology to misapply the research to reach an erroneous conclusion.

If you want to attach your credibility to Anthony Roberts, a fraud who chose Bill Roberts' surname as a pseudonym because he thought it would give him credibility, be my guest. AR is full of shit and so are you for backing this piece of garbage masquerading as a scientifically sound article.

I'm all for your scientific studies CBS and that's all you can do on this board is post them up and it's nice to have but you are acting like you know why AR used a surname is beyond preposterous.

Please tell me where you get this shit? Come back to reality.

Hey CBS why don't you run a GH cycle with and without T4 and you tell me the difference. Hahaha this will never happen because you have studies to tell you the effects.

mands

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

I'm all for your scientific studies CBS and that's all you can do on this board is post them up and it's nice to have but you are acting like you know why AR used a surname is beyond preposterous.

Please tell me where you get this shit?

Bill Roberts himself. I'm not looking for the link because I really don't care. AR's reputation as a fraud is well established.

 

[mands]

Bill Roberts himself. I'm not looking for the link because I really don't care. AR's reputation as a fraud is well established.

Hey I've called AR out on a few things but I have never heard about his surname. lol That just seems ridiculous. Do you are Bill have a scientific study proving this or is this just opinion or word of mouth. Bro-science maybe?

mands

 

[Sampei]

Yes sir!

I run a full blood panel three times a year. I've had no issues with my Thyriod after discontinued use of t4.

mands

Can you tell me, dosage and how long you use it, cycles etc?

 

[mands]

I will run my GH about 5-6 months and I will usually take off about 1-2 months. I will usually run my t4 as long as it takes for bf% to start dropping. It usually starts about three weeks into it and depending on much I wanna lose is when I determine when to stop or just freak out when the scale starts coming down so I will stop. lol

A buddy runs it all though summer and that's all he will run it. Stops after summer and starts back up in the spring/summer of the next year.

mands