Test C, Tren A, Oxandrolone cycle log

[wsmwannabe]

Day 25 Update:

Well I had a cheat/refeed last night, ate a bunch of pizza and a bit of ice cream. My gut is fine as long as I am eating clean, but man I pay for it when I eat garbage. However this should set me up for a good axle deadlift/stone workout tonight. Woke up at 247.8 today, yesterday I woke up at 246.4, I fully expected to hold onto all of that water after eating pizza though.

Yesterday’s BodPod results absolutely shocked me. I got in expecting to be 18-19% BF and was really just hoping for sub 20%. Then I saw the 16.7% and damn near flipped. I know I’m sure I’ll get some “are you sure it was calibrated” type of comments based on my (terrible) photos that I post, but the BodPod is the most accurate way to measure aside from a DXA scan. I also carry a VAST majority of my fat in my mid section, and I am just not a good photo taker. Also, consider that it is a percentage of my body weight, if I was 200 lbs with 41 lbs BF I would be ~20%, but I am just shy of 250.

Nothing new to report as far as sides or training. I feel great, I look decent and sides have been minimal, as previously mentioned in all of my posts. I think I would be dealing with insomnia due to sleeping so hot if I did not have a heated/cooled mattress. There are times I get hot and have to adjust the temperature, but I am able to fall back asleep. I am recovering really well between workouts as well.

Heres a couple of pics for reference:

The left photo here (ignore the right one, I just didnt feel like trimming it off right now) was taken a week or 2 before the BodPod results shown from 2/29/2020, which shows BW 257.3, Fat mass 64.4lbs and lean mass 192.9 lbs, for a total of 25% BF.




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bodpod feb 29 20201512×2016 1.1 MB


This second photo was taken yesterday after the BodPod results, dated 3/26/2021, which shows 247.8 lbs (10 lbs less than previous bodpod), fat mass of 41.5 lbs (23 lbs less than previous) and lean mass of 206.3 (13.4 lbs more than previous). Regardless of TRUE BF%, this shows a 23 lbs swing over a year (10 lbs less BW but 13.4 lbs more lean mass)




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[malfeasance]

Definitely looking a little leaner!

 

[wsmwannabe]

Day 27 Update:
Ok, so I think 280 mg/wk Tren ace is a good place to be for a first cycle. Admittedly I am starting to feel a little more of the mood sides at this dose, but it is controllable. I do not feel numb or detached, but more aggravated/irritable, however this is not 100% of the time either. Strength gains are starting to come along also. The only thing I am unsure of is if it’s the tren working or the increased test… or both. My next blast may be test only to see if these gains I am making are the same with or without 19-nors.

I pulled 540 on an axle Saturday afternoon for a smooth, RPE 8-8.5 single. Watching a video from last October I pulled 551on a deadlift bar with the same amount of effort. So after having fallen off for about 3 months in between then and now due to an eye injury, I think I am progressing really well. On comp day in early May I could pull close to 600 on an axle, which is about the equivalent of 640-650 on a deadlift bar. And that would SMASH my current PR of 585 set back last May.

Getting a little into the weeds here, I think the last piece of the puzzle for my deadlift is learning how to pull back and up, not just up. I am working on that now with front banded deadlifts and it seems to be helping.

I am up to 250 after the weekend, but it is pretty typical for me to gain 3-4 lbs of water over the weekend from cheating/refeeding. As long as I stick to the plan for the week I should be down to 244.5 by Friday morning.

 

[wsmwannabe]

Day 28 Update:

4 weeks in, nothing bad to report. Daily blood pressure measuring, daily morning weigh-ins, lifting progress, and increased athletic ability all show good progress. Even my (shit) progress photos show that I am leaning out, regardless of BF%. No chest pains, which I have had in the past… when I was a young dumb US Marine. They used to sell oral steroids at the GNC on base, so I thought they were harmless and legal. I would take that stuff and I remember having heart pains. But I didn’t know what caused it, nor did I care that my heart was hurting. I haven’t had heart pains since then (about 10 years ago) so I am not concerned with it.

I see more tren cycles in my future… most likely tren e next time though, simply to avoid daily pinning. And that will likely come after my test only blast that I mentioned previously. While I am not entirely sure if the tren is increasing strength, it is, without a doubt, increasing my ability to recover.

Another area of improvement is my athletic ability/explosiveness, which is very hard to measure short of watching videos for timing purposes. I do feel much more explosive and quicker with moving events, such as my sandbag/keg/sandbag medley. I was thinking about this earlier. I know that I am well beyond seeing massive strength gains from a single cycle (unless I blast grams of gear) but the athletic gains are still coming at this dose.

I keep thinking about increasing my dose up to 315-350/wk (with the extra vial I bought I could bump it up to this). I know I said 280/wk was the max I would run for a first cycle, but honestly it’s going so much better than I expected (with respect to sides), if y’all think I am being crazy or stupid, help me out here and let me know. I really think I would be fine to do so, but sometimes I need people to keep me in check as well.

O yea, and I hit 365 for 3 on viking press last night, and I hit 15 reps in one minute at competition weight (300 lbs) after my top triple. So viking press is coming along VERY nicely. I think 20 reps is a sure winner in that event.

 

[MFAAS]

@wsmwannabe do you really think you need the TUDCA on just test / tren / anavar? Anavar is pretty easy on the liver, I wouldn't think TUDCA would be needed with those substances and doses... just a thought...

 

[wsmwannabe]

@wsmwannabe do you really think you need the TUDCA on just test / tren / anavar? Anavar is pretty easy on the liver, I wouldn't think TUDCA would be needed with those substances and doses... just a thought...

Yes, I think my liver HATES my AI. I am taking .25mg anastrazole 2x/wk. I start getting abdominal pain when I do not take the TUDCA, but I feel completely fine when I am taking TUDCA with the AI or when I am not taking an AI (and no TUDCA either). This could be a "me" thing though.

 

[wsmwannabe]

Day 30 Update:

I tried out the makeshift HRR test using a treadmill and its heart rate monitor. My heart rate recovered from 145 to 127 after the first minute but only to 122 after the second minute, 21 BPM total. In retrospect, I can definitely tell the days where my heart rate recovers faster and when it recovers slower. I have just always written it off as good and bad days with respect to allergies and asthma.

Last nights training session went really well… so well that I quit half-way through the workout. I got all of my event work done, and I performed VERY well, but I was so gassed from this cut that I was done after that and skipped 3 of my last 4 accessories.

Started with hatfield squats. I hit 530 for an easy 3, like RPE6-ish. I was supposed to do a top triple at RPE 9 (which I think 580 was there) but I started feeling it in my hip/low back and just moved on to my event work.

Next was yoke runs with sled drags. I only loaded 335 onto the yoke and ran it 50 feet, dragging a sled behind me that was about 90 lbs, on rubber mats. This isn’t intended to be hard, it is intended to teach me how to drive with my hips, and make me a faster yoke runner. And it’s working very well.

Finally I performed my sandbag/keg/sandbag load medley, at competition weight, for 3 runs. This fucked me up, in both good and bad ways. 200lb sandbag pick up and carry 50’, load over 50" bar, 250 lb keg pick up and carry 25’ and load, and a 300 lb sandbag pick up and carry 10’ and load. In the 3 runs it was 28s, 26s, and 26s. This isn’t breakneck speed, but it’s pretty fast. If I can be a little more efficient and get into the 22-23 second range, I think I could win this event.

After each run I had a mild to moderate asthma attack though, my rescue inhaler barely helped me. I have to figure a better way of getting my asthma under control, because right now it isn’t very well controlled, and like I mentioned above with the HRR, some days it’s better than others, but I never really know what causes it to be better or worse.

 

[malfeasance]

I tried out the makeshift HRR test using a treadmill and its heart rate monitor. My heart rate recovered from 145 to 127 after the first minute but only to 122 after the second minute, 21 BPM total. In retrospect, I can definitely tell the days where my heart rate recovers faster and when it recovers slower. I have just always written it off as good and bad days with respect to allergies and asthma.

Can you explain this or give more information?

 

[wsmwannabe]

Can you explain this or give more information?

Opinion | Heart Rate Recovery: Powerful Prognosticator Now on Apple Watch

The Skeptical Cardiologist charts the route to a 'wake-up call'

www.medpagetoday.com

This was a study that was brought to my attention on another forum about the rate at which your heart rate returns to normal levels after cessation of exercise. The subjects exercised to create an elevated heart rate, their heart rate was measured at the end of exercise, then they were immediately put onto a treadmill walking 1.5 mph on a 2.5% incline. Their heart rate was measure after 60s and 120s of stopping the vigorous exercise.

I don't remember all of the details, but essentially it was found that your heart rate should decrease a minimum of 13 bpm after 1 minute and 22 bpm (total) after 2 minutes. If it decreases by this much or more, then you have a healthy heart, however if it decreases less than this amount, you could have a heart condition and likelihood of death within 5 years is much higher (I felt this portion was a little dramatic, but could still prove useful in measuring heart health). And being on AAS (especially tren) I wanted to give it a shot and see how my HRR looked.

 

[deepsouthiron]

You may have posted this earlier but are you planning on dropping out the tren before the competition? The cardio impact tren has is significant even if you have adapted at this point. I guess I’m asking if you can drop the tren out for performance (speed and endurance) gains and maybe add in halo or Drol in its place to not lose any strength

 

[wsmwannabe]

You may have posted this earlier but are you planning on dropping out the tren before the competition? The cardio impact tren has is significant even if you have adapted at this point. I guess I’m asking if you can drop the tren out for performance (speed and endurance) gains and maybe add in halo or Drol in its place to not lose any strength

I hadn't considered that in the slightest to be honest. The events are spaced far enough apart and there're likely only two events that are going to really challenge my breathing capacity. The carry and load medley, but that's only 30 seconds at most, based on my times I ran Wednesday night, and the stone load over bar, which is 60s. By the time the competition comes around, I'll be conditioned well enough that I am not worried about it.

If I was cycling or boxing, it would be a completely different story though. My gym sessions are usually more taxing than the competitions (with respect to both weight and conditioning), which is exactly how you want it to be.

 

[wsmwannabe]

Day 31 Update:

Last night’s training session was a REALLY good one. After Wednesday’s workout just slaughtering me, I still managed to recover, rehab, and refeed enough to have a killer workout last night.

I pulled 586 on an axle for an RPE 9 single. This is an all time deadlift PR for me (by 1 lb haha) but to hit this on an axle tells me there is hope for my poverty deadlift after all. This was after a single at 491 and at 561.

The deadlift was first and the very last thing I did was a 6x2 on stones. It was supposed to be a 6x2 with the 340, but I only hit 2x2 with the 340 and had to drop down to the 300 lb stone for the other 4x2. This was all with 30s rest between sets, which is killer for an asthmatic lol. But it is the highest capacity working set I have ever performed with stones, even after hitting a huge deadlift.

Unfortunately, sleep didn’t come easy last night because I was so fatigued and sore from the workout. But some other good news is that the indigestion I was getting had to have been from the addition of the oxandrolone. The last 2 nights I have eaten off diet and have had zero indigestion issues.

 

[Jagger34]

Good log man, I've enjoyed reading and seeing your progress. You have leaned up quite a bit and hitting PRs is also a bonus, despite not really going crazy with the gear amounts.

You mentioned that you wouldn't expect crazy strength gains unless you were blasting grams of gear, but tren is really great at lower doses (though I would still have done more than the dose you are taking). My first run of Tren A was 350 mg/week (along with 350 mg test as well) and I put about 40 lbs on my deadlift in 12 weeks while losing about 25 pounds bodyweight and leaning out significantly.

Like you, I carry a disproportionate amount of my fat in my midsection, which obviously sucks. A lot of my fat is visceral as well so my skinfold BF measurements tend to make me seem leaner than I actually am. When I got my BodPod done after that tren cycle it showed me at 17.1% BF but the calipers (done by my wife who was a PT at the time and had done them hundreds of times of experience) showed 13.1%, so pretty significant disconnect. Do you have a similar discrepancy?

Finally, I feel that the few times I've used tren has helped improve my mood as well. Kinda weird that you and I have similar experiences that seem at odds with a lot of other peoples'.

Anyways man, I am hopping back on tren and test (500 mg and 250 mg of each per week, respectively) here in a few weeks for a major fat loss cycle (adding in T3 & Clen as well), so pretty excited!

 

[wsmwannabe]

Good log man, I've enjoyed reading and seeing your progress. You have leaned up quite a bit and hitting PRs is also a bonus, despite not really going crazy with the gear amounts.

You mentioned that you wouldn't expect crazy strength gains unless you were blasting grams of gear, but tren is really great at lower doses (though I would still have done more than the dose you are taking). My first run of Tren A was 350 mg/week (along with 350 mg test as well) and I put about 40 lbs on my deadlift in 12 weeks while losing about 25 pounds bodyweight and leaning out significantly.

Like you, I carry a disproportionate amount of my fat in my midsection, which obviously sucks. A lot of my fat is visceral as well so my skinfold BF measurements tend to make me seem leaner than I actually am. When I got my BodPod done after that tren cycle it showed me at 17.1% BF but the calipers (done by my wife who was a PT at the time and had done them hundreds of times of experience) showed 13.1%, so pretty significant disconnect. Do you have a similar discrepancy?

Finally, I feel that the few times I've used tren has helped improve my mood as well. Kinda weird that you and I have similar experiences that seem at odds with a lot of other peoples'.

Anyways man, I am hopping back on tren and test (500 mg and 250 mg of each per week, respectively) here in a few weeks for a major fat loss cycle (adding in T3 & Clen as well), so pretty excited!

Thanks, I am trying to be as detailed, open and honest as I can about things so that others can possibly learn from my mistakes or good decisions.

What I meant about not being able to add a ton of weight to my lifts is that I am an advanced enough lifter that it's not very likely that I will see any of my lifts shoot up A LOT in one cycle. I see younger lifter claiming to put on 80-100 lbs on lifts sometimes, that just won't happen for me at this point. I have added quite a bit of weight to my deadlift on this cycle, but I was already making good gains before the cycle started and (more importantly) I am finally figuring out my deadlift technique which is making a huge difference in my sticking point.

I have not had calipers done in a long time, but the one time I did have it done, I think I registered something like 16%BF, but I looked a lot more like the photo in which I had 25% BF.

Good luck on your next cycle. I take it you prefer low test high tren? I started way too low when I started tren, I thought for sure that 175 mg/wk I would've felt something but I didn't really start feeling it until I hit 245 mg/wk. and by "feeling it" I am referring to feeling it in my workout and recovery, not with side effects.

 

[malfeasance]

Like you, I carry a disproportionate amount of my fat in my midsection, which obviously sucks. A lot of my fat is visceral as well so my skinfold BF measurements tend to make me seem leaner than I actually am. When I got my BodPod done after that tren cycle it showed me at 17.1% BF but the calipers (done by my wife who was a PT at the time and had done them hundreds of times of experience) showed 13.1%, so pretty significant disconnect. Do you have a similar discrepancy?

That's because calipers are less accurate than guessing and always show lower body fat.

Reliability of skinfold calipers as a tool for measuring body fat in human beings - PubMed

Triceps skinfold thickness measured in ten adults aged 19 to 50 yr by a Holtain skinfold caliper, was compared with subcutaneous fat thickness obtained on cross-sections of the left upper arm by computerized axial tomography (CAT). The thickness of subcutaneous fat was measured on CAT scan film...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

21%-45% lower body fat on just upper arm as compared to CAT scan.

and

Comparison of Techniques for Tracking Body Composition Changes across a Season in College Women Basketball Players

Body composition assessment has become an integral part of athletes’ training schedules. Questions remain concerning the accuracy of various methods to track body composition changes over a competitive year cycle. The purpose of this study was ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Even though the same experienced tester performed all SKF measurements in the current study, tracking patterns for SKF prediction equations (Figure 2) as well as sum of SKF (Figure 4) showed a dissimilar pattern to DXA."

SKF = calipers
DXA = Dexa scan

In other words, the experienced tester could not even correlate with Dexa scan on the same subjects at different points in time.

It's gimmicky bullshit.

Bod pod is at least scientifically based. I would rely on that measurement, not calipers, no matter how much you trust your wife and really, really want to believe that there is some validity to what she is doing.

The error rate for skin caliper measurement is so wide that it makes it practically useless.

 

[Jagger34]

That's because calipers are less accurate than guessing and always show lower body fat.

Reliability of skinfold calipers as a tool for measuring body fat in human beings - PubMed

Triceps skinfold thickness measured in ten adults aged 19 to 50 yr by a Holtain skinfold caliper, was compared with subcutaneous fat thickness obtained on cross-sections of the left upper arm by computerized axial tomography (CAT). The thickness of subcutaneous fat was measured on CAT scan film...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

21%-45% lower body fat on just upper arm as compared to CAT scan.

and

Comparison of Techniques for Tracking Body Composition Changes across a Season in College Women Basketball Players

Body composition assessment has become an integral part of athletes’ training schedules. Questions remain concerning the accuracy of various methods to track body composition changes over a competitive year cycle. The purpose of this study was ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Even though the same experienced tester performed all SKF measurements in the current study, tracking patterns for SKF prediction equations (Figure 2) as well as sum of SKF (Figure 4) showed a dissimilar pattern to DXA."

SKF = calipers
DXA = Dexa scan

In other words, the experienced tester could not even correlate with Dexa scan on the same subjects at different points in time.

It's gimmicky bullshit.

Bod pod is at least scientifically based. I would rely on that measurement, not calipers, no matter how much you trust your wife and really, really want to believe that there is some validity to what she is doing.

The error rate for skin caliper measurement is so wide that it makes it practically useless.

Interesting, I have been a bit disconnected for a long time and didn't realize the literature out there on this. It makes sense though, especially since at the end of the day you are using a formula that is created from a large population which we are obviously not.

I don't think caliper readings are completely useless though. I don't use them for determining my actual bodyfat as much as I do for tracking progress. If the total measurement (taken across three measurements at each of the seven sites and then averaged) is going down, then that is an objective measure of fat loss. They are pretty consistent in that regard.

 

[wsmwannabe]

Day 35 Update:

Well yesterday at the gym was humbling. After the workouts from last Wednesday and last Friday, I was still trashed. I thought I was fine going into yesterday’s workout, but once I started moving weight it was a different story. I had viking press yesterday. Last week I hit my top triple at 365, and yesterday I couldn’t hardly budge 325 even for a single. This test/tren/oxandrolone cycle has been really good for me, but at some point during a peak, the training always catches up. I slept well Saturday night, took a 3 hour nap on Sunday and slept well Sunday night and still I was beat Monday. I think it has to do with the taxing training combined with the weight cut. I actually increased my calories by about 150/day, so I am at about a 550 cal deficit instead of 700. My body is fighting me hard on dropping weight. I started at 249, got down to 246 last Thursday morning, and woke up at 251.6 yesterday morning haha. I know it’s all water weight though, I was back down to 248.2 this morning, and if I am diligent I should be around 244-245 on Friday morning.

I really am not dealing with anything with respect to sides, even 5 weeks in. The indigestion I think was largely caused by the addition of the oxandrolone, but once my body got used to it, the indigestion went away. I have dealt with intermittent night sweats (maybe 2 times in 5 weeks), but I have had much worse night sweats just from test only cycles, so I’m not really worried about it.

Blood pressure and HRR are still checking out just fine. No issues with “decreased cardio”. I have gotten 4 bouts of tren cough, one legit bout and 3 bouts of just a a little more than having to clear my throat.

Insomnia is still not an issue. I can sleep pretty much 7 hours a night, but after that it does get a little hard to fall back asleep. I am getting stronger and leaning out still. Also no issues with libido or ED. I think it is safe to say I will not be dealing with tren sides and next time I’ll run tren E. I am not trying to pretend it is safe, but at the very least it hasn’t been immediately detrimental to my health.

 

[Eman]

So I just got a 3rd vial of tren today, since I bumped it up I had to get a 3rd vial.

I don’t think this is against the rules to post this pic since I have the labels marked out, but I have to ask: Why is one vial brown and one vial yellow? The first two vials I got were brown and the one I just got in the mail is yellow. Both vials are tren ace

One is more oxidized than the other. It may have been hit with more heat or the raws exposed to more oxygen.

Also, you can post pictures of the labels and the vials.. it's not breaking any rules. Really, the only rule here is not to threaten anyone's security, safety or life... That's about it.

 

[wsmwannabe]

One is more oxidized than the other. It may have been hit with more heat or the raws exposed to more oxygen.

Also, you can post pictures of the labels and the vials.. it's not breaking any rules. Really, the only rule here is not to threaten anyone's security, safety or life... That's about it.

I am using that lighter colored vial currently, and I would imagine it has the same potency as the darker colored one based on my performance in the gym. Also, most of these updates are copied and pasted from another AAS forum that doesn't allow sources, but thanks for the heads up!

 

[grey]

Really, the only rule here is not to threaten anyone's security, safety or life... That's about it.

Also, no posting hardcore gay porn action gifs into a bad sources thread... Makes me sad.

@wsmwannabe You can also read Tren's "decrease in cardio" side effect as "diminished work capacity" which seems likely to be working in conjunction with your cut to start impacting your workouts as you just mentioned.


Just a thought. Enjoying your log.